Position battle - LB

[Alex_Dynamix]

You don't need "play makers" at Linebacker. You need guys who study film relentlessly, can process information, make accurate reads, get us lined-up, make the right checks and play violent.

You're not making any plays at Linebacker if you can't do those things.

BINGO

 

[grover]

Chase Smith and Mo Toure will be the best starting LB tandem in the ACC and top 5-7 in the nation.

I would have said the same based on my game observations from end of last season and Mario's hyping them up this camp.

But then @Brooklyndee discussed their limitations in the passing game and the fact Bain and Mesi funneled runners to them with elite edge setting. Now I'm not sure what to think.

My eyes tell me they both play at roughly the Kiko / Shaq level to me., which when taken together is a **** good pairing. But now I'm worried I'm not reading the field correctly.

 

[Hstokes1447]

I would have said the same based on my game observations from end of last season and Mario's hyping them up this camp.

But then @Brooklyndee discussed their limitations in the passing game and the fact Bain and Mesi funneled runners to them with elite edge setting. Now I'm not sure what to think.

My eyes tell me they both play at roughly the Kiko / Shaq level to me., which when taken together is a **** good pairing. But now I'm worried I'm not reading the field correctly.

Heatherman didn’t have Bain and Mesidor setting the edge at Minnesota and he had a top 5 defense. The thought that this defense will not be able to set the edge is laughable.

 

[Calinative]

I'm glad you brought him up...
Because he's being drafted high for the same reason that we all want to see Wiley play...

Physical traits.

But when it came time to fill the A-gap all those impressive physical traits were null and void. All that spreed, length and "play maker" ability goes out the window when an offense lines-up and runs the ball down your throat.
I'm sure if we would've ran the ball in the perimeter Styles would've looked phenomenal. (as would Wiley)
But the truth is, Linebacker (more often than not) requires you to diagnose blocking schemes, stack-and-shed O-linemen, track the ball and stick your face in the fan.

Those things take priority over being able to cover.

There's just so many nuances to the Linebacker position, that you can't stick a kid out there because he LOOKS good.

Lmao Styles was 100% a 1st round LB before he did a single combine drill. He had an excellent season at LB, far superior than anything any LB we've had in like a decade have done. Like he's being drafted high cause he's got it all... Not just cause he's athletic. He may go top 10 at a devalued position and position that is one of the most difficult to produce early in the NFL at because he's such an elite athlete though ... But the production and quality of play is unquestioned.

Wow he missed one tackle against Mark Fletcher in the A gap...come on now

 

[Calinative]

You are going to die on this hill I see lol. I guarantee you Smith and Toure will be the best starting linebackers in the ACC this season.

The mighty ACC! We will have the best starting and backups units across the board in the ACC by talent. So that's meaningless to me.

 

[skyman]

Heatherman didn’t have Bain and Mesidor setting the edge at Minnesota and he had a top 5 defense. The thought that this defense will not be able to set the edge is laughable.

The setting the edge thing is hilarious lol..

 

[Hstokes1447]

The setting the edge thing is hilarious lol..

It really is lol every season CIS creates a new boogie man, last season Miami’s didn’t have the DTs to stop the run now this season Miami’s doesn’t have the DEs to set the edge and stop the run

 

[Trav]

The mighty ACC! We will have the best starting and backups units across the board in the ACC by talent. So that's meaningless to me.

It means something if you want to win all your ACC games.

 

[Calinative]

It means something if you want to win all your ACC games.

Having the best LBs in the ACC means something to winning all your ACC games? Wonder why Pitt didn't then

 

[Brooklyndee]

I would have said the same based on my game observations from end of last season and Mario's hyping them up this camp.

But then @Brooklyndee discussed their limitations in the passing game and the fact Bain and Mesi funneled runners to them with elite edge setting. Now I'm not sure what to think.

My eyes tell me they both play at roughly the Kiko / Shaq level to me., which when taken together is a **** good pairing. But now I'm worried I'm not reading the field correctly.

Ok just look at it like this then. Kiko and shaq were essentially the same player. They had their strengths and they had their weaknesses. Now imagine they are both playing on the same team and right next to each other. In kiko case he played on a team the defense as a whole was lacking. The linebacker unit was pretty basic so I won't make an example. But in shaqs case look how often Mike was playing fast and free to clean things up. When Mike got hurt how did the comments go? All the complaints about zach started. All the complaints about shaqs limitations started. They worked in tandem. They were exposed singularly. You need people around you who complement your skill set with their own. Not mirror it. But hey. Let's see how it plays out. Like I said, with this schedule being such cup cakes were very lucky cause we get a lot of time to get cohesion out of a lot of new players. Offensive line, edge and backers get **** near a whole season to learn the people around them and be in peak form come the playoffs.

