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Tears Nole Tears (“Offcial”)
- Thread starter TruCane
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The lines is where it looked worst. I couldn’t believe how little pressure they generated that whole game. I don’t even understand how lol
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Because the same people have been saying give Mario a bunch of time to get his guys in and so I think it’s only fair. DeBoer still may have certain players that work better for the system he runs than what’s been left to him which was a lot talent-wise.JJ walked into a stacked Howard Schnellenberger team. After surviving The Assistant Coach Mutiny of 1984, he had a 10-1 regular season in 1985 and an 11-0 regular season in 1986.
Dennis Erickson walked into a stacked JJ team. He proceeded to win the national championship in his first year.
Larry Coker walked into a stacked Butch team. He proceeded to win the national championship in his first year.
I understand the tendency to say "let Kalen DeBoer get his own guys in".
For instance, Arch Manning may have been the highest ranked quarterback his year, even though we all think he was overrated, but a 3-star running/tempo qb who is a lot lower ranked, may do better at Bama because he’s a better fit and can better do what DeBoer wants to run. Look at a Mario taking Manny’s 7-5 team to 5-7. Those guys were better than 5-7 but they don’t do what Mario needed.
Did DeBoer inherit more than Mario - sure. He still should get the time people here give Mario but we all can agree to disagree.
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Honestly, not following your logic. Situations are so different, I can’t make sense of it. If people are saying Mario should get unlimited time or more time than he should be getting, I’m just not diving into the threads that deeply to see that.
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It’s pretty obvious that Deboer is in over his head but I can’t realistically say that the Alabama team I watched against FSU is anywhere near as talented as their recruiting rankings suggest.
We’ve seen elite talent carry corches to championships. ****, we saw it happen here. Maybe Deboer is a bum and everything he did before now was a fluke but is every single coach on their staff also so horrible that they make 5 star players look like an FCS team?
Bama didn’t lose because of bad play calling. They lost because their offensive line couldn’t block anyone and their quarterback immediately abandoned the pocket at the first sign of pressure and then proceeded to throw the ball nowhere near an intended receiver.
We’ve seen elite talent carry corches to championships. ****, we saw it happen here. Maybe Deboer is a bum and everything he did before now was a fluke but is every single coach on their staff also so horrible that they make 5 star players look like an FCS team?
Bama didn’t lose because of bad play calling. They lost because their offensive line couldn’t block anyone and their quarterback immediately abandoned the pocket at the first sign of pressure and then proceeded to throw the ball nowhere near an intended receiver.
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Nope. Not buying it.
Mario had to get his guys in because we were a terrible team with a terrible culture and terrible habits. We had Manny players LIVING IN BROWARD. And, we simply did not have big linemen.
JJ inherited a defending national champion. Dennis inherited a team that went 2-1-2 in the preceding 3 years AND he changed the offense to a spread 1-back. Coker inherited a team that finished #2. AND DEBOER INHERITED A TEAM THAT WENT 1-2-5-5 IN THE PRECEDING FOUR YEARS.
The faulty part of your logic is that you are arguing the hire of DeBoer should give him just as much time to build/rebuild as Mario. Even though the two situations are completely different. If DeBoer wants to tear down the #5 team in the country and rebuild it in his image, he does so at his own peril. Not to mention the fact that he "only" needed one year to succeed at Washington. Maybe the expectations were different. Maybe the bar was lower. But if the REASON you are being hired is the miracle you just accomplished over the preceding 2 years AND you inherit the #5 team in the country, maybe you either make the most of the talent you ALREADY have, or you pull off the same miracle you just did at Washington.
That is all. You can't have it both ways. Mario took one of the worst teams in the country (FIU) and spent 4 years rebuilding. DeBoer doesn't seem to need 4 years with the Portal, Alabama's talent, and his past track record. If he asked for that, and said that the Alabama talent was overrated, that would be one thing. But he never said that.
So I'm really not sure why anyone has to give him "equal Mario time" to rebuild the #5 team in the country. When he made the national title game in his second year at a P5 school that was 4-8 when he was hired at Washington. And which, FOR THAT REASON, he was hired at Alabama.
Perhaps it is unrealistic to expect the national championship game in Year 2. But DeBoer accepted the job offer and cashes the paychecks.
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I just don’t think DeBoer is a good fit cause coaching at Bama and coaching in Washington State is a whooooooole lot of difference….
Bama not going to buy him out at 65 million so he’s safe for this year and MAYBE next but I’m not sure that with his temperament he will ever be able to create anything close to what Bama fans are going to expect from him.
Bama not going to buy him out at 65 million so he’s safe for this year and MAYBE next but I’m not sure that with his temperament he will ever be able to create anything close to what Bama fans are going to expect from him.
