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Offensive Line

bshaw28

Junior
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
2,665
Can someone explain the OL situation to me? I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm very nervous about our OL while everyone seems to be pretty happy about it.

My thinking is this - Here's the 4/5 star OL we've signed since 2010, and their 247 National Ranking.

17 - Donaldson (71), Herbert (255)
16 - None
15 - Milo (216), St. Louis (293)
14 - McDermott (45), Darling (93)
13 - None
12 - Flowers (159)
11 - None
10 - Henderson (2), Linder (132)

Our best OL have come from the 4/5 Star group. Some 3 stars played really well (Feliciano, Isadora), but for the most part they take a while to develop and are just contributors (Odagwu, Gall, etc.)

We're expecting Donaldson & Herbert to step right in, but the same was expected of St. Louis, McDermott, and Darling - and they all needed time to develop. What's different about Donaldson & Herbert? Flowers is the only guy I remember being good right away (but I could be remembering wrong). I know people are high on Brown & Gaynor - but Brown was ranked 471 overall & Gaynor was not ranked nationally and just 170 in FL.

I thought we needed 3 or 4 4/5 star OL in this class and we got 2. To me - 2017 doesn't look much different than any other year. We got 2 4 Star OL, and a couple 3 Star OL with potential we're excited about.

It was popular to say "2015 was our worst OL ever at Miami". 2016 OL was a big struggle again. I don't agree it was that bad, but OL was definitely a weakness. But what's changed?

Again, I'm not saying I'm right...but I'm saying to myself "we signed 2 4 Star OL over a 2 year period, that's a big problem". What am I missing?
 

gcane44

Junior
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
3,233
Can someone explain the OL situation to me? I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm very nervous about our OL while everyone seems to be pretty happy about it.

My thinking is this - Here's the 4/5 star OL we've signed since 2010, and their 247 National Ranking.

17 - Donaldson (71), Herbert (255)
16 - None
15 - Milo (216), St. Louis (293)
14 - McDermott (45), Darling (93)
13 - None
12 - Flowers (159)
11 - None
10 - Henderson (2), Linder (132)

Our best OL have come from the 4/5 Star group. Some 3 stars played really well (Feliciano, Isadora), but for the most part they take a while to develop and are just contributors (Odagwu, Gall, etc.)

We're expecting Donaldson & Herbert to step right in, but the same was expected of St. Louis, McDermott, and Darling - and they all needed time to develop. What's different about Donaldson & Herbert? Flowers is the only guy I remember being good right away (but I could be remembering wrong). I know people are high on Brown & Gaynor - but Brown was ranked 471 overall & Gaynor was not ranked nationally and just 170 in FL.

I thought we needed 3 or 4 4/5 star OL in this class and we got 2. To me - 2017 doesn't look much different than any other year. We got 2 4 Star OL, and a couple 3 Star OL with potential we're excited about.

It was popular to say "2015 was our worst OL ever at Miami". 2016 OL was a big struggle again. I don't agree it was that bad, but OL was definitely a weakness. But what's changed?

Again, I'm not saying I'm right...but I'm saying to myself "we signed 2 4 Star OL over a 2 year period, that's a big problem". What am I missing?

Linder was good right away. Feliciano was good for us after a RS year.

Hillery ended up ranked a 4 star.

If you can't see that Gaynor is very good, then I don't know what to tell you.
 

jnf2257

Junior
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
1,852
You just have to trust this new staff and their evaluations. It's very difficult for any program other than schools like Bama, FSU, Michigan etc to reel in a whole class of 4/5 star OL recruits. Guys like Gaynor/Hillery/Dykstray will need to develop a little, but the staff believes in them and were very high on them.

As far as Donaldson/Herbert starting right away, I'm with you. I'll need to see it to believe it because it's very tough for any freshmen OL to come in and be a stud from day one of college ball. A little more optimistic with Donaldson since he's an EE.

But also realize the OL played significantly better at the end of the year. When we fixed some of our rotation issues and found spots for guys like Gauthier where they're most comfortable. Another year in the weight room and under Searles should bring improved results.
 

gcane44

Junior
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
3,233
I have zero expectations for Herbert to start right away. I fully expect Donaldson to either start or be OL#6 this season
 

apfenny3

Freshman
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
1,449
O-line is probably my worst position to really judge, but keep an eye out for St. Louis next season. Very big body and seemed to improve each week this season. Spring is going to be a battle for the tackle spots
 

teddywestside

Band
Banned
Joined
Aug 30, 2015
Messages
1,025
Can someone explain the OL situation to me? I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm very nervous about our OL while everyone seems to be pretty happy about it.

My thinking is this - Here's the 4/5 star OL we've signed since 2010, and their 247 National Ranking.

