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OT: Jimmy Buckets to the Heat

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305to954 said:
So..your under the delusion that Jimmy Butler is better than kat and AD..because of TEAM RESULTS..AD Is a top 5 player & and Kat is the best unknown secret to casual fans in the league and is like 25..a player making a playoff appearance or advancing doesn’t make him better..Kilmer Butler for instance was on the same team as Kat. That team struggled with him so much they traded him and kept kat..and lastly nobody outside of some delusional heat fans think annually being a 4th or 5 seed with a 30 year old maxed out Jimmy Butler is good lol..there’s not much difference between the 6-8 spot in the east and being a 4th or 5th seed at best..the best option would’ve have been save the money, wait for contracts to expire or manually create more cap space and wait it out..or **** do both and tank
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Explain to me where I said Butler was better or a top tier.

Your missing on so many levels it’s hard to know where to start.

**whose better is irrvelant in the context of the Heat and FA today. Since Kat and AD are under contract so let’s not lose site.

1) you said “save money” the Heat wouldn’t be saving money. They already have one of the highest payrolls in the NBA. Google it. So there is no saving money for them. It’s only getting more bang for their buck. So yes finishing 4-5 is better than finishing in the lottery with their payroll.

2) you said wait for contracts to expire so spend the next 2 years at the back of the lottery. How is that better Than the move made today?

3) manually create cap space...what do you think they just did? They signed a max player without any space available.

4) there is no tank with this organization ppl need to move on from that all together it’s not an option with them.

5) if you’ve been paying attention since the LeBron Heat Era. The league is all about “teaming up” with other friends and super stars. It doesn’t matter if Fans don’t think Jimmy Butler is a tier 1 Star. He’s connected and has relationships with the top players in the game and through those relationships it makes the Heat a more attractive FA destination.

So in context the heat get more value for the money they are already spending. And are in a better position to build a contender faster.
 
Dghustla said:
Explain to me where I said Butler was better or a top tier.

Your missing on so many levels it’s hard to know where to start.

**whose better is irrvelant in the context of the Heat and FA today. Since Kat and AD are under contract so let’s not lose site.

1) you said “save money” the Heat wouldn’t be saving money. They already have one of the highest payrolls in the NBA. Google it. So there is no saving money for them. It’s only getting more bang for their buck. So yes finishing 4-5 is better than finishing in the lottery with their payroll.

2) you said wait for contracts to expire so spend the next 2 years at the back of the lottery. How is that better Than the move made today?

3) manually create cap space...what do you think they just did? They signed a max player without any space available.

4) there is no tank with this organization ppl need to move on from that all together it’s not an option with them.

5) if you’ve been paying attention since the LeBron Heat Era. The league is all about “teaming up” with other friends and super stars. It doesn’t matter if Fans don’t think Jimmy Butler is a tier 1 Star. He’s connected and has relationships with the top players in the game and through those relationships it makes the Heat a more attractive FA destination.

So in context the heat get more value for the money they are already spending. And are in a better position to build a contender faster.
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Agreed. People forget the last time the Heat tanked they ended up with Michael Beasley lol Riley will never do that again. And remember the NBA just decreased the incentive to tank. Look at the Knicks thinking they had Zion in the bag and they ended up with the 3rd pick.
 
Need much more than Butler but considering that you are wasting a max money contract on Whiteside, you have to unload something to be relevant. Acquiring Butler at least solves the issue of having a veteran leader that can be an anchor to attract a new piece once Whiteside is gone. Step 2 is Riley magic; trying to attract the best player available next year since no one is stupid enough to pick up Hassan’s contract right now.
 
Dghustla said:
Nope that’s wrong https://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami_heat/

Only Whiteside and Goran come off at the end of 19. Johnson has a player option and with his age and decking performance he will certainly accept it and Waiters has 2 full years left on this deal. If all the heat gave up was Jrich this a no brainer.