 

[Brooklyndee]

It really is lol every season CIS creates a new boogie man, last season Miami’s didn’t have the DTs to stop the run now this season Miami’s doesn’t have the DEs to set the edge and stop the run

All you've just pointed out is that most people on here struggle with what they see. All you're now pointing out if you don't think a starting unit of ends being Lightfoot and wilson are cause for concern with doing their part in the running game is youre one of them. Wilson was on a good unit at mizzou but he was entirely committed to getting after the QB and was a liability in the run game. Lightfoot is essentially the same player. Now that doesn't mean they can't be utilized in the run game if they change their approach a lil. But it does mean what we've seen previously is alarming. Other than clemson, & Notre lame possibly vt no one we play regular season can expose it though.

 

[Brooklyndee]

I'm glad you brought him up...
Because he's being drafted high for the same reason that we all want to see Wiley play...

Physical traits.

But when it came time to fill the A-gap all those impressive physical traits were null and void. All that spreed, length and "play maker" ability goes out the window when an offense lines-up and runs the ball down your throat.
I'm sure if we would've ran the ball in the perimeter Styles would've looked phenomenal. (as would Wiley)
But the truth is, Linebacker (more often than not) requires you to diagnose blocking schemes, stack-and-shed O-linemen, track the ball and stick your face in the fan.

Those things take priority over being able to cover.

There's just so many nuances to the Linebacker position, that you can't stick a kid out there because he LOOKS good.

Brother you got to cut this out. Now you're just feeding the animals. Most of these dudes aren't capable (at least their comments make it seem that way) of understanding contexts and nuances. It's a given if teams were stupid enough against us to simply say okay I'm going to run the ball exclusively right down your throat right into the middle of the strength of your defense which I'm pretty sure you and I understand is our defensive tackles not our edges that we have the perfect linebackers in those instances playing. We have linebackers if Moe and Chase start that are made to play inside the box. Do you think opposing offenses don't know that? Obviously they do they have film they understand our strengths they understand our weaknesses. I'd say most here don't realize offenses aren't going to run the ball right at us they're going to go off tackle they're going to go tosses they're going to go sweeps and that is where we will struggle when we have two edge players that were liabilities previously in the running game and with two linebackers that don't have the speed or the length to get outside in time All that means is we're giving up four to seven yards a carry. That's not a recipe to win. We're just very fortunate we're not playing anybody that can really expose us except several times this season. When you factor in our offense is going to be explosive and capable of putting up points on anyone there's far less concern. But it doesn't change the facts we can't have our linebackers carbon copies of each other if we don't have edges who take responsibility off of them.

 

[Alex_Dynamix]

Heatherman didn’t have Bain and Mesidor setting the edge at Minnesota and he had a top 5 defense. The thought that this defense will not be able to set the edge is laughable.

I for the life of me can’t understand how these same posters watched how locked In Our d was last year under Heatherman and still think they know better then him on who should start **** is laughable indeed. Last year it was Mesidor & Bissainthe who should be benched smh

I'm glad you brought him up...
Because he's being drafted high for the same reason that we all want to see Wiley play...

Physical traits.

But when it came time to fill the A-gap all those impressive physical traits were null and void. All that spreed, length and "play maker" ability goes out the window when an offense lines-up and runs the ball down your throat.
I'm sure if we would've ran the ball in the perimeter Styles would've looked phenomenal. (as would Wiley)
But the truth is, Linebacker (more often than not) requires you to diagnose blocking schemes, stack-and-shed O-linemen, track the ball and stick your face in the fan.

Those things take priority over being able to cover.

There's just so many nuances to the Linebacker position, that you can't stick a kid out there because he LOOKS good.

 

[Swampcity]

Do you go with the veteran that’s got some wear and tear, but might actually be in the best shape of his life right now, rocking #9… basically a new Chase Smith?


Or do you roll with what might be the best linebacker prospect we’ve had in years—highest ceiling, real potential to be special?


Safe, proven presence vs. upside that could completely change the defense. What are you taking?

You start with Smith. His experience means something. You bring in the highly prized athlete methodically. When his overall talent and performance demands that he start - that's when he starts.

 

[Calinative]

It really is lol every season CIS creates a new boogie man, last season Miami’s didn’t have the DTs to stop the run now this season Miami’s doesn’t have the DEs to set the edge and stop the run

Are you smoking crack?lol

Bain was an ELITE Run D edge. Mesidor was great in that dept too. And. It’s were Elite pass rushers last season. They did it all at an elite level. And both are gunna be 1st rounders.

The Edges we have that fit the SDE mold are Blount, Scroggins, and Lowe. Which of these guys is as good as Bain in stopping the run today?

