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OT: UM Law School

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wspcane said:
The biggest piece of advice I can give you is unless you are going to that top 20-25 school, minimize your student debt if that is an issue. You absolutely cannot and should not go to law school with the expectation of landing a big law job or salary at the end, especially if a recession comes in the next 2-4 years.
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Yea, I wouldn't even advise going to law school right now unless you're getting serious scholarship money.
 
What those dudes said. '06 grad. Unless you get into a top 25 (really top 14) go to law school that will cost you the least amount of $$. I still have 70k in law school loans for UM almost 15 years later. My career has turned out pretty well, but graduating from UM didn't mean anything in DC.
 
May 2013 grad here. Originally planned to return home to Boston after graduating but just couldn't turn down the firms offering. Miami firms want to hire Miami grads.

If money is no issue, I would recommend it. I had a positive experience and sought out professors who were serious about getting their students top jobs in the Miami market. I'm currently wrapping up a clerkship with a federal judge, and while my resume/transcript is decent (*** laude graduate), I would have never been a serious candidate for this clerkship without the personal relationships I made with the faculty at the school.

That being said, the loans I had to take out/repay are a drag, and limit me financially. So if you have options at other schools in the area -- namely, FIU -- that are offering scholarships or are much cheaper, I'd look into them. FIU's reputation is growing, and they're really pumping out graduates ready to practice. Again, UM is still the more prestigious option, but I've been impressed with the caliber of intern at both schools during my time with the Judge.

Any other questions, feel free to ask.
 
TimeB0mb said:
What those dudes said. '06 grad. Unless you get into a top 25 (really top 14) go to law school that will cost you the least amount of $$. I still have 70k in law school loans for UM almost 15 years later. My career has turned out pretty well, but graduating from UM didn't mean anything in DC.
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Sheesh. Were you just not aggressive in paying your loans off?
 
I moved down from Ohio for law school at UM. I could have gone to Ohio State or University of Cincinnati for a third of the price, but I took out student loans to pay the freight. First, I wanted to live in Miami. Second, the exposure I got at UM, particularly with the internships and faculty (as well as the adjunct faculty (Roy Black, federal district and appellate court judges, etc.). The visiting profs: Edwin S. Cohen, former undersecretary of the treasury, was a visiting tax professor, retired Supreme Court Justice Brennen, etc. I had the opportunity to go to intern at the Securities and Exchange Commission, where I ended up working after law school. I could not have done that in Columbus, Ohio or Gainesville. That said, I was in the hock for the next 15 years until I paid my student loans off. That wasn't fun. But if you are going to live in Miami or South Florida, you cannot go wrong with the law school.
 
Katzenboyer said:
Guy graduated right before the legal market dried up. Can't imagine too many firms were handing out the big bucks at that point.
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Nope. And I went into public service but was making just enough that the income based repayment was insane (850 per month) so was in the 25 year repayment plan (lower monthly). Good news is I think my remaining balance might get forgiven this year.

I don't regret it. Was a great experience and I get to say I'm a miami hurricane.
 
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TimeB0mb said:
Nope. And I went into public service but was making just enough that the income based repayment was insane (850 per month) so was in the 25 year repayment plan (lower monthly). Good news is I think my remaining balance might get forgiven this year.

I don't regret it. Was a great experience and I get to say I'm a miami hurricane.
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I'm in the same boat - currently on a government paycheck and can only do the minimum payments on ICBR. Hoping to have the debt wiped out in the next 4-5 years once I return to firm life in February.

I don't regret my decision at all. I hate the debt, but I love my current job, am really excited about my next job, and love being an attorney. But I would caution anyone that does not want to be a lawyer -- and is simply going to law school to get a JD "to have more options -- to look elsewhere based entirely on the financial commitment it entails.
 
Lot of factors at play here.

Are you looking to stay in Florida?
Do you have any interest in working in big law?
But most importantly how much money are they giving you?

Miami has a good reputation in the Southeast, but if they aren't throwing a lot of money at you, it's probably better to go to an in state school with a lower sticker price.

Big law firms do recruit at Miami, but you have to absolutely crush it. Like the guy above said, top 10%, moot Court, the whole shebang.

I just graduated law school this past year so if you have any more questions feel free to PM.
 
TacoCane said:
Lot of factors at play here.

Are you looking to stay in Florida?
Do you have any interest in working in big law?
But most importantly how much money are they giving you?

Miami has a good reputation in the Southeast, but if they aren't throwing a lot of money at you, it's probably better to go to an in state school with a lower sticker price.

Big law firms do recruit at Miami, but you have to absolutely crush it. Like the guy above said, top 10%, moot Court, the whole shebang.

I just graduated law school this past year so if you have any more questions feel free to PM.
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This. If you want to practice at Greenberg, Akerman, or some of the larger NY firms with a presence down here - Boies, Jones Day, etc. -- you need to be top 10 in your class, with law review and moot court credentials.

You'll make $160-180K after graduation, but you will get completely mowed down with work. It's a trade off, but one you have to be comfortable with.
 