Ppl keep saying develop it’s the NBA. It doesn’t take long to assert yourself as an all star in the league if u have the game. J Rich and Justise will never be those guys. Look around the league at the young talent for example Trea young, Donovan Mitchell, Tatum, brogdan, Simmons, **** look at D. booker who was on Justises class. All those guys have flashed without needing 5+ years of development. It didn’t take d wade to 5 years to make an impact in the league.

This move was needed to attract a star player when we do have the space. With tried to sign Durant and Haywood with no one on the roster it didn’t work.
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My bad for misspeaking on the contracts, I thought Johnson and Waiters were gone after this season too. I never said J. Rich or Winslow need more time to become star players. They're already players that can be solid contributers on a championship team. Another year of development would have been beneficial for both.

Jimmy Butler is not the guy I would use as the bait to attract other star players. The man is injury prone. He has a history of being a bad teammate and creating toxic lockerrooms. He was in Philly for half of a season and they were already having problems with him. Having two max openings, the ability to live in Miami, play in a no-tax state, and the Heat Culture would've been enough to lure those star players here. Look how Brooklyn became a contender overnight. The NBA is different man, anything can litterally happen. Just have to be patient enough to wait your turn and opportunistic enough to seize it.
 
Stylie said:
Miami needs more than Butler. Butler gets Miami into the playoffs and then what? They'd be out in the first round.
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Its not your turn on the carousel, bud. Just need to find what is acceptable right now.

Give Jimmy Butler a few years of sunshine and jacking up all sorts of shots before you tear it apart and go for the real rebuild.
 
Cane4life18 said:
My bad for misspeaking on the contracts, I thought Johnson and Waiters were gone after this season too. I never said J. Rich or Winslow need more time to become star players. They're already players that can be solid contributers on a championship team. Another year of development would have been beneficial for both.

Jimmy Butler is not the guy I would use as the bait to attract other star players. The man is injury prone. He has a history of being a bad teammate and creating toxic lockerrooms. He was in Philly for half of a season and they were already having problems with him. Having two max openings, the ability to live in Miami, play in a no-tax state, and the Heat Culture would've been enough to lure those star players here. Look how Brooklyn became a contender overnight. The NBA is different man, anything can litterally happen. Just have to be patient enough to wait your turn and opportunistic enough to seize it.
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After the way Riley unraveled when LeBron left, he turned off a lot of players. Say what you will about LeBron he's very respected by the players and players take note. Add in the fact that we didn't pay Wade and that was why you weren't seeing top free agents even taking meetings with Miami. Bringing Wade back and letting him go out the way he did has already attracted Butler so it puts Miami back in play for top free agents next year.
 
Cane4life18 said:
My bad for misspeaking on the contracts, I thought Johnson and Waiters were gone after this season too. I never said J. Rich or Winslow need more time to become star players. They're already players that can be solid contributers on a championship team. Another year of development would have been beneficial for both.

Jimmy Butler is not the guy I would use as the bait to attract other star players. The man is injury prone. He has a history of being a bad teammate and creating toxic lockerrooms. He was in Philly for half of a season and they were already having problems with him. Having two max openings, the ability to live in Miami, play in a no-tax state, and the Heat Culture would've been enough to lure those star players here. Look how Brooklyn became a contender overnight. The NBA is different man, anything can litterally happen. Just have to be patient enough to wait your turn and opportunistic enough to seize it.
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The league is different in a sense but that was the perfect storm for the Nets. Kyrie and KD were planning on going to the Knicks for almost a year. It some happened that Nets young core of players and their coach flashed enough to be a more a more attractive landing spot in the same market that both wanted to get to.

Jimmy Butler has a reputation of being a bad teammate to younger players he views as entitled. DWade is fond of him and so are the players on the USA team.

I agree He not carrying a team to championship and not even on a deep playoff run, but honestly there is only one guy in the league who has proven he can take almost anyone to the finals and that’s LeBron. Everyone else has to have really good pieces in place or have a great overall team.
 
moshated305 said:
After the way Riley unraveled when LeBron left, he turned off a lot of players. Say what you will about LeBron he's very respected by the players and players take note. Add in the fact that we didn't pay Wade and that was why you weren't seeing top free agents even taking meetings with Miami. Bringing Wade back and letting him go out the way he did has already attracted Butler so it puts Miami back in play for top free agents next year.
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How much Riley needed this win, cannot be understated. This guy was known as an elite closer on the FA trail, from zo, Juan, Odom, Bosh, LeBron, you name it. And he just about ****ed away all of his credibility in 2 off season.
 
