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Overrated and underrated past Cane teams

TemplarCane said:
Kenny Kelly had limitations and clearly not as good as Dorsey, but he wasn’t awful. He started as the Canes’ resurgence started, having to mature at the same time as the players you mentioned. Dorsey walked into a perfect situation. Moss and Wayne were seniors for Dorsey’s first season. The 2000 OL matured and added Bryant McKinnie. Franks was a first round pick after 1999, playing mostly with Kelly. The Canes were competitive with #1 FSU in Tally, and lost a heartbreaker at home to #3 Penn State. Miami did not lose those games soley because of Kelly. The Canes weren’t rolled by VT soley because of Kelly.
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This could definitely be a case of me remembering it differently and/or placing too much blame on the QB. I just remember Kelly's inaccuracy and INT's making every game a struggle for a ridiculously talented team - even against the weaker opponents.

FSU - Peter Warrick and Laverneous Coles were suspended for that game, so that helped. But Kelly put up good numbers.
Penn St - Kelly threw 2 INT's in the 1st quarter, and an INT on what could've been a game winning drive. And these were bad INT's that were on him.
East Carolina - We had 1st down at the ECU 15 at the end of the game - and Kelly threw 4 straight incompletions. Bad ones. All 4 passes were so off target our WR's couldn't even get a hand on any of them. He missed a wide open Santana Moss in the end zone.
VT - We just ran into a buzzsaw. Michael Vick was superman and their confidence off the charts at that point of the season.

Kelly wasn't terrible. I'd say he was better than Brock Berlin. But Kenny Kelly was in that same perfect situation Ken Dorsey was, and couldn't take advantage of it.
 
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TemplarCane said:
With all respect to Dorsey his three regular-season starts were home games against Rutgers (1-10), Syracuse (7-5), and Temple (2-9).
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Problem is, if Kenny Kelly played those games, he doesn't do what Dorsey does. The O needed a QB that could hit guys running wide open, because there were a lot of guys running wide open. Kelly struggled horribly with this. See the last three quarters of the ECU game.

Dorsey got the ball into the hands of his weapons enough to get the job done. No, he didn't have the best arm, mobility, or anything like that. He did have the ability to take what the D gives, and did a pretty good job of getting the ball where it needed to go.

That being said, I have often wondered what those teams looked like with an NFL caliber QB. You know, Like Brock Berlin. ;)
 
bshaw28 said:
This could definitely be a case of me remembering it differently and/or placing too much blame on the QB. I just remember Kelly's inaccuracy and INT's making every game a struggle for a ridiculously talented team - even against the weaker opponents.

FSU - Peter Warrick and Laverneous Coles were suspended for that game, so that helped. But Kelly put up good numbers.
Penn St - Kelly threw 2 INT's in the 1st quarter, and an INT on what could've been a game winning drive. And these were bad INT's that were on him.
East Carolina - We had 1st down at the ECU 15 at the end of the game - and Kelly threw 4 straight incompletions. Bad ones. All 4 passes were so off target our WR's couldn't even get a hand on any of them. He missed a wide open Santana Moss in the end zone.
VT - We just ran into a buzzsaw. Michael Vick was superman and their confidence off the charts at that point of the season.

Kelly wasn't terrible. I'd say he was better than Brock Berlin. But Kenny Kelly was in that same perfect situation Ken Dorsey was, and couldn't take advantage of it.
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Don't forget the BC game. He was wayyy off that game as well. As soon as he started hitting passes, we came back from a huge hole to win. When he was hot, we looked unbeatable. Problem was, he was never hot a whole game. He was far more likely to be cold three quarters.
 
Schnellyfan said:
They weren’t surrounded by the same talent Dorsey was. Good lord.

Anyway, let’s get back on topic and discuss overrated and underrated Canes teams. Rather than discussing if a 7th rounder is one of the best college QBs of all time.
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I just jump it. I thought you started it.
 
ThomasM said:
Problem is, if Kenny Kelly played those games, he doesn't do what Dorsey does. The O needed a QB that could hit guys running wide open, because there were a lot of guys running wide open. Kelly struggled horribly with this. See the last three quarters of the ECU game.

Dorsey got the ball into the hands of his weapons enough to get the job done. No, he didn't have the best arm, mobility, or anything like that. He did have the ability to take what the D gives, and did a pretty good job of getting the ball where it needed to go.

That being said, I have often wondered what those teams looked like with an NFL caliber QB. You know, Like Brock Berlin. ;)
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Miami wins those games easily with Kelly, but I'm not commenting to hold him up as a great QB or to minimize Dorsey.
 
Schnellyfan said:
For underrated I’d say 1990. That was really the best team in the country. TBH, with Colorado basically having three losses and a tie (fifth down vs Mizzou and bogus clip call vs Notre Dame) and GT facing a weak ACC and only winning the Citrus Bowl, I think they should have been national champs.

Another underrated team is 1981. They faced a terrific scedule.

Some seasons I find to be overrated include 1985, 1992 and 2003. 1985’s main achievement was a rout of a Gerry Faust team. 1992 wasn’t that good even in the regular season. 2003 was mostly living off the rep of the 00-02 teams.

However, none of them are even close to as overrated as 2017.
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The 2017 had a lot of lucky escapes but sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.
 
bshaw28 said:
This could definitely be a case of me remembering it differently and/or placing too much blame on the QB. I just remember Kelly's inaccuracy and INT's making every game a struggle for a ridiculously talented team - even against the weaker opponents.

