• Attention: Register today to view CanesInSight Ad-Free for 7 days.

OT: Clemson wants fewer black students

1LuvCane

All American
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
10,733
The title is not misleading. That is what the track team says is happening. They are being "directly targeted."

As for being related to Canes football - how many posts have been made saying Clemson is a racist school and that it's unbelievable that a parent would send their kids there for football? Thousands? Now we have students at Clemson who say that the school that has dominated ACC football for the last 6 years is openly showing its racist colors- and that is unrelated?

As for being inflammatory - I forgot how many fake Canes fans are on this board and didn't realize that so many posters would rally around Dabo. My mistake. How any Canes fan could possibly be upset by reading this news is honestly baffling to me. The only two reasons I can come up with for how this could be inflammatory is 1. reading bad news about Clemson upsets you or 2. black people saying they are being mistreated triggers you. I hope it's not the latter.
dog bird GIF
 

1LuvCane

All American
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
10,733
it's not rallying around dabo to call out bullshit where you see it. racism exists, but obviously frivolous lawsuits and the mouth-breathers giving them credibility take away from real cases of racism. it's a societal problem to call anything and everything racism because it's such a ridiculously easy card to play with consequences beyond their situation.
Hard concept.....
 

TimeBum

"What is this? A center for ants?"
Joined
Nov 29, 2015
Messages
9,142
1. yes, because they provide literally nothing but conjecture in their complaint.

2. yes, unless the team can provide proof of racist motivations behind the cut. the burden of proof is on them as the accuser. now if they provide evidence that this was a racially-motivated move then heads should roll.

You say it's literally nothing but conjecture and they can't prove it. At this point, they haven't filed a lawsuit in court yet, they filed a complaint with the Dept of Education and said they are considering a lawsuit. The black students believe their is a racial component to the school's decision to cut track and not another men's sport like tennis or golf, and have requested that the Dept of Education investigate their claims so they have hard evidence if/when it comes to a lawsuit. How can they build their case it if they aren't given the opportunity to have it investigated? The black students feel discriminated but need more facts to support a lawsuit, they asked the Dept of Education to look into it, if the Dept of Education finds that there are some facts that support the allegations, then a lawsuit will be, by definition, non-frivolous.

Note that in earlier posts, you didn't say that the claims should be investigated and that heads should roll if the Dept of Education validate their allegations- you outright stated that this is "obviously frivolous", students are just playing the race card, and that this is taking away from "real cases of racism." I'm impressed that without waiting for the Dept of Education investigation to completed, you feel qualified to inform these black students that you have already determined they are crying wolf.
 
Last edited:

PCBcanefan

99 problems but FSU ain’t 1
Joined
Sep 13, 2016
Messages
1,071
The response here has really been eye opening and very unexpected. I assumed Canes fans would get a good chuckle out of any bad news for Clemson, yet a good portion of the responses boil down to "this is a frivolous claim and those black students are a bunch of desperate whiners who are just playing the race card." If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I wouldn't have believed it. The amount of "It's just playing the race card" posts is astonishing and I'm amazed at how many posters have decided they are qualified to be the judges of what is "real racism" and what isn't because they looked at pictures of the track team and saw a bunch of white athletes on the team.
It’s not about piling on Clemson and hoping for the worst. We would all like to see their program get hit, but not by possible false claims. It just doesn’t past the initial “smell test” as some would say.

First, it looks like the team is less than 25% black. So how can shutting down the whole program be targeting black students.

And second, with the way sports are having to manage things around COVID, how is starting another program for women make any sense? Shutting down one, or starting another seems like a simple choice now a days. Who knows, once the world opens back up after COVID they may start the program back up, but I doubt it.

Why the hell is everything about race or political now? Why can’t they shut down a sport as long as they are still within the rules of the ncaa?
 

JD08

Providing plump morsels of wisdom and mirth
Moderator
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
16,720
@RVACane

Bro, I'm curious why this got bumped to the off topic forum where other OT topics didn't (just glancing at the first page on eye in the sky, there are at least four or five threads that have much less connection to Miami Hurricanes football). This directly involves allegations against the school that has dominated the ACC for the last six years. My view is if it hurts Clemson, it helps Miami. Did it get moved because it triggered a number of posters or is this just housekeeping?
200.gif


First day of spring practise. It was just housekeeping.
 

TimeBum

"What is this? A center for ants?"
Joined
Nov 29, 2015
Messages
9,142
It’s not about piling on Clemson and hoping for the worst. We would all like to see their program get hit, but not by possible false claims. It just doesn’t past the initial “smell test” as some would say.

