OT | The hardest college to get into in every state

[Canedude08]

Schnellenberger never shows up at Miami -and his AD doesn’t have a vision of big time football- and Miami is not even William & Mary, JMU or tons of other “Colonial” type schools. Ever. Football paved the way to be associated with Big East schools and later ACC schools that had far better academic reputations than Miami ever could have attained through just alumni donations, research and graduate programs offered. That association raised Miami’s standing...more so then the kids admitted. Or, you can give all the credit to Shalala...

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

According to the US News list University of Miami is #46 . Which is behind University of Florida and is 8th in the ACC and affiliates (Duke, ****, UVA, Wake, UNC, BC, GT)

Acceptance rate is one thing, but that doesn’t really matter to a blue-chip recruit looking at an ACC/SEC school.

Without football, and the previous Big East and now ACC affiliations, Miami wouldn’t be top-100 - maybe not even top-150.

Complete and utter nonsense. Football was(and remains) a nice marketing tool, but the growth of the CITY OF MIAMI had more of a role in the growth of the University than the football program. I know it's a convenient narrative pushed by idiots like Corben, but the corporate dollars started flowing when people started to realize that Miami was the gateway to the Americas, and Foote and his fundraisers started selling the University as a corporation friendly incubator of diverse talent. If the city of Miami would have stayed a sleepy southern town, and Miami football was winning, the school wouldn't have grown. It would have been a private version of Alabama. That said, the city grew, and with that growth came corporate dollars, which led to significant improvements.

By the way, Miami didn't get into the ACC merely because of football, the ACC also noted that the University was a perfect fit academically and culturally. The school was firmly in the top 70 or so BEFORE the move. The school was climbing like a rocket BEFORE that point, what Foote, Shalala and their fundraisers did in over twenty years was far more important than what happens on twelve fall saturdays. If conference affiliation was so incredibly important to a school's rise, then explain why NC State, FSU and Clemson are still jokes, despite being directly associated with UVA, Miami, Georgia Tech, Duke, UNC, etc.?

No surprise you believe that Miami is more than it was/is...but without an incredible football program it would be considerably less of an institution by all and any measure.

There’s too much nonsense in your post to waste time rebutting or even citing evidence to the contrary; you believe what you believe and nothing is going to dissuade you (That’s kind of how CIS works anyway). Admirable...the whole school loyalty thing, but it’s ignorant and wrong, too. It’s an embarrassingly naive take that only proves that you’ve definitively (and emotionally) moved from drinking the kool-aid to an intravenous drip. Plus, from where I type, the whole proving a hypothetical thing...

...but if The Ghost of Football’s past and the collegiate version of It’s a Wonderful Life’s Clarence Odbody teamed up for that thought experiment, they would prove...somewhere between 100-150...at best.

That said, I’m always astonished at the amount of Miami alumni who are afraid to give football the credit it deserves as the rocket fuel for the lift off of the university’s academic reputation. That same Alabama, that you ridicule, acknowledges this fact - as do other schools. Oh well, que sera, sera.

I think we can at least agree that US News ranks Miami behind University of Florida. Because had it not been for the booming growth of Alachua county...

Miami alums don't give football "Credit" because it would be a complete farce to do so. Football has never, and I repeat never built a major University. Ironically enough, the things that make for successful football programs don't make for successful academic institutions. There's a reason why the USNR and the AP Top 25 will never look anything alike. There's a reason why Miami is part of a very small pool of truly academically orientated institutions that have found success in multiple revenue sports. By the way, your big breaking news item about UF being ranked ahead of MIami is a joke. 42nd vs 46th with those rankings is separated by DECIMAL POINTS. In other words, the difference between Miami and UF is basically seen as mere semantics, with both schools offering differing things. Frankly, I wouldn't be shocked if Miami's retrenchment following Dr. Frenk's hire isn't a reason why Miami fell behind UF.

The typical non-alum wants to feel that their only true love(football) is the reason why the school exists, to justify their short sighted and ignorant thought process behind how the school should be managed. Educated people, who understand that no one is writing huge checks for football, those checks ARE being written for big research projects, for medical stuff, etc. know that football has a place, and we should make sure that place fits within the larger purpose of the institution.

I dunno abut that. Notre Dame was a nothing school in rural Indiana until the legend that Rockne created and the school becoming the rallying bastion of Catholicism.

Even if ND is the one exception(and that "Legend" was first built almost 100 years ago), there were other things going on with ND that helped make them a destination for Catholics. Remember, outside of BC and some schools on the East Coast, there weren't many big name Catholic institutions, and for a group that had been discriminated against for centuries, ND provided an option. ND had a run of great Presidents, that allowed the school to grow and thrive in an era in which competition wasn't nearly as strong. Miami was just getting off the ground by the time ND started to build their Rockne legend, a lot changed by 1980 or so, as Miami started to climb. Frankly, Miami's early struggles slowed the institution's development because the school had to pay bills, and couldn't afford to do certain things.