FSU - Peter Warrick and Laverneous Coles were suspended for that game, so that helped. But Kelly put up good numbers.
Penn St - Kelly threw 2 INT's in the 1st quarter, and an INT on what could've been a game winning drive. And these were bad INT's that were on him.
East Carolina - We had 1st down at the ECU 15 at the end of the game - and Kelly threw 4 straight incompletions. Bad ones. All 4 passes were so off target our WR's couldn't even get a hand on any of them. He missed a wide open Santana Moss in the end zone.
VT - We just ran into a buzzsaw. Michael Vick was superman and their confidence off the charts at that point of the season.

Kelly wasn't terrible. I'd say he was better than Brock Berlin. But Kenny Kelly was in that same perfect situation Ken Dorsey was, and couldn't take advantage of it.
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Miami beats PSU if they convert a simple 4th-and-short run, or if Ed Reed gets over in time to prevent a game-winning 80-yard TD pass.
 
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TemplarCane said:
Miami wins those games easily with Kelly, but I'm not commenting to hold him up as a great QB or to minimize Dorsey.
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Yes, they do. What they DON'T do is score as easily or as often. The O just clicked once Dorsey got in there. Great line, great skill talent, it just needed an above average QB that could survey the field better and hit his targets. Dorsey wasn't an amazing QB, but he was a very competent one. Sometimes that's all you need at the college level.
 
2019 was definitely the most underrated season, no questions asked
 
TemplarCane said:
Miami beats PSU if they convert a simple 4th-and-short run, or if Ed Reed gets over in time to prevent a game-winning 80-yard TD pass.
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All that's true - we also missed an XP in a 4 pt game that could've been the difference. But I went back to see if I remembered the Penn St game correctly. I didn't.

Kenny Kelly actually had 5 turnovers - 4 INT's & 1 fumble.

All these things we struggled with this year and have been for years was also there in this game in 1999. Can't pick up short yardage. Can't get a defensive stop when you need it. Missed kicks. Too many penalties. Bad coaching. All these things are magnified when your QB turns the ball over 5 times.

But as soon as Ken Dorsey took over - all these problems magically went away.
 
bshaw28 said:
All that's true - we also missed an XP in a 4 pt game that could've been the difference. But I went back to see if I remembered the Penn St game correctly. I didn't.

Kenny Kelly actually had 5 turnovers - 4 INT's & 1 fumble.

All these things we struggled with this year and have been for years was also there in this game in 1999. Can't pick up short yardage. Can't get a defensive stop when you need it. Missed kicks. Too many penalties. Bad coaching. All these things are magnified when your QB turns the ball over 5 times.

But as soon as Ken Dorsey took over - all these problems magically went away.
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Geez bro, I am not hating on Dorsey, nor do I think Kelly was all-anything. I do think to blame Kelly for all miscues in 1999 is an overreach.
 
TemplarCane said:
Geez bro, I am not hating on Dorsey, nor do I think Kelly was all-anything. I do think to blame Kelly for all miscues in 1999 is an overreach.
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I'm not saying Kelly was completely to blame. There were a lot of factors. But Kelly was definitely the main factor. And things instantly improved once Dorsey started playing.

With all the talk right now about the 15 different things Miami needs to do to improve - getting better QB play is the biggest factor and quickest way to turn things around IMO
 
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miamicanephins said:
Op said Dorsey was the #1 overrated Cane, and then you agreed with him???
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Who said I agreed with that..if we’re talking as a individual talent and you say Dorsey is one of CFB best QBs in history , no I don’t agree with that at all... if you think Dorsey is a top 5 individual player in Miami history no I don’t agree with that And at that point your overrating gis m
 
5Rings&an Asterisk said:
That’s the juicer storyline. Notes Dame isn’t supposed to lose like that. Then their AD comes out crying that we were trying to embarrass them, when we were playing with our second and third team. It fed into the we were thugs narrative.
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It began the we were thugs narrative.
 
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bshaw28 said:
This could definitely be a case of me remembering it differently and/or placing too much blame on the QB. I just remember Kelly's inaccuracy and INT's making every game a struggle for a ridiculously talented team - even against the weaker opponents.

FSU - Peter Warrick and Laverneous Coles were suspended for that game, so that helped. But Kelly put up good numbers.
Penn St - Kelly threw 2 INT's in the 1st quarter, and an INT on what could've been a game winning drive. And these were bad INT's that were on him.
East Carolina - We had 1st down at the ECU 15 at the end of the game - and Kelly threw 4 straight incompletions. Bad ones. All 4 passes were so off target our WR's couldn't even get a hand on any of them. He missed a wide open Santana Moss in the end zone.
VT - We just ran into a buzzsaw. Michael Vick was superman and their confidence off the charts at that point of the season.

Kelly wasn't terrible. I'd say he was better than Brock Berlin. But Kenny Kelly was in that same perfect situation Ken Dorsey was, and couldn't take advantage of it.
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KK was not better than Berlin....Stop it...Berlin was 5-0 against FSU & UF....
 
dorsey was a heck of a leader but severely limited by that noodle arm

it seems he lost a lot of strength to me between the 01 to 02 season. I remember vs nebraska he was tossing darts, but he seemed to be skinnier against fsu the following season I remember vividly seeing it.

probably just me but ye.. We all wanted to see brock berlin get in there and see what the team "could really do" so plenty of us weren't overwhelmed with dorsey.
 
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