Damon Wilson, Lightfoot, and Pickett are WDEs and very light. Do I think they’ll be a liability? No. But which of these guys is as good as Mesidor in stopping the run? I think it’s possible those 3 can in total be as effective rushing the passer, but clearly the question is Run D

Do I trust Heatherman to scheme with what we have an still be great in RunD dept? Yes I do. But to act like saying Edge and SDE in particular and how our Edges will set the edge against the run is a make believe boogeyman is pure insanity. It makes perfect sense why that is the current question.

Btw I was the one going the hardest clowning people for trashing our DLine last yr lol. But this yr we CAN Be Elite. But there ARE questions with the edges. Entering last year the only questions were the DTs and whether Scott would step up

 

[RF-4CCane]

Heatherman didn’t have Bain and Mesidor setting the edge at Minnesota and he had a top 5 defense. The thought that this defense will not be able to set the edge is laughable.

Perhaps because Heatherman had a LB’er at Minnesota with 94 tackles and 5 TFL in 2024.

Smith had 31 tackles and 0 TFL last year.

 

[SinisterCane]

You start with Smith. His experience means something. You bring in the highly prized athlete methodically. When his overall talent and performance demands that he start - that's when he starts.

That will never happen in Miami, alex bauman was the worst tied in the history UM and kept on playing

 

[SinisterCane]

Are you smoking crack?lol

Bain was an ELITE Run D edge. Mesidor was great in that dept too. And. It’s were Elite pass rushers last season. They did it all at an elite level. And both are gunna be 1st rounders.

The Edges we have that fit the SDE mold are Blount, Scroggins, and Lowe. Which of these guys is as good as Bain in stopping the run today?

Damon Wilson, Lightfoot, and Pickett are WDEs and very light. Do I think they’ll be a liability? No. But which of these guys is as good as Mesidor in stopping the run? I think it’s possible those 3 can in total be as effective rushing the passer, but clearly the question is Run D

Do I trust Heatherman to scheme with what we have an still be great in RunD dept? Yes I do. But to act like saying Edge and SDE in particular and how our Edges will set the edge against the run is a make believe boogeyman is pure insanity. It makes perfect sense why that is the current question.

Btw I was the one going the hardest clowning people for trashing our DLine last yr lol. But this yr we CAN Be Elite. But there ARE questions with the edges. Entering last year the only questions were the DTs and whether Scott would step up

This year‘s defense ain’t last year‘s defense and we better hope the D line can keep these two linebackers clean

 

[Hstokes1447]

Perhaps because Heatherman had a LB’er at Minnesota with 94 tackles and 5 TFL in 2024.

Smith had 31 tackles and 0 TFL last year.

Smith also did not start. However the guy who started over him Wesley Bissainthe was named 3rd team All-ACC, the same Wesley Bissainthe who this time last year was being called mid on CIS lol.

 

[Hstokes1447]

Are you smoking crack?lol

Bain was an ELITE Run D edge. Mesidor was great in that dept too. And. It’s were Elite pass rushers last season. They did it all at an elite level. And both are gunna be 1st rounders.

The Edges we have that fit the SDE mold are Blount, Scroggins, and Lowe. Which of these guys is as good as Bain in stopping the run today?

Damon Wilson, Lightfoot, and Pickett are WDEs and very light. Do I think they’ll be a liability? No. But which of these guys is as good as Mesidor in stopping the run? I think it’s possible those 3 can in total be as effective rushing the passer, but clearly the question is Run D

Do I trust Heatherman to scheme with what we have an still be great in RunD dept? Yes I do. But to act like saying Edge and SDE in particular and how our Edges will set the edge against the run is a make believe boogeyman is pure insanity. It makes perfect sense why that is the current question.

Btw I was the one going the hardest clowning people for trashing our DLine last yr lol. But this yr we CAN Be Elite. But there ARE questions with the edges. Entering last year the only questions were the DTs and whether Scott would step up

Brother, it’s called development. Every argument you’re making is based entirely on past performance without ever considering that players can improve, get bigger, get stronger, and continue to grow. I understand past performance is what you have to evaluate, but locking a developing college player into what he was yesterday is just silly. Every season across college football, players break out and reach levels they’ve never shown before.

The scheme itself also doesn’t allow for many big gash runs to the edge. That’s why the smaller edge defender in this system lines up to the boundary. Being closer to the sideline essentially gives you an extra defender and shortens the field, allowing help to flow to the ball faster. Also, go back and watch Akheem Mesidor on run plays he often gave up the edge by design within the defense. The boundary edge in this scheme is not used as a pure edge setter. He is more of a disrupter that stunts and blitzes work off of.