17 - Donaldson (71), Herbert (255)
16 - None
15 - Milo (216), St. Louis (293)
14 - McDermott (45), Darling (93)
13 - None
12 - Flowers (159)
11 - None
10 - Henderson (2), Linder (132)

Our best OL have come from the 4/5 Star group. Some 3 stars played really well (Feliciano, Isadora), but for the most part they take a while to develop and are just contributors (Odagwu, Gall, etc.)

We're expecting Donaldson & Herbert to step right in, but the same was expected of St. Louis, McDermott, and Darling - and they all needed time to develop. What's different about Donaldson & Herbert? Flowers is the only guy I remember being good right away (but I could be remembering wrong). I know people are high on Brown & Gaynor - but Brown was ranked 471 overall & Gaynor was not ranked nationally and just 170 in FL.

I thought we needed 3 or 4 4/5 star OL in this class and we got 2. To me - 2017 doesn't look much different than any other year. We got 2 4 Star OL, and a couple 3 Star OL with potential we're excited about.

It was popular to say "2015 was our worst OL ever at Miami". 2016 OL was a big struggle again. I don't agree it was that bad, but OL was definitely a weakness. But what's changed?

Again, I'm not saying I'm right...but I'm saying to myself "we signed 2 4 Star OL over a 2 year period, that's a big problem". What am I missing?

We got 3 4star lineman.

Star rankings are practically worthless when it comes to OL at least at Miami.
 

da truth

1st team All-American
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
2,629
Can someone explain the OL situation to me? I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm very nervous about our OL while everyone seems to be pretty happy about it.

My thinking is this - Here's the 4/5 star OL we've signed since 2010, and their 247 National Ranking.

17 - Donaldson (71), Herbert (255)
16 - None
15 - Milo (216), St. Louis (293)
14 - McDermott (45), Darling (93)
13 - None
12 - Flowers (159)
11 - None
10 - Henderson (2), Linder (132)

Our best OL have come from the 4/5 Star group. Some 3 stars played really well (Feliciano, Isadora), but for the most part they take a while to develop and are just contributors (Odagwu, Gall, etc.)

We're expecting Donaldson & Herbert to step right in, but the same was expected of St. Louis, McDermott, and Darling - and they all needed time to develop. What's different about Donaldson & Herbert? Flowers is the only guy I remember being good right away (but I could be remembering wrong). I know people are high on Brown & Gaynor - but Brown was ranked 471 overall & Gaynor was not ranked nationally and just 170 in FL.

I thought we needed 3 or 4 4/5 star OL in this class and we got 2. To me - 2017 doesn't look much different than any other year. We got 2 4 Star OL, and a couple 3 Star OL with potential we're excited about.

It was popular to say "2015 was our worst OL ever at Miami". 2016 OL was a big struggle again. I don't agree it was that bad, but OL was definitely a weakness. But what's changed?

Again, I'm not saying I'm right...but I'm saying to myself "we signed 2 4 Star OL over a 2 year period, that's a big problem". What am I missing?

Your using a recruiting service ranking for ol. First mistake.

Most college football analysts say we haven't had a ol class this talented since early 90s.
 

OrdunaDrive

Freshman
Joined
Jun 27, 2016
Messages
561
You're right to be concerned we didn't land any big prospects on the line last year. That sucks. This year's class is stout, though. 3 4* players, and a fourth, in Gaynor, that appears to have been a diamond in the rough that people expect big things from eventually. Agree with previous post that Donaldson will contribute immediately. Maybe Gaynor can too. Kid looks mean.
 

caneinpsl

Senior
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
2,869
O-line is probably my worst position to really judge, but keep an eye out for St. Louis next season. Very big body and seemed to improve each week this season. Spring is going to be a battle for the tackle spots

I agree with this. I have been encouraged by the improvement St. Louis has shown in his last dozen games. And Sunny was decent before he went down. Having those two competing is a good thing. The fact that we have a lot of experience back should help them gel as a unit.
 
Joined
Mar 15, 2013
Messages
7,110
Maybe I can bring some reason to bshaw28 and the realization we have brought in "significantly" better OL talent in this class than during the previous 3 classes under goldirito regime.

1. All these kids were highly sought after by many major programs for one.

2. Since your premise is star rating, you tell us why you believe a kid that is 4 Star is so much better than a kid who is 3.8 Stars (yes they use composite scores to achieve star ratings, so there is nothing discernible separating any two kids.) It's all subjective.

3. The kids we signed on NSD 2017 were not last minute warm bodies to fill a need at OL. They all are very capable of starting now or the following season.

4. Maybe this will help you understand that evaluations, projections and ratings is "far" from an exact science.

5. Trailerhassee has had premier OL classes the last 4 years and we saw them get their shet pushed in at times.

Ex.1:
Clemson in 2014 signed two 3 star OL only (Falcenelli & Hearn).

