OT: University of Kentucky looks to make athletic department LLC

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It's as much about taxes as liabilities. I'd assume this allows them to protect the university from athletic department mistakes.
I’d think so too. UF’s athletic department (the UAA) has always been incorporated as a separate nonprofit entity, but not as an LLC. It has a board and offices across the street from campus, and manages the fundraising and compliance. There are absolutely pros and cons to this, but this has been their strategy for a long time.
 
As I mentioned a few days ago, I do think this is where CFB is heading with affiliation to schools remaining, but pseudo semi-pro status with possible affiliations to NFL teams similar to minor league baseball.
The difference being, the Durham Bulls have no built in fan base other than local baseball fans, while the University of Miami affiliated football team would draw from its current fan base and let’s say an expanded Dolphins fan base who want to watch their future stars, for example.
 
I read the article but can’t understand the practical differences this will make, which may be due to my ignorance.

What say you @TheOriginalCane


It's very interesting, as the article itself is somewhat confusing and self-contradictory.

Very briefly, the use of a separate legal entity such as an LLC could involve issues such as ownership (an LLC defaults to a partnership, and the article mentions "public-private partnership"), separation of assets, legal governance, traditional limitations on "state entities" such as a university, and AS ALWAYS tax implications.

1. Ownership - this is potentially the most confusing portion, as there is no detail of the "public-private partnership". In other parts of the article, is is called a "foundation" and the athletic department is referred to as a "holding company". All of that is a bunch of word salad nonsense until we can see a corporate org chart to understand the big picture. What I CAN comprehend is that, perhaps, by forming an LLC, UK could take on one or more OUTSIDE partners (such as a private equity firm or a sports management company) that could supplement the financial and/or operational functions currently peformed by the UK Athletic Department. Having said that, it is a dangerous business to give partial ownership of something that has historically been 100% owned by a state entity such as UK, so I'd love to see what the "rights and limitations" might be as to ownership of names, logos, and revenue streams generated by the sports programs.

2. Separation of assets - this one can be tricky. It's one thing to drop UK-AD employees into a new entity, and maybe even an administrative building. I'm not so sure that UK could put Rupp Arena into this LLC, so they might have to secure the rights with a lease agreement. I've been to Rupp, it is connected to a hotel/conference facility, and I'm not sure who the ultimate owner is (City of Lexington?). The same would be true of the football stadium, though I have not been there, and don't know if it is considered "on-campus" on UK property or not. Still, these facilities are massive assets, and I'm not so sure that the Kentucky taxpayers wouldn't have valid questions/claims as to whether such assets can be dropped into an LLC that might have outside (non-state-entity) stakeholders.

3. Legal governance - this is one of the "clearer" points made in the article, in that there would be "business" and "industry" experts on the Board, and that the entity would have its own HR Department. At least on its face, these both seem like positive developments that could democratize and professionalize the UK-AD operations. However, I might question whether "the Board" would eventually function in much the same fashion as a "booster-club-captive" Athletic Department tends to function in the SEC-SEC-SEC currently. It would certainly be interesting if the "private partners" who co-own the LLC were allowed to appoint directors independently of who UK were to appoint. Also, assuming UK would still have "majority" control of The Board, would there be a percentage of "activist shareholders" who could block certain actions. It's one thing to be optimistic in planning for the future, but you have to structure things in the event of "worst-case scenarios" so that you are not screwed over years down the road.

4. Traditional limitations on state entities - the article alludes to certain things like "real estate" and "fund-raising" that may be limited by the long-standing traditional roles and limitations of a state university. There may be some merit here in "steering around" such limitations on state universities, though I wonder whether this "LLC/foundation/holding company" would still qualify for state financing and/or bonds when the time comes to renovate facilities or build roadway/parking improvements.

5. Tax - building on a couple of my prior comments, would this be a "tax-exempt" FOUNDATION that would be intended to build up the revenue (and profits) of the Athletic Department without having to pay income tax? As a part of a state university, I'd imagine that UK is not a traditional "income tax payer" anyhow, but if you siphon off one of the highest-revenue-generators and "run it like a business", it would be very...unusual...for such a like-a-business entity to NOT pay income taxes, particularly if some of the "partners" are for-profit businesses.

Lots of very interesting questions generated by such a vague and contradictory news article.
 
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I’d think so too. UF’s athletic department (the UAA) has always been incorporated as a separate nonprofit entity, but not as an LLC. It has a board and offices across the street from campus, and manages the fundraising and compliance. There are absolutely pros and cons to this, but this has been their strategy for a long time.