First, it looks like the team is less than 25% black. So how can shutting down the whole program be targeting black students.

And second, with the way sports are having to manage things around COVID, how is starting another program for women make any sense? Shutting down one, or starting another seems like a simple choice now a days. Who knows, once the world opens back up after COVID they may start the program back up, but I doubt it.

Why the hell is everything about race or political now? Why can’t they shut down a sport as long as they are still within the rules of the ncaa?

I don't feel qualified to tell the black students who feel they are being discriminated against that their claim doesn't pass the smell test. Apparently we have many posters who do feel qualified.


Let's say hypothetically, the school has 300 athletes between football, basketball, and all the non revenue sports. There are a total of 110 black athletes across all sports. The football team has 50 of those athletes, and of those 50,
75% are black, so that is a total of 37 black athletes on football scholarships. The basketball team has 25 athletes, and 90% of them are black, so a total of 23 black athletes.

The two revenue sports have 60 black athletes combined. The nonrevenue sports have 50 total black athletes. 60% of those black athletes from the non-revenue sports are on the track team. 25% percent of the track team is black. That means 30 black athletes on are the track team. If you cut track, then you have removed more than a quarter of all the scholarships available for black athletes (30/110=27%).

That is why the black student athletes say cutting track is having a disproportionate impact on them.

And it turns out that real percentage is higher, two-thirds of all Black male athletes on campus who do not play football or basketball are on the track team.

The black athletes on the track team claim that the school values black athletes from revenue sports over black athletes from non-revenue sports. Now that doesn't seem to be all that farfetched to me.
 

Number1CanesFan

Sophomore
Joined
Jul 30, 2016
Messages
5,702
that's a ridiculous last-gasp effort to prevent the school from cutting a revenue losing sport. it should get laughed out of court.
Are tennis, golf, swimming, and soccer revenue sports? None of the Olympic sports are. Even baseball isn't a revenue sport at a majority of schools.

People see only the narrative they want to see.
 

Number1CanesFan

Sophomore
Joined
Jul 30, 2016
Messages
5,702
I don't feel qualified to tell the black students who feel they are being discriminated against that their claim doesn't pass the smell test. Apparently we have many posters who do feel qualified.


Let's say hypothetically, the school has 300 athletes between football, basketball, and all the non revenue sports. There are a total of 110 black athletes across all sports. The football team has 50 of those athletes, and of those 50,
75% are black, so that is a total of 37 black athletes on football scholarships. The basketball team has 25 athletes, and 90% of them are black, so a total of 23 black athletes.

The two revenue sports have 60 black athletes combined. The nonrevenue sports have 50 total black athletes. 60% of those black athletes from the non-revenue sports are on the track team. 25% percent of the track team is black. That means 30 black athletes on are the track team. If you cut track, then you have removed more than a quarter of all the scholarships available for black athletes (30/110=27%).

That is why the black student athletes say cutting track is having a disproportionate impact on them.

And it turns out that real percentage is higher, two-thirds of all Black male athletes on campus who do not play football or basketball are on the track team.

The black athletes on the track team claim that the school values black athletes from revenue sports over black athletes from non-revenue sports. Now that doesn't seem to be all that farfetched to me.
Of course they do. They want to get maximum value out of the plantation workers.

Just rediculous at how much money Clemson spends on football. They could field all the Olympic sports by actually doing what they claim to be as a nonprofit entity. Get rid of the slip n slide and all the other wastefull BS and spread the money around to the other programs. Isn't the AD getting paid a King's ransom to manage the entire athletic budget?
 

Empirical Cane

We are what we repeatedly do.
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
10,270
All the kids who support Clemson by bringing their talent there are white supremacists too. Shame on you Tate!

The same is true for Alabama and the rest of the SEC. Everybody knows that those are white supremacist institutions.
Do you truly believe that?

If so, what brought you to the conclusion?
 

Empirical Cane

We are what we repeatedly do.
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
10,270
Are tennis, golf, swimming, and soccer revenue sports? None of the Olympic sports are. Even baseball isn't a revenue sport at a majority of schools.

People see only the narrative they want to see.
Those sports are being cut across a number of schools right?


Or not?
 

BoxingRobes

Junior
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
7,082
Those sports are being cut across a number of schools right?


Or not?

I was watching the College Admissions Scandal documentary on Netflix the other night.

