OT: Meanwhile, at the Hard Rock Casino in Hollywood, FL (Seminole Reservation)

[Coach Macho]

Cops have never prevented violence. They have always been proactive and not reactive. No one cares how they feel, tbh

Ehhh, I don't know about all that. Their pure presence prevents at least some violence.
How else do you explain the substantial increase in crime all over American cities within the past month?

 

[DTP]

Ehhh, I don't know about all that. Their pure presence prevents at least some violence.
How else do you explain the substantial increase in crime all over American cities within the past month?

Active police presence has been shown to deter crime. Unfortunately in areas where most of the crimes occur the police are far from active. Police in the US are often reactive instead of proactive. Showing up to a crime scene sometimes hours after it took place to log it in a journal does nothing to prevent crime. Actively patrolling areas, especially high crime areas will prevent crimes. Most cops aren’t interested in walking the beat, especially in the hood but if they’re not actively preventing crimes, they’re not making a positive impact. Arresting people after the fact is just putting a bandaid on a larger problem. We need to prevent crimes from happening.

 

[ithacane]

Active police presence has been shown to deter crime. Unfortunately in areas where most of the crimes occur the police are far from active. Police in the US are often reactive instead of proactive. Showing up to a crime scene sometimes hours after it took place to log it in a journal does nothing to prevent crime. Actively patrolling areas, especially high crime areas will prevent crimes. Most cops aren’t interested in walking the beat, especially in the hood but if they’re not actively preventing crimes, they’re not making a positive impact. Arresting people after the fact is just putting a bandaid on a larger problem. We need to prevent crimes from happening.

Agreed... but I’m guessing most would agree that the current environment in larger cities the opposite is happening from all the protests and calls to defund the police.

I’m not sure there’s much of an effect on the Indian Reservation, but maybe that’s always been the case that there’s not much of a police presence at a casino (similar to being on a cruise ship with just the onboard security).

Also... I’m not sure if it was signed by DiBlasio, but wasn’t there something about cutting the NYPD budget by $1 billion or something. That can’t do anything to help boost moral during a time like this. It seems like police are going to be backing off in more and more situations than before (and the spikes in homicide rates in many cities seems to be evidence that that is true).

 

[imyrhuckleberry]

I never made it out to the tents. I was in the drunk tank for two days before I got bailed out. Every other person who had the same charges as me got ROR but the judge told me and my friends that we were "flight risks" because we were from Florida so I had to get bailed out. Who TF is going to run from some first offender weed charges?

Ahhh . . . the tents . . . in south Phoenix . . . on New Year's Eve . . . under a canopy of bullets raining down from above . . . huddled together in the concrete latrines . . .

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

Their pure presence prevents at least some violence.

You know what else prevents violence, better schools & employment opportunities. More police presence just exacerbates the problem. Chicago put an extra 1200 cops on the street on July 4th weekend, and 87 people still got shot & 17 killed. I'd rather just Defund The Police and put those funds where they're really needed.

 

[DTP]

Agreed... but I’m guessing most would agree that the current environment in larger cities the opposite is happening from all the protests and calls to defund the police.

I’m not sure there’s much of an effect on the Indian Reservation, but maybe that’s always been the case that there’s not much of a police presence at a casino (similar to being on a cruise ship with just the onboard security).

Also... I’m not sure if it was signed by DiBlasio, but wasn’t there something about cutting the NYPD budget by $1 billion or something. That can’t do anything to help boost moral during a time like this. It seems like police are going to be backing off in more and more situations than before (and the spikes in homicide rates in many cities seems to be evidence that that is true).

The Indian reservation employs their own police force. The local county sheriffs and police departments don’t have any jurisdiction on the reservation

 

[DTP]

Ahhh . . . the tents . . . in south Phoenix . . . on New Year's Eve . . . under a canopy of bullets raining down from above . . . huddled together in the concrete latrines . . .

Honestly, when the CO came to get me out of the drunk tank, I swore she was calling to take me to the tents and I was ****ting a brick. When she told me my bail had been posted it was the ultimate relief

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

Also... I’m not sure if it was signed by DiBlasio, but wasn’t there something about cutting the NYPD budget by $1 billion or something. That can’t do anything to help boost moral during a time like this.

NYPD has an operating budget of $5B, they'll be alright. And those same cops have cost the city over $300M in police misconduct settlements the last 5 years, do you know how many kids they could've sent to College for over $300M? So yeah, IDGAF about their morale, ******* their feelings.

