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Fawk_U Haters

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The Miami Hurricanes are one of the best programs in the country when it comes to developing talent for the NFL, according to Pick Six Previews.

The preseason college football publication put together a “Player Development” ranking which took a look at the recruit rankings from 2013-16 vs. the NFL Draft Picks from 2017-2020.

Here’s how Pick Six Previews describes the ranking:
If a program signs a bunch of 2-stars and ends up high on the NFL Draft pick lists, you know they are developing their players above expectation. Similarly, if a program signs a bunch of 5-stars and is relatively low on the NFL Draft list, it would appear they are not developing and maximizing player potential.”

Miami checks in at No. 10 on this list. So in short, the Hurricanes outperform their recruiting rankings. Utah is the top ranked team in this ranking while Iowa checks in at No. 2 overall. On the flip side, Florida State did not perform well in this ranking, coming in at No. 64 overall amongst the 66 Power Five programs. The worst team on this list is Nebraska. (LOL)

The Hurricanes featured four players that were selected in the recent 2020 draft. Those four draft picks put Miami in a unique group. According to SportSource Analytics, the Hurricanes are one of just nine FBS programs to have had 25-plus players drafted over the past five years, joining Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, Florida, Clemson, Michigan, Georgia, and Notre Dame.

man the data sure doesn't fit the narrative on this board about player development does it?
 
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Fawk_U Haters said:
Disucss:

The Miami Hurricanes are one of the best programs in the country when it comes to developing talent for the NFL, according to Pick Six Previews.

The preseason college football publication put together a “Player Development” ranking which took a look at the recruit rankings from 2013-16 vs. the NFL Draft Picks from 2017-2020.

Here’s how Pick Six Previews describes the ranking:
If a program signs a bunch of 2-stars and ends up high on the NFL Draft pick lists, you know they are developing their players above expectation. Similarly, if a program signs a bunch of 5-stars and is relatively low on the NFL Draft list, it would appear they are not developing and maximizing player potential.”

Miami checks in at No. 10 on this list. So in short, the Hurricanes outperform their recruiting rankings. Utah is the top ranked team in this ranking while Iowa checks in at No. 2 overall. On the flip side, Florida State did not perform well in this ranking, coming in at No. 64 overall amongst the 66 Power Five programs. The worst team on this list is Nebraska. (LOL)

The Hurricanes featured four players that were selected in the recent 2020 draft. Those four draft picks put Miami in a unique group. According to SportSource Analytics, the Hurricanes are one of just nine FBS programs to have had 25-plus players drafted over the past five years, joining Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, Florida, Clemson, Michigan, Georgia, and Notre Dame.

man the data sure doesn't fit the narrative on this board about player development does it?
Click to expand...

One of the reasons why we aren't winning more is because we don't have leadership on both sides of the ball
 
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yessirking said:
We haven't had leadership on both sides of the ball in years.
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Not sure what your comment has to do with the OP. The article says we've had great player development, this board seems to say differently. Just making a discussion piece.

However, If we had bad leadership, wouldn't we have bad player development too?
 
Fawk_U Haters said:
Disucss:

man the data sure doesn't fit the narrative on this board about player development does it?
Click to expand...

It's because people have different definitions of "development". A lot of people are under the assumption that players should improve every year. It's not really the case. Some guys come in and are ready to play at a high level right away and some guys don't contribute until their fourth or fifth season. Some guys hit their ceiling as a freshman or sophomore. Some guys are just athletically limited and no amount of practice or film study is going to make them a better athlete.

The biggest reason people here gripe about player development is simply because they tend to overrate our players. There's people on here who think every guy is a first round talent and then they act shocked when he gets picked in the fifth round. Their train of thought goes "I thought this guy was an all world talent but the NFL didn't agree so our coaches must not have done a good enough job of developing him". Guys like Joe Jackson, Shaq Quarterman and Trajan Bandy weren't underdeveloped. They were limited athletically and/or physically. No development in the world was going to make Quarterman run a 4.5 forty. Or make Bandy 6'1". Or give Joe Jackson better balance and more flexible hips.
 
The data doesn't fit the board narrative re player development and exposes the fact, once again, that very few porsters on this board have a fuggin clue about football.
 