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Cane4life18 said:
My bad for misspeaking on the contracts, I thought Johnson and Waiters were gone after this season too. I never said J. Rich or Winslow need more time to become star players. They're already players that can be solid contributers on a championship team. Another year of development would have been beneficial for both.

Jimmy Butler is not the guy I would use as the bait to attract other star players. The man is injury prone. He has a history of being a bad teammate and creating toxic lockerrooms. He was in Philly for half of a season and they were already having problems with him. Having two max openings, the ability to live in Miami, play in a no-tax state, and the Heat Culture would've been enough to lure those star players here. Look how Brooklyn became a contender overnight. The NBA is different man, anything can litterally happen. Just have to be patient enough to wait your turn and opportunistic enough to seize it.
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When you are an attractive destination, only toxic management will prevent signing players.

In my lifetime, the teams with the greatest ability to consistently sign star free agents are the Lakers and the Heat.

Magic used to be a hot destination but they screeed that up.

The Heat ain’t Milwaukee or Denver. All they need is money. All stars will sign. Been like that since Tim Hardaway and Zo.
 
BoxingRobes said:
Its not your turn on the carousel, bud. Just need to find what is acceptable right now.

Give Jimmy Butler a few years of sunshine and jacking up all sorts of shots before you tear it apart and go for the real rebuild.
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If he even lasts that long. History shows he’ll implode. Not the best teammate. Should had stayed in Philly.
 
Dghustla said:
Explain to me where I said Butler was better or a top tier.

Your missing on so many levels it’s hard to know where to start.

**whose better is irrvelant in the context of the Heat and FA today. Since Kat and AD are under contract so let’s not lose site.

1) you said “save money” the Heat wouldn’t be saving money. They already have one of the highest payrolls in the NBA. Google it. So there is no saving money for them. It’s only getting more bang for their buck. So yes finishing 4-5 is better than finishing in the lottery with their payroll.

2) you said wait for contracts to expire so spend the next 2 years at the back of the lottery. How is that better Than the move made today?

3) manually create cap space...what do you think they just did? They signed a max player without any space available.

4) there is no tank with this organization ppl need to move on from that all together it’s not an option with them.

5) if you’ve been paying attention since the LeBron Heat Era. The league is all about “teaming up” with other friends and super stars. It doesn’t matter if Fans don’t think Jimmy Butler is a tier 1 Star. He’s connected and has relationships with the top players in the game and through those relationships it makes the Heat a more attractive FA destination.

So in context the heat get more value for the money they are already spending. And are in a better position to build a contender faster.
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I can read and comprehend..
You said ad and kat are soft in the head and haven’t made or advanced in the playoffs. Which implies you think that had something to do with their own individual talent..as if Jimmy Butler starting off his career in Chicago with drose and Noah along with good coaching a better support had nothing to do with that.

Then take a look at the players who are leading the linking up scenarios Steph..KD..lebron..maybe Kawhi..all those players have gravitas to them..they are the top guys..jimmy ain’t that..matter of fact those guys I named are very much his peers. Ain’t nobody taking less to team up with Jimmy Butler in miami..Jimmy was after the bag. I can’t blame him. Part of the reason why he was traded from Minnesota was because they knew he wasn’t staying for anything less than the max same as Chicago .. Like I said the heat was just dumb enough to offer it to him

When I said saving money I mean for the next 4 years by making smart roster moves. In the meantime don’t give Jimmy Butler a max deal over 5 years. That leaves you with less roster flexibility. You still have dragic on a deal nobody will touch and your likely to bring back whitside next year or wait until 2021/22 for a new close to max spot to free up..meanwhile Both are on contacts nobody will entertain unless you offer draft assets

Lastly, the heat didn’t create cap space on this move. It was j Rich, who was on a lesser deal for Jimmy straight up along with lesser contracts of Kelly and jones..the team that saved space was actually philly..the heat have been eying Jimmy Butler for like 3 years now

So the heat will be in basketball purgatory, annually in the 4th or 5th seed..the new Atlanta hawks from 2009-16..**** even they Learned and got them a young star out of the lottery along with the 8th and 10 pick guys
 
TruCane81 said:
When you are an attractive destination, only toxic management will prevent signing players.