 

[NC_Canes_11]

60% of guns used in Chicago come from Indiana which has lax gun laws, and BTW Indiana is ran by Republicans:

View attachment 123608

So why isn’t Indiana a bloodbath like Chicago? This is exactly the point people in this thread are making. You spin what’s going on to fit your political views.

 

[NC_Canes_11]

But still requires a federal background check, correct?

Regardless of how lax the laws are, it's the lack of prosecution that makes them ineffective. Prosecutors would rather close a case that can be done quickly than prosecute one that takes time. We need to look at why gun cases get overlooked.

Yes. No one in this country can walk into a place and leave with a firearm in 15 minutes unless you already have a permit. Federal law says you have to pass a background check. The laws aren’t lax, they are just under a microscope.

 

[ithacane]

NYPD has an operating budget of $5B, they'll be alright. And those same cops have cost the city over $300M in police misconduct settlements the last 5 years, do you know how many kids they could've sent to College for over $300M? So yeah, IDGAF about their morale, ******* their feelings.

You know that’s all fine and dandy. But here’s a hypothetical for ya...

say you are in NYC for some reason and you are in need of police help (i.e.: you are being attacked). I’m guessing at that point you’d be wishing the police actually cared about you, right?

It’s similar to another situation where a mayor or someone in office was encouraging the protesters (which became rioters in the evening). Then when it got close to their home, they were pleading for the police to save them.

You hate them until you need them... how convenient

And trust me... I’m not a fan of most cops who just write chicken **** tickets to hit their quota. And there’s more than a few bad cops out there. But I’d take a wild guess and say that police IS a good thing and you might need them to help u one day

 

[NC_Canes_11]

You know that’s all fine and dandy. But here’s a hypothetical for ya...

say you are in NYC for some reason and you are in need of police help (i.e.: you are being attacked). I’m guessing at that point you’d be wishing the police actually cared about you, right?

It’s similar to another situation where a mayor or someone in office was encouraging the protesters (which became rioters in the evening). Then when it got close to their home, they were pleading for the police to save them.

You hate them until you need them... how convenient

And trust me... I’m not a fan of most cops who just write chicken **** tickets to hit their quota. And there’s more than a few bad cops out there. But I’d take a wild guess and say that police IS a good thing and you might need them to help u one day

Kind of like the city council in Minneapolis who want to disband the entire department, yet have armed police guard their houses

 

[Salt]

You know what else prevents violence, better schools & employment opportunities. More police presence just exacerbates the problem. Chicago put an extra 1200 cops on the street on July 4th weekend, and 87 people still got shot & 17 killed. I'd rather just Defund The Police and put those funds where they're really needed.

Throwing money at schools has never worked. And investing in businesses in poor inner cities to create employment opportunities is too risky when those areas are the first to get ransacked and looted at the first sign of civil unrest. Now you want to add defunding law enforcement to the mix? Insanity.

Look at the percentage of criminals coming from fatherless homes. Start there. Calls to dismantle the nuclear family will not help that situation.

 

[NC_Canes_11]

Cops have never prevented violence. They have always been proactive and not reactive. No one cares how they feel, tbh

While I don’t agree with it, “Stop and Frisk” was the most successful police policy to ever be implemented. That policy literally prevented violence and is the definition of proactive.

 

[ithacane]

Throwing money at schools has never worked. And investing in businesses in poor inner cities to create employment opportunities is too risky when those areas are the first to get ransacked and looted at the first sign of civil unrest. Now you want to add defunding law enforcement to the mix? Insanity.

Look at the percentage of criminals coming from fatherless homes. Start there. Calls to dismantle the nuclear family will not help that situation.

It’s amazing what good parenting and family does for individuals. It seems like it should be brought up more... but politicians (in at least the two main parties) won’t touch it with a ten foot pole

 

[Suhrthing]

You know what else prevents violence, better schools & employment opportunities. More police presence just exacerbates the problem. Chicago put an extra 1200 cops on the street on July 4th weekend, and 87 people still got shot & 17 killed. I'd rather just Defund The Police and put those funds where they're really needed.

Lol. You know what promotes better schools and employment opportunities? Investment. You know what keeps investment out...? Do the math.