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I think a deeper dive will show that the player development concerns are justified. I don't have time to do a deep dive, but there are a few differences:

1. The five stars at Bama, LSU, OSU, Clemson, etc. largely become first rounders. Ours, over that same time period (AQM, Chad Thomas, Walton) did not.

2. We suffered a dearth of first round picks during the analyzed time period. Njoku is the only first rounder; the rest of the guys went in Rounds 3 and 4 at the earliest.

There's been a clear development issue on the staff over the last five years. Miami guys are going to get drafted simply because they're Miami guys; the sheer number of picks doesn't make a difference if most of those guys go in the later rounds.
 
Katzenboyer said:
I think a deeper dive will show that the player development concerns are justified. I don't have time to do a deep dive, but there are a few differences:

1. The five stars at Bama, LSU, OSU, Clemson, etc. largely become first rounders. Ours, over that same time period (AQM, Chad Thomas, Walton) did not.

2. We suffered a dearth of first round picks during the analyzed time period. Njoku is the only first rounder; the rest of the guys went in Rounds 3 and 4 at the earliest.

There's been a clear development issue on the staff over the last five years. Miami guys are going to get drafted simply because they're Miami guys; the sheer number of picks doesn't make a difference if most of those guys go in the later rounds.
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1. AQM and Walton were not 5 stars. Also helps when you play on a team full of top 100 kids, does it not? This line of thinking is what i think @DTP was referring to in his post above. We overrate our players and when they don't perform to our expectations we call it development

2. I see you left out Artie who was a first rounder on that list, but i digress. Let me ask you this, Who in your mind should have been first round picks out of all the players drafted that wasn't a first rounder due to lack of development:
2020
Round: 4 / Pick: 140 - LB Shaq Quarterman (Jacksonville Jaguars)
Round: 4 / Pick: 144 - RB DeeJay Dallas (Seattle Seahawks)
Round: 5 / Pick: 176 - WR K.J. Osborn (Minnesota Vikings)
Round: 7 / Pick: 242 - DL Jon Garvin (Green Bay Packers)
2019
Round: 4 / Pick: 119 - DB Sheldrick Redwine (Cleveland Browns)
Round: 5 / Pick: 158 - CB Michael Jackson (Dallas Cowboys)
Round: 5 / Pick: 165 - DL Joe Jackson (Dallas Cowboys)
Round: 6 / Pick: 181 - DB Jaquan Johnson (Buffalo Bills)
Round: 6 / Pick: 204 - RB Travis Homer (Seattle Seahawks)
2018
Round: 3 / Pick: 67 - DL Chad Thomas (Cleveland Browns)
Round: 4 / Pick: 107 - TE Chris Herndon (New York Jets)
Round: 4 / Pick: 112 - RB Mark Walton (Cincinnati Bengals)
Round: 5 / Pick: 139 - DL RJ McIntosh (New York Giants)
Round: 6 / Pick: 210 - WR Braxton Berrios (New England Patriots)
Round: 7 / Pick 242 - DT Kendrick Norton (Carolina Panthers)
2017
Round: 1 / Pick: 29 - TE David Njoku (Cleveland Browns)
Round: 4 / Pick: 113 - DB Rayshawn Jenkins (Los Angles Chargers)
Round: 4 / Pick: 152 - CB Corn Elder (Carolina Panthers)
Round: 5 / Pick: 180 - OL Danny Isidora (Minnesota Vikings)
Round: 6 / Pick: 196 - DE Al-Quadin Muhammad (New Orleans Saints)
Round: 6 / Pick: 215 - QB Brad Kaaya (Detroit Lions)
Round: 7 / Pick: 219 - WR Stacy Coley (Minnesota Vikings)
Round: 7 / Pick: 229 - CB Adrian Colbert (San Francisco 49ers)
Round: 7 / Pick: 240 - FB Marquez Williams (Jacksonville Jaguars)
2016
Round: 1 / Pick: 25 - CB Artie Burns (Pittsburgh Steelers)
Round: 4 / Pick: 124 - S Deon Bush (Chicago Bears)

3. Do you think it is a coincidence that 2 of our most athletically gifted kids over the last 5 years were our only 2 first round picks?

4. Do you think our kids leaving a year early, therefore skipping another year of development, to be a late round pick is player devlopment? Those decisions, while hard to quantify, have an impact of where a kid is drafted. If our juniors stayed maybe we'd have more 2, 3, 4 round and less 5, 6, 7 rounds too.