This is true as it relates to UF-AD OPERATIONS. However, I do not believe the UAA is the owner of facilities such as the O'Connell Center and the super-lengthy-football-stadium-name commonly known as The Swamp.

Still, it's a good starting point for an organizational model.
 
T
It's very interesting, as the article itself is somewhat confusing and self-contradictory.

Very briefly, the use of a separate legal entity such as an LLC could involve issues such as ownership (an LLC defaults to a partnership, and the article mentions "public-private partnership"), separation of assets, legal governance, traditional limitations on "state entities" such as a university, and AS ALWAYS tax implications.

1. Ownership - this is potentially the most confusing portion, as there is no detail of the "public-private partnership". In other parts of the article, is is called a "foundation" and the athletic department is referred to as a "holding company". All of that is a bunch of word salad nonsense until we can see a corporate org chart to understand the big picture. What I CAN comprehend is that, perhaps, by forming an LLC, UK could take on one or more OUTSIDE partners (such as a private equity firm or a sports management company) that could supplement the financial and/or operational functions currently peformed by the UK Athletic Department. Having said that, it is a dangerous business to give partial ownership of something that has historically been 100% owned by a state entity such as UK, so I'd love to see what the "rights and limitations" might be as to ownership of names, logos, and revenue streams generated by the sports programs.

2. Separation of assets - this one can be tricky. It's one thing to drop UK-AD employees into a new entity, and maybe even an administrative building. I'm not so sure that UK could put Rupp Arena into this LLC, so they might have to secure the rights with a lease agreement. I've been to Rupp, it is connected to a hotel/conference facility, and I'm not sure who the ultimate owner is (City of Lexington?). The same would be true of the football stadium, though I have not been there, and don't know if it is considered "on-campus" on UK property or not. Still, these facilities are massive assets, and I'm not so sure that the Kentucky taxpayers wouldn't have valid questions/claims as to whether such assets can be dropped into an LLC that might have outside (non-state-entity) stakeholders.

3. Legal governance - this is one of the "clearer" points made in the article, in that there would be "business" and "industry" experts on the Board, and that the entity would have its own HR Department. At least on its face, these both seem like positive developments that could democratize and professionalize the UK-AD operations. However, I might question whether "the Board" would eventually function in much the same fashion as a "booster-club-captive" Athletic Department tends to function in the SEC-SEC-SEC currently. It would certainly be interesting if the "private partners" who co-own the LLC were allowed to appoint directors independently of who UK were to appoint. Also, assuming UK would still have "majority" control of The Board, would there be a percentage of "activist shareholders" who could block certain actions. It's one thing to be optimistic in planning for the future, but you have to structure things in the event of "worst-case scenarios" so that you are not screwed over years down the road.

4. Traditional limitations on state entities - the article alludes to certain things like "real estate" and "fund-raising" that may be limited by the long-standing traditional roles and limitations of a state university. There may be some merit here in "steering around" such limitations on state universities, though I wonder whether this "LLC/foundation/holding company" would still qualify for state financing and/or bonds when the time comes to renovate facilities or build roadway/parking improvements.

5. Tax - building on a couple of my prior comments, would this be a "tax-exempt" FOUNDATION that would be intended to build up the revenue (and profits) of the Athletic Department without having to pay income tax? As a part of a state university, I'd imagine that UK is not a traditional "income tax payer" anyhow, but if you siphon off one of the highest-revenue-generators and "run it like a business", it would be very...unusual...for such a like-a-business entity to NOT pay income taxes, particularly if some of the "partners" are for-profit businesses.

Lots of very interesting questions generated by such a vague and contradictory news article.
They could still keep it related and tax free if they put all the charitable language in the Operating Agreement and retained control, assuming athletics remains a related activity. But, if it didn’t, it would be taxable irrespective of being in a JV or done by the university.
 
This is true as it relates to UF-AD OPERATIONS. However, I do not believe the UAA is the owner of facilities such as the O'Connell Center and the super-lengthy-football-stadium-name commonly known as The Swamp.

Still, it's a good starting point for an organizational model.
Actually, they do own and operate all the sports facilities. The original purpose for incorporating the UAA was for the construction of the Swamp, and they have maintained that model with the ODome and every other facility.
 
It's very interesting, as the article itself is somewhat confusing and self-contradictory.

Very briefly, the use of a separate legal entity such as an LLC could involve issues such as ownership (an LLC defaults to a partnership, and the article mentions "public-private partnership"), separation of assets, legal governance, traditional limitations on "state entities" such as a university, and AS ALWAYS tax implications.