In 2015 two 4 stars (Hyatt & Fruhmorgen(proved not to be) and two 3 stars (Green & Ginella).

2016 they signed two 4 stars (Pollard & Simpson) and two 3 stars (Reeves & Anchum) and One 2 star (Stewart)



In 2016 these same OLinemen held the vaunted DLines of OSU and bamer in check enough to win the ACC, CF Playoff game and the National Championship. I hope this goes to show you and you accept that solid evaluations, training and coaching is more a predictor than a star rating. If you watch pro football you'll see many players that didn't excite the fan base on NSD, but are excelling at the highest level. Get off that star BS as your only determining factor of a kids worth to a class and team.
 

20EReedboii

Redshirt Freshman
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
453
O-line is probably my worst position to really judge, but keep an eye out for St. Louis next season. Very big body and seemed to improve each week this season. Spring is going to be a battle for the tackle spots

Who do you think would be the favorites to win the Tackle spots? I thought Tyree made big strides this year but guys on here don't think he can be a LT.
 

moshated305

Senior
Joined
Jun 13, 2012
Messages
6,870
Can't judge anything off what the previous regime did. We had an OL coach who was living off a 15 year old legacy. Probably the worst hire we've had here in a long time when Golden dusted off Kehoe for one more ride.
 

apfenny3

Freshman
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
1,449
O-line is probably my worst position to really judge, but keep an eye out for St. Louis next season. Very big body and seemed to improve each week this season. Spring is going to be a battle for the tackle spots

Who do you think would be the favorites to win the Tackle spots? I thought Tyree made big strides this year but guys on here don't think he can be a LT.

I'm not a great judge of O-line play and honestly didn't pay that much attention to them during practice. What I do know is St. Louis made huge strides over the year. Brown is athletic and can be very good when he's focused and wants to be. Donaldson looks like he's going to be an animal as well. KC and Trevor have the most experience but I'm not sure what position fits each one best.
 

caneinpsl

Senior
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
2,869
Anyone out there have any thoughts about Tre Johnson? He seems to be the forgotten man. Any idea how he looked in practice this past fall?
 

bshaw28

Junior
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
2,665
Maybe I can bring some reason to bshaw28 and the realization we have brought in "significantly" better OL talent in this class than during the previous 3 classes under goldirito regime.

1. All these kids were highly sought after by many major programs for one.

2. Since your premise is star rating, you tell us why you believe a kid that is 4 Star is so much better than a kid who is 3.8 Stars (yes they use composite scores to achieve star ratings, so there is nothing discernible separating any two kids.) It's all subjective.

3. The kids we signed on NSD 2017 were not last minute warm bodies to fill a need at OL. They all are very capable of starting now or the following season.

4. Maybe this will help you understand that evaluations, projections and ratings is "far" from an exact science.

5. Trailerhassee has had premier OL classes the last 4 years and we saw them get their shet pushed in at times.

Ex.1:
Clemson in 2014 signed two 3 star OL only (Falcenelli & Hearn).

In 2015 two 4 stars (Hyatt & Fruhmorgen(proved not to be) and two 3 stars (Green & Ginella).

2016 they signed two 4 stars (Pollard & Simpson) and two 3 stars (Reeves & Anchum) and One 2 star (Stewart)



In 2016 these same OLinemen held the vaunted DLines of OSU and bamer in check enough to win the ACC, CF Playoff game and the National Championship. I hope this goes to show you and you accept that solid evaluations, training and coaching is more a predictor than a star rating. If you watch pro football you'll see many players that didn't excite the fan base on NSD, but are excelling at the highest level. Get off that star BS as your only determining factor of a kids worth to a class and team.

I know stars aren't the end all be all. But stars & rankings are an educated guess by people who can evaluate talent much better than me. And the rankings are right a good % of the time.

Example - Here's the OL we've had drafted over the last 12 years:

4/5 Star - Winston, Butler, Franklin, Washington, Henderson, Linder, Flowers
3 Star - Fox, Feliciano

OL, just like any position, has better players coming from the 4/5 star pool than the 3/2 Stars. Stars matter to everyone on this board, whether they want to admit it it or not.

If it's a question of talent evaluation and development, then why has Miami had more OL drafted, and drafted higher, than Georgia did when Richt was there? Richt does not have a good track record at OL.

All I'm saying is if 4/5 Stars workout 50% of the time, and 3/2 Stars work out 30% of the time - then it would seem to me we need more 4/5 Stars OL recruits.
 

The Franchise

The Best EVER
Joined
Sep 4, 2012
Messages
43,492
I don't care about star ratings on the OL. And I don't expect Herbert to start right away either. We should be rocking and rolling at OL this year. Lots of experience, some dogs and plenty of talent.

Gaynor is gonna take someone's lunch quickly. Count on that.
 
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