If you want to say we need to recruit better, i think EVERYONE would agree.
 
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Katzenboyer said:
1. The five stars at Bama, LSU, OSU, Clemson, etc. largely become first rounders. Ours, over that same time period (AQM, Chad Thomas, Walton) did not.
Click to expand...

The only 5 star players Miami has signed over the last 5 seasons are Chad Thomas and Lorenzo Lingard. Lingard transferred and Thomas ended up a 3rd round pick. AQM and Walton were 4 star players. If you want to go back another 5 years, you can add Tracy Howard to the list of consensus 5 star Miami signees. That's 3 guys over a ten year period. Alabama, OSU and LSU sign 3 5 star players every cycle. Sometimes even more.
The assumption that a majority of 5 star players at Alabama become first rounders is incorrect. They have a lot of 5 star first round picks because they have the most 5 star players. A majority of them do not become first rounders, it just seems that way because they have so many.
 
Another factor that needs to be considered is winning. The better your team performs as a whole, the higher a player’s contribution is considered.

Not to mention more winning leads to more national exposure. Had we gone 9-3 last year and not 6-6, I’d be willing to bet that Trajan, JT4, and Pinck get drafted. Maybe it’s only the 7th round but winning affects optics.
 
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Abysmal utilization of our players.
I had to watch Pinckney and Quarterman struggle in pass pro the last 4 years, but they both make great pass pro plays in the senior bowl practices.
If the coaches put the kids in better schemes they'd go slightly higher. If we won more games they'd go slightly higher as well.
Fans overrate our players but the players do underperform.
 
Katzenboyer said:
I think a deeper dive will show that the player development concerns are justified. I don't have time to do a deep dive, but there are a few differences:

1. The five stars at Bama, LSU, OSU, Clemson, etc. largely become first rounders. Ours, over that same time period (AQM, Chad Thomas, Walton) did not.

2. We suffered a dearth of first round picks during the analyzed time period. Njoku is the only first rounder; the rest of the guys went in Rounds 3 and 4 at the earliest.

There's been a clear development issue on the staff over the last five years. Miami guys are going to get drafted simply because they're Miami guys; the sheer number of picks doesn't make a difference if most of those guys go in the later rounds.
Click to expand...


Their entire team is full of 4-5 Star guys. Their numbers are in a different stratosphere compared to ours. It's not really even possible to compare.
 
DTP said:
The only 5 star players Miami has signed over the last 5 seasons are Chad Thomas and Lorenzo Lingard. Lingard transferred and Thomas ended up a 3rd round pick. AQM and Walton were 4 star players. If you want to go back another 5 years, you can add Tracy Howard to the list of consensus 5 star Miami signees. That's 3 guys over a ten year period. Alabama, OSU and LSU sign 3 5 star players every cycle. Sometimes even more.
The assumption that a majority of 5 star players at Alabama become first rounders is incorrect. They have a lot of 5 star first round picks because they have the most 5 star players. A majority of them do not become first rounders, it just seems that way because they have so many.
Click to expand...
No 4guys u f4 got artie burns!
 
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Fawk_U Haters said:
Disucss:

The Miami Hurricanes are one of the best programs in the country when it comes to developing talent for the NFL, according to Pick Six Previews.

The preseason college football publication put together a “Player Development” ranking which took a look at the recruit rankings from 2013-16 vs. the NFL Draft Picks from 2017-2020.

Here’s how Pick Six Previews describes the ranking:
If a program signs a bunch of 2-stars and ends up high on the NFL Draft pick lists, you know they are developing their players above expectation. Similarly, if a program signs a bunch of 5-stars and is relatively low on the NFL Draft list, it would appear they are not developing and maximizing player potential.”

Miami checks in at No. 10 on this list. So in short, the Hurricanes outperform their recruiting rankings. Utah is the top ranked team in this ranking while Iowa checks in at No. 2 overall. On the flip side, Florida State did not perform well in this ranking, coming in at No. 64 overall amongst the 66 Power Five programs. The worst team on this list is Nebraska. (LOL)

The Hurricanes featured four players that were selected in the recent 2020 draft. Those four draft picks put Miami in a unique group. According to SportSource Analytics, the Hurricanes are one of just nine FBS programs to have had 25-plus players drafted over the past five years, joining Alabama, Ohio State, LSU, Florida, Clemson, Michigan, Georgia, and Notre Dame.

man the data sure doesn't fit the narrative on this board about player development does it?
Click to expand...
That's interesting. I remember reading on Canespace in 2010 about an NFL scout saying that the Hurricanes were the worst coached college team at the time, and it seemed to bear out with numerous players regressing from the 2008 class.
 