 

[DTP]

Well since we’re getting into proactive tactics, how about we legalize all drugs? Almost all violent crime is due to drug prohibition. How do you think gangs and violent cartels have the money to arm themselves with all these guns? Take away their racket and there’s no more revenue. The more law enforcement cracks down on drugs, the higher the stakes get and the more money the dealers make. Keeping drugs illegal only ensures that violent criminals will keep having tons of cash to wage wars with other violent criminals. The innocent people caught in the middle are just casualties of war. It’s quite obvious that making drugs illegal isn’t stopping people from doing them.

 

[Gatorhater]

Great question. Idk the answers to all this stuff. I know we all grew up differently. And that reality for people is very different depending on where you live at.

The Hood, the trailer parks , the mansions, the middle class. We all live different realities. It’s usually very difficult for a person from one of those groups to understand or relate to the others from a different environment unless they came from that.

Put yourself in 8 year old inner city kids shoes for just a second, where danger is around every corner.

Rapist, Robbers, Killers, Pimps, Dealers, Gangs, Drugs And fiends all run rampant. You just want to simply walk to the store and buy some chips in peace.

You’re trying to live your life on the straight and narrow. Just living to 18 is a big accomplishment for you...... want to go to college.

On your walk to the store, your paranoid. Lots of drive bys in your community, so you watching every car that passes you closely. Get to the store and the robbers rob you at gunpoint for your little $20.

Now you gotta walk back to the house. It’s some dudes from a neighborhood that hates your neighborhood approach you ask where you from. They jump you 6 vs 1. Now you got knots and bruises and face a little bloody.

Your not a street guy or a tough guy. Just a kid trying to live like everyone else.

Finally get back to your block and some deranged fiend stabs you hoping that you’ve got some extra money so he can get a fix.

If you are this 8 year old kid what are you to do?

1. Your neighborhood arms dealer is around? You go try to rake leaves, Mow peoples yard, shovel snow in hopes you can make enough to buy a piece?

2. The gang in your neighborhood is recruiting you at that age. Offering protection where you don’t have to get jumped anymore, beat on, they got guns, and ways for you to earn money. And you get the “family” aspect by having 100+ other gang members who all are willing to do whatever. Do you join?

3. Do you hope and pray you make it to 18? Going to church with mom on Sundays. Trying to play sports to avoid all the ****. Practice keeps you out the neighborhood more?

4. Some other choice?

Curious what you guys on this board think or would do if you are that child?

Very instructive, thank you. It is almost silly for someone to think they can "pretend" to walk in someone else's shoes. I grew up in mixed North Dade neighbor hood which had some racial tension but no real violence. Most of the black families moving into our area were trying to flee what you are talking about. 50 years ago there was little if any understanding of what you speak.

I went to school in Opa Locka which bad then but not like now. I did work from a young age with my Dad in grocery stores in the type hoods you speak. They were dangerous but no where near like today. It did make me aware that there was a different life and poverty from the poverty I experienced. As bad as that was it has gotten massively worse despite what appears to be improvement in opportunities and success for many. What troubles me is that for so many it has gotten worse. Nothing has worked yet. FDR said thing like that don't just happen, someone plans them. Maybe I am just simple minded but it seems we need to know who and why in order to have a chance to change it.

As for that 8 year old, my dad's family has been in America since 1730's and I do know what he would have a did do: arm the kid. Not the popular answer and certainly not a good answer but better than joining a gang. It is a horrible solution and people better than me would not do it, I'd never let my kid go as sheep to the slaughter without some sort of a chance.

You post is very moving. Good work.

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

While I don’t agree with it, “Stop and Frisk” was the most successful police policy to ever be implemented. That policy literally prevented violence and is the definition of proactive.

Uhhhhh, crime was actually going down in NYC before Stop & Frisk was implemented. Funny thing about Stop & Frisk in NYC is more white guys got caught with illegal handguns than "minorities", probably one of the main reasons they scrapped it.

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

Well since we’re getting into proactive tactics, how about we legalize all drugs? Almost all violent crime is due to drug prohibition. How do you think gangs and violent cartels have the money to arm themselves with all these guns? Take away their racket and there’s no more revenue. The more law enforcement cracks down on drugs, the higher the stakes get and the more money the dealers make. Keeping drugs illegal only ensures that violent criminals will keep having tons of cash to wage wars with other violent criminals. The innocent people caught in the middle are just casualties of war. It’s quite obvious that making drugs illegal isn’t stopping people from doing them.

That's why I think what's going on in Chicago is a drug war, not a gang war. I read somewhere that Chicago is a major hub point for Mexican heroin, yet something like less than 5% of the homicides are drug related?...nahhhhhh, that doesn't jibe with me.