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Playing in space

GhostofVenice01 said:
I got into it with a mouthbreather on facebook who said it wasnt on the coaches to teach tackling, that they should of been taught how to tackle in pop warner and wouldnt of made it this far if they didnt know how to
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There's a guy on this very board who claims that our coaches had to teach our DB's that it's a good idea to look for the ball. Says the skeem is so simple that players in South Florida are too dumb to know to look for the ball. Our poor coaches, being saddled with these dumb south florida players.
 
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Bicho said:
Scheme or players miami is awful at playing defense in space. They miss tackles left and right and 1 yard gains turn to 6 yard gains and 5 yard gains have turned to 10 yard Gains way to often the last 4 years.

The coaches deserve blame, period.

BUT to keep showing screenshots of how the defense lines up against the spread may be unfair. watching Nebraska line up on D they don't have any more in the box than miami.

With superior athleticism the biggest difference in the game last week between the 2 teams was tackling in space.

I wonder what would have happened if our linebackers were Eddie Johnson, paul, and do 52 rather than what we are putting out there there right now.

I still agree there is a big coaching issue too regardless.
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Nebraska didn't put any more people in the box bc we attack mostly through the air. also Nebraska's defense did not play well, so i wouldn't use the as a reason for why Miami shouldn't load the box against a running team.
 
What I took from the game was that they try to create a bit more space between the DL and LBs to allow the LBs better vision,and to gain another step to attack downhill. We just do not do it, I don't think we read the plays fast enough. That is why all of our players look like they are thinking instead of playing. I am not a coach or anything, but I think we need to dumb down the keys a bit....

As for the spread offense, I have always thought that it was about forcing defenses to play in space and to stop the gang tackling, think about it... thats why the wr screens come on first down, they are the EASY 3-5 yards unless your WR completely blows it on the initial block. It creates a 1v1 that is very winnable for at the very least 3-5 yards, and if the D misses a tackle it quickly turns into 10-15 because the DL and LBs are so far away.

The more I watch the D the more I understand it, sure some of it seems completely retarded, but I think they put the LB,s out wider than the Cbs on some plays is to deter them from taking the easy screen play for a big gain. I think the idea by having the safeties deep is so they can come up with more speed and force to make the stops. I just feel like they too are thinking too much and no playing. I think its a situation where this D is so different from everything they have ever known that it really puts players behind the 8 ball. And its the reason so many players take so long to adjust to playing it.

None of this exonerates the staffs shortcomings. I am just saying I can see what they are trying to do and it seems like it would work. However, at a point you need to honestly asses the situation and make the necessary changes. Which for a coach is usually very difficult. Because you know what you were taught and you know it can work if done properly... But I think we all can agree its time for a change in defensive philosophy, because the results are just not there and the sample size is plenty big enough...
 
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frostycane said:
What I took from the game was that they try to create a bit more space between the DL and LBs to allow the LBs better vision,and to gain another step to attack downhill. We just do not do it, I don't think we read the plays fast enough. That is why all of our players look like they are thinking instead of playing. I am not a coach or anything, but I think we need to dumb down the keys a bit....

As for the spread offense, I have always thought that it was about forcing defenses to play in space and to stop the gang tackling, think about it... thats why the wr screens come on first down, they are the EASY 3-5 yards unless your WR completely blows it on the initial block. It creates a 1v1 that is very winnable for at the very least 3-5 yards, and if the D misses a tackle it quickly turns into 10-15 because the DL and LBs are so far away.

The more I watch the D the more I understand it, sure some of it seems completely retarded, but I think they put the LB,s out wider than the Cbs on some plays is to deter them from taking the easy screen play for a big gain. I think the idea by having the safeties deep is so they can come up with more speed and force to make the stops. I just feel like they too are thinking too much and no playing. I think its a situation where this D is so different from everything they have ever known that it really puts players behind the 8 ball. And its the reason so many players take so long to adjust to playing it.

None of this exonerates the staffs shortcomings. I am just saying I can see what they are trying to do and it seems like it would work. However, at a point you need to honestly asses the situation and make the necessary changes. Which for a coach is usually very difficult. Because you know what you were taught and you know it can work if done properly... But I think we all can agree its time for a change in defensive philosophy, because the results are just not there and the sample size is plenty big enough...
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The problem is we create the space through our alignments and what we ask people to do. It's much harder to tackle a running back one one when he has 5-7 yards to get going vs. making him make a move right as he gets the handoff. That's the fundemental problem with our defense, we are asking guys to consistently make insane tackles.
 