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Mario took a 7-5 team and went 5-7 and that’s cool because he needs to get his guys in but DeBoer, who runs a different system than saban had doesn’t get the same opportunity to get his guys in. Got it!
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It’s not you. There’s people that will make every excuse in the world to cap for Mario to have time to cook and get his guys in but won’t give that same courtesy to others, not just DeBoer.
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I thought he’d kill it at Bama and thus far his teams have underwhelmed. If it stays like this, it will be a whiff for me in terms of what I thought he’d do there. He’s still a better game coach than Mario who thought ND was out of timeouts.
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Boy what a time to be alive when a program that’s recruited at a top 3 level for over a decade and has one of the highest if not top 2 blue chip ratios is still needing to “get his guys”
armandose23
El que come mal y come bien, come dos veces.
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The knock on Mario is that he’s not a good game day coach which leads to his teams losing against teams they shouldn’t lose to every so often. Deboer’s strength is game day coaching and he’s the HC of a team that has recruited better than nearly 100% of its opponents. Not to mention, his predecessor still has his office there and basically recruits for them in a consultant capacity. I don’t think Deboer gets a pass on losing to FSU. He got outcoached, his team got manhandled. Those aren’t scheme, those are non-negotiables in the game of football no matter if you run power spread or wing T.
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thisi s why i lol at allllllll the fsu canes on here that cheer on an hope n wish fsu is good......this is the thoughts of just about all their fan base.
All of my nole friends, teammates, an even family think this way they want us to be sorry n lose every game an hate watch us...
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This might be hard to hear but in today’s portal world of CFB truly dominate teams aren’t going to be a thing… look who played in the natty game last year as an example OSU who lost to a 5 loss Michigan team… ND lost to Northern Illinois.
Now if you wanna move the goal post and instead of Mario dropping one game it becomes two now I’m with you that can be a worry. But beat the teams you should and your gonna make your way to the playoffs and give yourself a punchers chance
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He's not a southern school fit it seems - as of now. College football is so much about cultural fit. Basically everything we've heard is Bama was going from a compelte hardass/******* (football wise) in Saban to a more laid back and maybe analytical guy in Deboer. Just doesn't seem to fit what Bama wants in that athletic department. I don't think this is about Football and knowing how to coach a football team. It's knowing how to coach a football team at the University of Alabama that seems to be the problem... I'd bet he'd do very well at Ohio St. maybe Michigan and PSU too (but like not Iowa, MichSt, Wisconsin even in the B1G, etc). Hed probably be a great fit at like UVA, UNC, and Duke too... Maybe Gtech/VTech would be pushing it. Like Idk if he'd even be a great fit at USC or Here... We have a very particular culture you got to manage in LA/Miami... Honestly if you flipped Deboer and Lanning for Oregon and Bama, You'd probably have a pretty good result. But Don't think Lanning is gunna want to leave Oregon as long as Phil Knight is alive.
I think he's a good coach. But if you actually do look a bit deeper at his coaching record and try to be (probably overly) critical:
- He took over at Fresno St for Jeff Tedford who has been a pretty dang good coach at multiple points. Tedford built cal up to the Rodgers/Desean Jackson/Marshawn highs. The 5 years predating Tedford at Cal they literally averaged 3.2 wins per year which is dog****. Then in Tedfords first 8 years he averaged 8.38 wins/yr including two 10 win seasons - legit GREAT result for Cal. So that was a major turnaround he led at Cal, and it produced the Rodgers/DJax/marshawn era. Then he proceeded to have 3 **** seasons and was then fired at Cal for Dykes. Then he took a sabatical a few years before taking the Fresno St job. The 3 years before Tedford took over there they went 6 wins, then 3 wins, then 1 win then he was hired. So He took them from 1 win and averaging 3.33 wins/yr to 10 wins in his first season then followed that up with 12 wins. Then they **** the bed and won 4 games (so still averaging 8.67wins/yr - major improvement)... But he left and they hired Deboer during covid year then 2021 Deboer won 9 games. Deboer left for UW and then Tedford took back over at Fresno and won 10 games then 8 games. So When you think about it at Fresno Tedford won 10, 12, then Deboer won 9, then Tedford won 10 then 8... So you could question who BUILT Fresno st up and who actually had more success with Fresno St? Deboer or Tedford.... Seems like Tedford has a history of building programs up over time, before he crashes. But if you take over quickly like Deboer did, it worked well in his favor, which leads to...