In my lifetime, the teams with the greatest ability to consistently sign star free agents are the Lakers and the Heat.

Magic used to be a hot destination but they screeed that up.

The Heat ain’t Milwaukee or Denver. All they need is money. All stars will sign. Been like that since Tim Hardaway and Zo.
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Both Tim hardaway and so were trades..on FA heat have allured was bosh. Bron was technically a trade
 
moshated305 said:
Agreed. People forget the last time the Heat tanked they ended up with Michael Beasley lol Riley will never do that again. And remember the NBA just decreased the incentive to tank. Look at the Knicks thinking they had Zion in the bag and they ended up with the 3rd pick.
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The nba is about assets and cap space unless your winning now..right now RJ Barrett is a better asset then anything on the heat and they have cap flexibility
 
CorniceCane said:
Need much more than Butler but considering that you are wasting a max money contract on Whiteside, you have to unload something to be relevant. Acquiring Butler at least solves the issue of having a veteran leader that can be an anchor to attract a new piece once Whiteside is gone. Step 2 is Riley magic; trying to attract the best player available next year since no one is stupid enough to pick up Hassan’s contract right now.
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No superstars available in 2020. Some solid vets but nobody that can take you over the top. Minus catastrophic injuries to teams in the heats path, Jimmy Butler isn’t the best player on a championship caliber team
 
305to954 said:
Both Tim hardaway and so were trades..on FA heat have allured was bosh. Bron was technically a trade
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They re signed though.

So technically you are right, but if those guys didn’t want to be there they wouldn’t have.

That’s why small market and less popular destinations don’t do Kawhi type trades.

They hardly ever keep them.
 
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The salary and endorsement money is so big now, players can chase less money.

Back in the day, the Bird exemption often convinced guys to stay. Stars had to be traded because they signed long term deals for Bird money. Still happens, but more players are going straight free agency and signing shorter deals to keep control. They have heard the criticism of guys who never won titles. They don’t want their legacy tainted like that.

The players forming their own teams has changed this dynamic and made the league a lot more mercenary like than in the past.
 
My only question with the Butler signing would be his age. Butler deal is good for today, but he turns 30 in November. What happens during the latter part of the contract when he's 33-34 years old and on the books for $50 mil per year? Not sure we'll be getting the kind of production at that age that would warrant a $40-$50 million annual salary. I like the signing, only if we're able to add another big fish (possibly Beal) with Butler. If we can only get Butler out of all of this, than no, I'd pass and wait for a younger star.
 
coachpatg said:
My only question with the Butler signing would be his age. Butler deal is good for today, but he turns 30 in November. What happens during the latter part of the contract when he's 33-34 years old and on the books for $50 mil per year? Not sure we'll be getting the kind of production at that age that would warrant a $40-$50 million annual salary. I like the signing, only if we're able to add another big fish (possibly Beal) with Butler. If we can only get Butler out of all of this, than no, I'd pass and wait for a younger star.
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Pat Riley no where near done dealing. Got to find another trade partner to take on dragic’s contract though. Hope it’s officially done soon
 
305to954 said:
Jimmy Butler is not a top tier nba player. He’s a 3rd tier star.
Tier 1:
Bron
KD
Kawhi
Ad
Steph
Giannis

Tier 2:
Kyrie
Dame
Kat
Embid


Tier 3:
Boogie
Jimmy
Klay
Simmons

The heat are a 5th maybe a 4th seed with butler as the guy. That gets you into the 2nd rd..maybe
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Dame is tirer 1

He proved that this season

You forgot harden also be is tier 1
 
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