Well, if the DL isn't getting their **** pushed in then its not as far back.....The guy said it the other night, they do a good job initially but they do not get off their blocks at ALL! I get what your saying but in the first quarter we were doing fairly well against Nebraska and same with Louisville. If you watch carefully you can actually see guys start to try to freelance to make a big play, and then the RB bounces it outside and gone for 15.... I actually felt like we were trying to force everything outside so the safeties could come up, they just never really came...lol Because the WR were bouncing off the cb's and chipping them. They were forcing our CBs to play run defense and they totally sucked in my opinion. Burns, Howard, Elder(made one nice play) Gunter, A.Crawford those guys are/were terrible in run support against Nebraska. And its not like their coverage was amazing either...
 
Bicho said:
I'm not blaming the players because after 4 years it's time to **** or get off the pot.

But I don't think stuffing the box by itself fixes things.
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I agree, I'm not an advocate for stuffing the box.

But you need to at least even up the numbers there. There is absolutely no reason you should be out-numbered by blockers/threats within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. That's a recipe for disaster (or in our case, +300yds rushing per game).

If they have 5 OL, 1 TE, and the QB/RB in the shotgun for the option....DON'T HAVE 5 5 ******* GUYS NEAR THE LOS AND TWO GUYS LINED UP IN NO-MANS' LAND!
 
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Everything works in theory. Application is what matters. 4th year it clearly hasnt. No one is questioning whether these guys know football or what have you. But they seem to be trying to invent the wheel here. Instead of of just doing the simplest of things and motivating the players to just go out there and dominate with their athleticism. We shouldn't have to scheme to stop 90% of the teams we play. The best way to stop any offense is to disrupt the play in the backfield, run or pass. Nothing gets going if it's blown up in the backfield. It's that simple to me. Worrying about space and tackling is all after the fact imo
 
Can you teach better tackling? Yes.

Can you teach a guy to put himself in a gap with a 230 pound RB coming at him at full speed? Yes, but it's a lot more difficult. Too many guys look like they shy away from contact. Maybe that's weak practices, maybe that's bad recruiting.
 
ajkreider said:
Can you teach better tackling? Yes.

Can you teach a guy to put himself in a gap with a 230 pound RB coming at him at full speed? Yes, but it's a lot more difficult. Too many guys look like they shy away from contact. Maybe that's weak practices, maybe that's bad recruiting.
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"My big goal is to simplify and see if we can't get lined up and play faster, play harder," Johnson said. "I don't think you've got to trick people. You've got to line up and know what you're doing and play fast."

Groh installed the 3-4 when he got to Georgia Tech, but it was clear the players never fully picked up the scheme. Also, there was a difference in philosophy with Johnson, who felt Groh didn't do enough full-speed work in practice.

"To me, defense is energy and playing fast and playing with enthusiasm," Johnson said. "It's hard to get that if you don't go live (full-speed drills) some of the time."

While Johnson's focus has been on running the option offense, he believes the Yellow Jackets have plenty of talent on the defensive side.

"I'm not sold that we don't have good players," he said. "I'm very confident in our players' ability. We'll see."

Johnson praised Groh's defensive knowledge, but said he was never able to pass it on to his players.

"Al is a very smart man. He understands what's inside his head," Johnson said. "The problem is we weren't seeing it on the field. For whatever reason, it wasn't transcending."

That left the head coach with only one option -- make a change.
 
Nebraska could put less guys in the box because we actually were more successful throwing than running.

Also, if your team sucks at winning 1-on-1s in space...which as a coach is your fault anyway...******* SCHEME AROUND IT. That simple.
 
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Bicho said:
Scheme or players miami is awful at playing defense in space. They miss tackles left and right and 1 yard gains turn to 6 yard gains and 5 yard gains have turned to 10 yard Gains way to often the last 4 years.

The coaches deserve blame, period.

BUT to keep showing screenshots of how the defense lines up against the spread may be unfair. watching Nebraska line up on D they don't have any more in the box than miami.

With superior athleticism the biggest difference in the game last week between the 2 teams was tackling in space.

I wonder what would have happened if our linebackers were Eddie Johnson, paul, and do 52 rather than what we are putting out there there right now.

I still agree there is a big coaching issue too regardless.
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This conversation would be more meaningful if you post screen shots of their defenses
 
im sorry when a team only throws 9 times and you still have LBs off the line and have safeties deep thats a coaching problem, the whole no movement **** is bull ****, he never cheats up inside LBs, fake blitzes, he never does anything pre snap to confuse the opposing QBs, ive only seen him cheat the LBs once then go into coverage and that was FSU last year and you know what happened when he did that? winston threw a pick, all year the only person he cheats up are safeties and when they do its certain they are blitzing, its too vanilla and too predictable

nebraska had to do what they did because we were going to throw the ball and we had great athletes on the field, plus they gave up a **** load of yards to us anyway, we knew coming in that they were a run happy team and we still had guys off the line, even if we had eddie, gionni here the same **** would be happening, in fact who we have are way more athletic than them in kirby grace and armbrister, those screen shots show how stupid his formations are in certain situations
 
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