DTP said:
The only 5 star players Miami has signed over the last 5 seasons are Chad Thomas and Lorenzo Lingard. Lingard transferred and Thomas ended up a 3rd round pick. AQM and Walton were 4 star players. If you want to go back another 5 years, you can add Tracy Howard to the list of consensus 5 star Miami signees. That's 3 guys over a ten year period. Alabama, OSU and LSU sign 3 5 star players every cycle. Sometimes even more.
The assumption that a majority of 5 star players at Alabama become first rounders is incorrect. They have a lot of 5 star first round picks because they have the most 5 star players. A majority of them do not become first rounders, it just seems that way because they have so many.
Click to expand...
Duke was a five star and sò was Anthony Chickillo.
 
Katzenboyer said:
I think a deeper dive will show that the player development concerns are justified. I don't have time to do a deep dive, but there are a few differences:

1. The five stars at Bama, LSU, OSU, Clemson, etc. largely become first rounders. Ours, over that same time period (AQM, Chad Thomas, Walton) did not.

2. We suffered a dearth of first round picks during the analyzed time period. Njoku is the only first rounder; the rest of the guys went in Rounds 3 and 4 at the earliest.

There's been a clear development issue on the staff over the last five years. Miami guys are going to get drafted simply because they're Miami guys; the sheer number of picks doesn't make a difference if most of those guys go in the later rounds.
Click to expand...
Everyone makes it sound like everybody that’s a blue chip that goes to Bama and is a first round pick. Alabama has had plenty of blue chips that don’t make it to the first round and they’ve also had players that don’t even make the draft but we only remember the ones that make the first round. Nobody and I mean nobody in college football has had players go to the NFL at the level that Miami has when you consider the level that we recruit at. And that is a fact that is undeniable. Chad goes in a fourth round and we think that Alabama would’ve made him into a first rounder. Like I pointed it out in another post, Ben Davis was a number one consensus linebacker in the country and went undrafted at Alabama. So we get one five star defensive end in Chad Thomas and because he’s not a first rounder we are horrible at developing talent. Alabama has had the number one or number two recruiting class in almost 10 years. The way you guys make it sound it seems like Alabama has almost the entire first round locked up because every blue chip player becomes a first rounder and that’s just not freaking true. Go look at their classes and go see where those guys went and not only that, go see how long they’ve been in the league. Alabama has about 80 percent of their classes blue chippers. Thats about 15 kids each class that are easily top 20 in their respective position. They should be putting out at lest 10 first rounders each year according to that logic. This narrative that every blue-chip player becomes a first rounder Alabama it’s just not true.
Plenty of 5 stars at bama never made it to the first round and again nobody gives a sht cause at least they get a few in. How the fck can we not give our staff credit for Njoku as 3 star but give glory to bama for Jeudy and minkah and Amari?
How can we sht on our staff for Redwine but praise Ohio state for okuda hand bosa? We do t give credit for rj mcintosh but suck off Dabo for their dtackles? Your recruit 3 classes worth of 5 star dtackles and I think a few might have a chance of making it in the first round.
Look at Alabama with leatherwoods and Neal. Think those dudes might go early and we knew they would go early before they set in foot at bama and Ohio state or lsu or Clemson.
Clemson got Xavier Thomas he’s a freak. That breeze dude they just got us a freak. juston flowe ain’t dropping to second round and he ai t played one game of college.
Ed Oliver was a top 10 pick in high school and even Houston’s defense couldn’t ruin that.
A lot of people that post on here don’t have orange and green glasses on, they have red and white glasses on.
We are the only school that sucks because every single player that’s a four-star or above has to go day one. It’s an absolute necessity that every elite player has to go day ones or Miami is the most horrible school when it comes to developing talent.
Every school can always do better but I think considering where we recruit at nationally were an outlier in terms of how many people we get drafted.
 
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