- Washington had like 5 year of Sark winning avg of 7 games/yr. But Sark took over after they went 5 wins then 4 wins then 0 wins then he was hired. Sark got them to 5 then a few years at 7, then finished with 9 wins before leaving. So relatively Sark did a very good job building at Washington and left them far better than when he got there (avged 2.4 wins/yr the previous 5 years! DOG****!)... Then they went to Chris Peterson who took them back to like a top 15 type program with 9.2 wins/yr and three seasons above 10 wins. Peterson retires and then its covid year, but then they have 1 bad season only winning 4 games with a **** QB. Then Deboer takes over and wins 11 games then 14 - with Michael Penix and some elite WRs both years. So its like Sure he took over a 4 and 3 win team, but one of those years was covid that they were 3-1. And Peterson just had Washington playing at a very high level for 6 straight seasons. Is it reasonable to actually believe that UW really was a complete rebuild at that point? The portal wasn't nearly what it is today... Deboer elevated them to new height with an elite QB. But like even three of Petersons final 4 seasons he had UW finish top 12 before their bowl game? Deboer had finished 12th his first year then 2nd in 2023...
The point in all that really is just that Deboer showed a history of taking over a program already mostly built and then getting them back on track from a single season downturn and then elevating it. But the evidence of him elevating it (wouldn't say he significantly elevated Fresno really) was with an elite Qb. But he has no history of building a program from the Actual very bottom up where you have to do a full tear down (Like mario had to here). He has no history of any multi-year rebuild at all tbh. And most importantly he doesn't have an elite QB at Alabama right now. The ENTIRE POINT of the Deboer hire was always take All the studs Saban brought in, and let Deboer win and maintain what Saban built. IT was NEVER to have Deboer rebuild Alabama in his image. Thats not what they wanted when they hired him.
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I don't fear Castellanos as a passer at all. Play action could be a threat for some busts or over committing to the run.
Norvell and Malzahn though have a pretty good Run scheme usually. They do a lot of misdirection. I don't fear them just bullying us like at all.
But Castellanos can definitely run and create off schedule with his legs. Just will be critical to maintain our pass rush lanes.
And most importantly we need a good QB spy against him. Man what I'd love to have like a Bobby Washington healthy and just give him one single focus for the game - **** everything else, just kill Castellanos lol.
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Then they hired the wrong guy for Bama as you said because that’s not DeBoer. They’d have been better off with Dabo or maybe someone who was on Saban’s last staff or on his staff at some point and knew the routine. DeBoer would be better off at USC.
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**** Curt Cignettii, This is the one they probably should have hired looking back on it. Cignetti was WR coach and Recruiting coordinator at Bama 07-10 (so when saban first got there). But the biggest problem with him is that he was HC at two small schools after his bama tenure - IUP/Elon, where he had a LOT of success, including taking these teams to like their first conference champ wins and the lower level playoffs, and he won coach of year... But that was waaaay too small stakes for 8 years tbh. Then he went to JMU where he had excellent results, but again, fcs program. Of course when they moved up to FBS for 2 seasons he had excellent success still. But like was Bama ever going to hire the guy from JMU? As it turns out I think looking back he was probably the best choice. And the money wouldn't have been an issue at all. Just you'd have to overlook no major program success... Which would be a tough call to make.
Other coaches that Could have made some sense: Brent Key, Bill O'Brien who both coached at Alabama, and probably would be more of a culture fit. But Key is at his alma mater. The Guy that imo would actually funnily make a lot of sense is Greg Schiano tbh. He seems exactly the same type of culture guy as a Saban to me. Obviously some bama fans are going to want Lane Kiffin and that probably has the highest risk:reward after Deboer possibly tbh. But I'd say given his time at Bama and Ole Miss is a better culture fit than Deboer still. Bret Bielman would probably fit well at Alabama tbh.
Guys like Lebby, Fran Brown, Jon Sumrall aren't/werent experienced enough. Dillingham too, but I doubt he'd be a culture fit either.
Guys like Matt Campbell, Lance Leipold, Chris Klieman are all 3 VERY good coaches, but idk if they'd be a culture fit. They seem midwestern guys that like the ideal fit for them is taking a Nebraska team back to dominance...
Guys like Kirby, Dabo, Sark, Kelly, Franklin, etc weren't really a realistic option at all imo.
To me with Hindsight the rankings (that are semi-realistic options) would have been:
1. Lanning
2. Dabo
3. Cignetti
4. Deboer
5. One of Bielman, Key, Schiano
Ultimately I think Deboer still has a higher ceiling/odds of winning a championship at Bama than anyone I listed at 5....But the guys I listed at 5 IMO would probably have Bama treading water at 10 wins I think, and they'd just FIT better.
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Bret Bielema??? He’s not Bama level but Cignetti’s a good coach. Lanning would be a great choice at any top job.