I wonder how many schools (likely all of them) were getting fugazi donation checks for admissions to their school that were keeping these fringe/niche sports as close to the black as possible on the ledger...and now, schools are cutting those programs because the "side door" is closed because the ledger is red af?
 

Empirical Cane

We are what we repeatedly do.
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
10,270
I was watching the College Admissions Scandal documentary on Netflix the other night.

I wonder how many schools (likely all of them) were getting fugazi donation checks for admissions to their school that were keeping these fringe/niche sports as close to the black as possible on the ledger...and now, schools are cutting those programs because the "side door" is closed because the ledger is red af?
Great point.

Don't know how stylized that documentary was (a must watch), but goodness did they bring up some really strong points across the board--especially how the schools treat the "super rich" vs "just rich" types of folks.

Just adds more weight to the NCAA is rotten top to bottom obeservations.
 

CaneDawgCrew

Sophomore
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
552
You say it's literally nothing but conjecture and they can't prove it. At this point, they haven't filed a lawsuit in court yet, they filed a complaint with the Dept of Education and said they are considering a lawsuit. The black students believe their is a racial component to the school's decision to cut track and not another men's sport like tennis or golf, and have requested that the Dept of Education investigate their claims so they have hard evidence if/when it comes to a lawsuit. How can they build their case it if they aren't given the opportunity to have it investigated? The black students feel discriminated but need more facts to support a lawsuit, they asked the Dept of Education to look into it, if the Dept of Education finds that there are some facts that support the allegations, then a lawsuit will be, by definition, non-frivolous.

Note that in earlier posts, you didn't say that the claims should be investigated and that heads should roll if the Dept of Education validate their allegations- you outright stated that this is "obviously frivolous", students are just playing the race card, and that this is taking away from "real cases of racism." I'm impressed that without waiting for the Dept of Education investigation to completed, you feel qualified to inform these black students that you have already determined they are crying wolf.

I'm impressed that without waiting for the Dept of Education Investigation to be completed, you felt qualified to inform black students you have already determined they are not crying wolf. Unless, of course you were quoting an article and if so please accept my apology.


In February 2021 a Federal Civil Rights complaint was filed against Clemson University for discontinuing the men's track and field and cross country programs. The complaint alleges that Clemson University is violating Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, and national origin in programs and activities receiving federal financial assistance.

Athlete and activist Russell Dinkins worked alongside current and former Clemson athletes, alumni and parents to create the complaint, and believes that by cutting the men's track and field program, Clemson is directly targeting African American athletes on campus and the number of opportunities African American males receive therein.

----

Shame any recruit would want to go there

This is a debate where there are no winners. Everybody loses.
 

CaneDawgCrew

Sophomore
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Messages
552
Are tennis, golf, swimming, and soccer revenue sports? None of the Olympic sports are. Even baseball isn't a revenue sport at a majority of schools.

People see only the narrative they want to see.

Then....
Of course they do. They want to get maximum value out of the plantation workers.

Just rediculous at how much money Clemson spends on football. They could field all the Olympic sports by actually doing what they claim to be as a nonprofit entity. Get rid of the slip n slide and all the other wastefull BS and spread the money around to the other programs. Isn't the AD getting paid a King's ransom to manage the entire athletic budget?

You are like a prophet or something...
 

BoxingRobes

Junior
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
7,082
Great point.

Don't know how stylized that documentary was (a must watch), but goodness did they bring up some really strong points across the board--especially how the schools treat the "super rich" vs "just rich" types of folks.

Just adds more weight to the NCAA is rotten top to bottom obeservations.
I thought it was a bit light.

Did a good job on Singer...but felt there was a lot left on the table from a world building perspective. A good, season long Netflix docu-series would be needed to really even lightly flesh out the problems with higher education and the world of academia. Massively corrupt institutions beyond the NCAA.
 

Number1CanesFan

Sophomore
Joined
Jul 30, 2016
Messages
5,702

Empirical Cane

We are what we repeatedly do.
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
10,270
Has Clemson ended or proposed to end any of the Olympuc sports I mentioned? No, which is exactly the point. The plan is to end the men's running programs.
Can they not make an organizational decision that they, not anyone else, feels is in their best interest given the circumstances?
 

Number1CanesFan

Sophomore
Joined
Jul 30, 2016
Messages
5,702
Can they not make an organizational decision that they, not anyone else, feels is in their best interest given the circumstances?
GTFOH!!! You posting **** how all these Olympic sports are getting canceled. I expose that they're aren't at Clemson and this is your comeback.

Pathetic!!! Oh, and add in Lacrosse as well.
 
Top