 

[hotshot]

I still say that without football, ND would never have become the institution it is today, or was in the first half of the 20th century. To me,fair to say football built ND.

As for UM, without football we could well have become the University of Tampa. There were many parallels between the two schools (founded around the same time, both starting in an old hotel, playing each other in football and basketball, being Independents, etc). Quality of football eventually separated the two.

 

[5XNC]

Has nothing to do with football. Players don’t get in Under the same guidelines as regular students at any school. Be qualified and be an 3-5 Star and you’re getting admitted. It’s not some prestigious thing that a recruit gets in b/c u show him it’s a tough school to get into.

 

[Canedude08]

I still say that without football, ND would never have become the institution it is today, or was in the first half of the 20th century. To me,fair to say football built ND.

As for UM, without football we could well have become the University of Tampa. There were many parallels between the two schools (founded around the same time, both starting in an old hotel, playing each other in football and basketball, being Independents, etc). Quality of football eventually separated the two.

Fundamental difference between Miami and UTampa. Miami decided at one point to become a major research institution, and started fundraising on that premise, Tampa didn't, they chose to remain a small, liberal arts school. They never added a medical school, they never made the commitment to becoming a school in which the sciences ruled the roost. When you combine that with how the city of Miami grew, and how Foote and his fundraisers were able to attract corporate dollars based on said growth, it is easy to see how UMiami grew. Football is a nice marketing tool, but it's only that, you have to make your hay on the academic side, especially in research. Miami is one of a few schools that combines high level academics with a solid athletic department.

 

[Canedude08]

Has nothing to do with football. Players don’t get in Under the same guidelines as regular students at any school. Be qualified and be an 3-5 Star and you’re getting admitted. It’s not some prestigious thing that a recruit gets in b/c u show him it’s a tough school to get into.

You have a point, but it goes more into the concept that "If ball doesn't work out, your degree will matter." Schools that tend to be selective tend to have better reputations than those that pretty much take everyone that applies. For some top level kids, their Plan B matters(It should matter to every student-athlete, but you can't fix stupid). Miami sells that to kids, the fact that if you stay, the school will make sure you leave with not only a degree, but a somewhat marketable one, if you are willing to work.

 

[hotshot]

I guess Dexter Manley at OK State is a good case in point. Dude was a fun guy and a helluva DE in college and in the NFL but ... couldn't read a lick when he left the Cowpokes.

 

[5XNC]

If ball doesn’t work out ex athletes will get a chance because they’re ex UM football players with half a brain, not b/c they have a degree from UM.

 

[daytonacane]

Original, I never missed a home game as a student; never saw an away game in person until after I graduated and moved to the DC area. There were NO day games at the OB that I can remember. So, no sweltering in daytime heat and humidity. Games were played on Friday or Saturday nights.

The Dolphins didn't come into being until just after I graduated so the Canes were the only game in town. Well, maybe I can't say that because I also was in an OB crowd in 1965 where Gables played Miami High in front of over 40,000. No joke!

The teams were pretty average but as an Independent trying to attract the Miami Beach tourist dollar, they usually played top drawer, "name" opponents. That contributed to the usual 5-5 record (occasionally a game worse or better as to record). George Mira was there my first couple years. One very nice season, one very disappointing. Since the head coach's connections were all in Pittsburgh/Western Pa, that's where the bulk of the good players came from. No FAMUs or Savannah State's on the schedule.

As for the crowds, like now, the OB would sell out for ND or UF. Good crowds for LSU, Auburn, GT etc. Weaker crowds for Vandy, Indiana, and that level of team. Fraternities were huge on campus and more so at the games. The Band of the Hour would play "Dixie" and the frat boys would wave the Stars and Bars Confederate flag. That always made me laugh -- Northerners "pretending" they were at a "southern school."

No black athletes at all while I was at UM. Our first Black player arrived in 1967. Why? The Admin's answer was always that "the SEC and other southern schools would not play us" if we had an integrated team. That was a HUGE missed opportunity since we were an Independent and could still have played top schools.

Thanks for the history lesson.

Such a different experience for me when I attended, but it’s important to hear the experiences of a different bygone era.

It is a different place now, and it was one of the first universities to change in the “south” that’s for sure. That’s before my time, but I guess Miami, the school and the city, in the very early 60’s and before, was more “south” than what we think of Miami now.

I was there between 1957 - 61 and most of the students were from the north. Very few native Floridians or students from the south.

 

[TheEye]

SIAP. Surprised that Miami's acceptance rate isn't lower.

The hardest college to get into in every state - Business Insider

38.2%?!?? I too am surprised that it's so high and that that's good enough to be best in the state!