1. Ownership - this is potentially the most confusing portion, as there is no detail of the "public-private partnership". In other parts of the article, is is called a "foundation" and the athletic department is referred to as a "holding company". All of that is a bunch of word salad nonsense until we can see a corporate org chart to understand the big picture. What I CAN comprehend is that, perhaps, by forming an LLC, UK could take on one or more OUTSIDE partners (such as a private equity firm or a sports management company) that could supplement the financial and/or operational functions currently peformed by the UK Athletic Department. Having said that, it is a dangerous business to give partial ownership of something that has historically been 100% owned by a state entity such as UK, so I'd love to see what the "rights and limitations" might be as to ownership of names, logos, and revenue streams generated by the sports programs.

2. Separation of assets - this one can be tricky. It's one thing to drop UK-AD employees into a new entity, and maybe even an administrative building. I'm not so sure that UK could put Rupp Arena into this LLC, so they might have to secure the rights with a lease agreement. I've been to Rupp, it is connected to a hotel/conference facility, and I'm not sure who the ultimate owner is (City of Lexington?). The same would be true of the football stadium, though I have not been there, and don't know if it is considered "on-campus" on UK property or not. Still, these facilities are massive assets, and I'm not so sure that the Kentucky taxpayers wouldn't have valid questions/claims as to whether such assets can be dropped into an LLC that might have outside (non-state-entity) stakeholders.

3. Legal governance - this is one of the "clearer" points made in the article, in that there would be "business" and "industry" experts on the Board, and that the entity would have its own HR Department. At least on its face, these both seem like positive developments that could democratize and professionalize the UK-AD operations. However, I might question whether "the Board" would eventually function in much the same fashion as a "booster-club-captive" Athletic Department tends to function in the SEC-SEC-SEC currently. It would certainly be interesting if the "private partners" who co-own the LLC were allowed to appoint directors independently of who UK were to appoint. Also, assuming UK would still have "majority" control of The Board, would there be a percentage of "activist shareholders" who could block certain actions. It's one thing to be optimistic in planning for the future, but you have to structure things in the event of "worst-case scenarios" so that you are not screwed over years down the road.

4. Traditional limitations on state entities - the article alludes to certain things like "real estate" and "fund-raising" that may be limited by the long-standing traditional roles and limitations of a state university. There may be some merit here in "steering around" such limitations on state universities, though I wonder whether this "LLC/foundation/holding company" would still qualify for state financing and/or bonds when the time comes to renovate facilities or build roadway/parking improvements.

5. Tax - building on a couple of my prior comments, would this be a "tax-exempt" FOUNDATION that would be intended to build up the revenue (and profits) of the Athletic Department without having to pay income tax? As a part of a state university, I'd imagine that UK is not a traditional "income tax payer" anyhow, but if you siphon off one of the highest-revenue-generators and "run it like a business", it would be very...unusual...for such a like-a-business entity to NOT pay income taxes, particularly if some of the "partners" are for-profit businesses.

Lots of very interesting questions generated by such a vague and contradictory news article.
If the athletics department becomes an LLC, are the employees then considered employees of the LLC and not the University?

And if so, I guess there would be some deal whereby the athletic department simply has a contractual relationship with a university? Like the athletic department is licensing and using University trademarks on athletics apparel?

If so, couldn’t the athletic department and university each choose to separate from the other?
 
Actually, they do own and operate all the sports facilities. The original purpose for incorporating the UAA was for the construction of the Swamp, and they have maintained that model with the ODome and every other facility.


Operate, I agree with you. Own...everything I have read says that UF owns the facilities and the UAA operates the facilities. I know that the UAA raised funds for the construction of Florida Field, since the State of Florida was broke during The Great Depression. And the UAA has long made contributions to UF, which has been one of the selling points of their fund-raising efforts (as when donors ask "where does the money go?").

There may be some mixing and matching of terminology here, anyhow. My original comments were directed towards UK setting up an entity that would have partial ownership by outside third parties, and how that would be problematic on assets that are, essentially, owned by the state and the state taxpayers.

Even if the UF UAA owned the facilities (which, again, I do not believe they do), I do not believe the UAA would be able to take on outside non-UF third-party investors in state-owned property.
 
If the athletics department becomes an LLC, are the employees then considered employees of the LLC and not the University?

And if so, I guess there would be some deal whereby the athletic department simply has a contractual relationship with a university? Like the athletic department is licensing and using University trademarks on athletics apparel?

If so, couldn’t the athletic department and university each choose to separate from the other?
I was wondering same thing especially as it relates to state schools where long time employees are eligible for pension. Kevin Steele became fully vested in AL pension by going back and working one more year at AL.
 
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