TimeB0mb said:
What those dudes said. '06 grad. Unless you get into a top 25 (really top 14) go to law school that will cost you the least amount of $$. I still have 70k in law school loans for UM almost 15 years later. My career has turned out pretty well, but graduating from UM didn't mean anything in DC.
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Nothing but facts here. Law school is expensive asf especially if you don't have the job opportunities that are given to the T14
 
Nick_conlan said:
Perception of the school? Is it worth it? Any info will help
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The more important question is what do you hope to do in the legal field? If your goal is to work at a big firm, then you need to get a degree from the best school you possibly can even if that takes some sacrifices (paying more, moving to a new area, waiting a year or transferring, etc). If you're just looking at our state, the top school is UF, hands down; then I personally would say Stetson, then Miami/FSU tied as next tier just below Stetson, then everyone else significantly below that. There are a couple big firms in my area that won't even interview you if you went to law school in Florida and it wasn't Stetson or UF. Big firms are definitely resume whores, as someone said above. But no school in the state other than UF carries any weight nationally; and honestly UF doesn't that much either. UF in particular and also somewhat Stetson just have some panache in Florida.

But if you don't want to work at a big firm, then graduating from a good law school is not that important; or, better put, other factors should control more. I can tell you from first hand experience that in the solo practitioner world, none of us give a rat's *** what the name of the school is on your JD. It doesn't even 1% reflect how good of a lawyer you are. I knew I wanted to have my own practice as working at a big firm is the Seventh Layer of **** to me, so I selected a law school based primarily on location as I knew odds were very high that wherever I went to law school is where I'd settle down and start a family. And I was right. That's why I didn't go to Stetson even though I was accepted there. Stetson is a good law school for FL but I thought Gulfport was an absolute dump. I could never have envisioned my family living there.

I ended up at a small school in Jacksonville called Florida Coastal. I got a scholarship, I liked the campus, it was very modern, I was drawn to all the first-hand experience programs they offered (something that is exponentially more valuable than GPA/LSAT/law school when you look for your first law job... when I hire these days, I honestly don't even care where the candidates got their degree, I care how much real world experience they have as that tells me how quickly they'll be able to contribute for me / how much I'll have to hold their hand). My experience there was fantastic! I had great profs, I did really well there academically (I also was older and married which factored into that big time), I learned the basics of legal theory really well, I got a lot of good hands on experience, and most importantly, I built a strong local network. All of those factors got me where I am today, and my personal career path wouldn't have been a single step different even if I had Harvard written on my law degree. (Though as a side note, Coastal has really gone to sh-t since my time there and is very close to losing their accreditation - yet further evidence of why your law school has very little bearing unless you're trying to compete in The Resume ***** World).

Give some serious thought to what you want to actually do in the legal industry before you choose a law school. If the goal isn't big firm life, then my advice is to give other factors much more weight (location, cost, when you can get in, field-specific programs, where you already have a network built, where you can see yourself settling down, etc). Except for a few specific jobs (big firms, certain corporate counsel positions, etc) nobody cares where you went to law school anymore. All law school does is teach you how to think like a lawyer, it doesn't teach you much at all about the actual practice of law.
 
Gransapo said:
Go to the highest ranked law school you get accepted into - it matters for internships and your first job.
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Disagree 100%. If your goal is big law or federal clerkship, then yes, though it also depends on what the highest ranked school is. If your goal is criminal law, a solo shop, or most public interest type of work, then it is a combination of going to school where you want to practice and how little debt you will leave with. I know plenty of people that went to Nova with a big scholarship, got jobs at good firms, and paid off their debt much quicker than UM students with the same career trajectory.
 
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wspcane said:
Disagree 100%. If your goal is big law or federal clerkship, then yes, though it also depends on what the highest ranked school is. If your goal is criminal law, a solo shop, or most public interest type of work, then it is a combination of going to school where you want to practice and how little debt you will leave with. I know plenty of people that went to Nova with a big scholarship, got jobs at good firms, and paid off their debt much quicker than UM students with the same career trajectory.
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This. A law school’s reputation matters for your first job, namely if you want to practice big law. After, it just matters whether you can do the job.

I’m a testament to that. Went to Miami, got my first gig at a boutique firm, and now in a federal clerkship. My transcript matters, and it would have if I was applying for a Supreme Court clerkship, but you can do very, very well practicing with a JD from any Top 100 school.
 
I went to UM Law way back just after the Soia Mentschikoff Reign of Terror...Had a couple of ridiculous first year classes, like Elements....Suffice to say, she failed in her goal of making UM Law the U of Chicago of the south....

Somehow, I made Law Review....Got interviews with top local and a lot of national firms for clerkships during my time at UM....Did an internship with Judge Hoeveler clerked for Holland & Knight...At that time, would have been difficult to get those kinds of jobs coming from Nova....

Times are different now. Back then it was UM and Nova...and Nova was barely accredited....Unless you want to do federal clerkships or bang out 100 billable hour weeks at a large national firm....25 or 30 years down the road, really doesn't mean much where you went to school, other than the relationships you make there with the staff and other students....

Will agree with everyone else who mentioned the cost of Miami and the albatross of student loans....
 
Katzenboyer said:
but you can do very, very well practicing with a JD from any Top 100 school.
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If your plan is to have your own shop, you can take "Top 100" out of that sentence above. As a solo prac it doesn't matter whatsoever where you went for law school. In fact, some of the absolute worst lawyers I've crossed paths with came from some of the biggest name schools.
 
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