A lot of people don't bother to apply with our tuition rate. However, I heard after the Game Day on campus, applications went through the roof.

 

[hotshot]

Hard to get walk-ons with that tuition rate. State schools have huge advantage in that regard.

 

[1mg of Epi]

Arizona is a massively underrated state when it comes to widespread stupidity. People always defaulting to Mississippi or West Virginia too quickly. I guess widespread inbreeding tilts general perceptions.

I see a pattern with the schools that associate themselves with Christianity on that list (outside of ND)

Didn’t mean to downvote

 

[osguzman]

I still say that without football, ND would never have become the institution it is today, or was in the first half of the 20th century. To me,fair to say football built ND.

As for UM, without football we could well have become the University of Tampa. There were many parallels between the two schools (founded around the same time, both starting in an old hotel, playing each other in football and basketball, being Independents, etc). Quality of football eventually separated the two.

Fundamental difference between Miami and UTampa. Miami decided at one point to become a major research institution, and started fundraising on that premise, Tampa didn't, they chose to remain a small, liberal arts school. They never added a medical school, they never made the commitment to becoming a school in which the sciences ruled the roost. When you combine that with how the city of Miami grew, and how Foote and his fundraisers were able to attract corporate dollars based on said growth, it is easy to see how UMiami grew. Football is a nice marketing tool, but it's only that, you have to make your hay on the academic side, especially in research. Miami is one of a few schools that combines high level academics with a solid athletic department.

Major universities have a symbiotic relationship with the city in which they reside. Those sunny Orange Bowl games in early January undoubtedly played a role in attracting some people to the City of Miami and the excellence on the field absolutely attracted some to the school. But, to ignore the dozens of other and more important factors that contributed to the school's rise and assert that without the football program it would somehow be some run-of-the-mill institution is ludicrous.

If you look at any list of academic rankings you quickly see that the correlation between the nearest city's GDP is far stronger than with football excellence where there is essentially none. The majority of school's in the top tier have terrible football programs if they have them at all. Those that do have great programs are also either in major urban centers or possess some critical historical factors.

No better example to refute the Football Excellence => ACC ==> Academic Excellence through Association (?) fallacy than FSU. FSU has been nearly on par in terms of football excellence over the past 25 years and joined the ACC more than a decade before us, but is still considered a pretty mediocre academic institution.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

Original, I never missed a home game as a student; never saw an away game in person until after I graduated and moved to the DC area. There were NO day games at the OB that I can remember. So, no sweltering in daytime heat and humidity. Games were played on Friday or Saturday nights.

The Dolphins didn't come into being until just after I graduated so the Canes were the only game in town. Well, maybe I can't say that because I also was in an OB crowd in 1965 where Gables played Miami High in front of over 40,000. No joke!

The teams were pretty average but as an Independent trying to attract the Miami Beach tourist dollar, they usually played top drawer, "name" opponents. That contributed to the usual 5-5 record (occasionally a game worse or better as to record). George Mira was there my first couple years. One very nice season, one very disappointing. Since the head coach's connections were all in Pittsburgh/Western Pa, that's where the bulk of the good players came from. No FAMUs or Savannah State's on the schedule.

As for the crowds, like now, the OB would sell out for ND or UF. Good crowds for LSU, Auburn, GT etc. Weaker crowds for Vandy, Indiana, and that level of team. Fraternities were huge on campus and more so at the games. The Band of the Hour would play "Dixie" and the frat boys would wave the Stars and Bars Confederate flag. That always made me laugh -- Northerners "pretending" they were at a "southern school."

No black athletes at all while I was at UM. Our first Black player arrived in 1967. Why? The Admin's answer was always that "the SEC and other southern schools would not play us" if we had an integrated team. That was a HUGE missed opportunity since we were an Independent and could still have played top schools.

Thanks for the history lesson.

Such a different experience for me when I attended, but it’s important to hear the experiences of a different bygone era.

It is a different place now, and it was one of the first universities to change in the “south” that’s for sure. That’s before my time, but I guess Miami, the school and the city, in the very early 60’s and before, was more “south” than what we think of Miami now.

I was there between 1957 - 61 and most of the students were from the north. Very few native Floridians or students from the south.

Always good to here from my antecedents at the U.

It’s all a part of the history.

The area, the city, and the University have all changed. I certainly attended in a completely different era. But we all share one thing. Our love of the U. And our hate of the gator.

 

[simplycanes]

SIAP. Surprised that Miami's acceptance rate isn't lower.

The hardest college to get into in every state - Business Insider

We need the dues.

 

[Canedude08]

Hard to get walk-ons with that tuition rate. State schools have huge advantage in that regard.

The kind of walkons you get at Miami are far different than what you see at the typical large state school. That said, Miami has managed to get some solid walkons that have gotten generous academic scholarships, to offset the cost.