Tears Nole Tears (“Offcial”)

[GojiraCane]

Of course F$U is a top "spender". Because they included all the payouts and buyouts related to Taggart and Prison Mike Norvell.

F$U literally threw $30-40 million (total) into the fire just to hire, then fire, Taggart.

The question no one dares ask...would FSU have been better off if they had not succumbed to fan/booster pressure and just retained Taggart? Not that FSU would have still spent all of the additional money on resources - but presumably some of it would have.

 

[gcane44]

All the money FSU spends is going to buyouts and owed money to prior coaches

 

[kryptonite]

E r

Evertime I see an adult wearing a Mickey shirt I can’t help but think they are a Pedo

 

[TheOriginalCane]

The question no one dares ask...would FSU have been better off if they had not succumbed to fan/booster pressure and just retained Taggart? Not that FSU would have still spent all of the additional money on resources - but presumably some of it would have.

Well, they would have been MUUUUUUCH better off if they had given in to Jimbo, and what Jimbo wanted.

Short of that, I don't know exactly what to say about Taggart.

So let's analyze, realizing that it's easy to think about things after the fact.

First, for Taggart on his own...was he doing the right things? Was he leading the program where it needed to go? Wins and losses were not great, but some difficulty should be anticipated when you change coaches.

Second, even if F$U is not thrilled with Taggart, what is the risk-reward of firing him at the time they did? If he was doing the WRONG things, then I understand a rapid termination. But if it's "he might improve, he might not", then there is an added cost to a rapid termination, as some players would then be getting accustomed to their THIRD head coach and might choose to transfer out.

Third, separate from the roster-churn and other associated risks with burning through head coaches, there is also the financial aspect of doing so. Hiring Taggart cost money (buying him out of his Oregon contract). Firing Taggart cost money (paying him out of his F$U contract). Hiring Norvell cost money (buying him out of his Memphis contract). Just from a financial standpoint, you try to go further than "less than 2 years" with a coach, just on the payout side, in addition to deferring the buyout side for the newest-hired head coach.

And, in retrospect, how bad could it possibly have been to have kept Taggart for 2020? Maybe we couldn't predict COVID, but it certainly doesn't seem like Prison Mike Norvell has transformed F$U over the past two years. Do we really think that Taggart would have gone 3-6 in 2020? And do we really think that Prison Mike Norvell would have been "off the market" at the end of 2020 if Taggart HAD gone 3-6?

I don't know that Willie would have had F$U in the post-season in 2020 or 2021, but I do know that Prison Mike did NOT. And if F$U had retained Willie, and fired him after 2020 or 2021, I think they still could have gotten Prison Mike...or possibly even someone better than Prison Mike...

 

[GojiraCane]

Well, they would have been MUUUUUUCH better off if they had given in to Jimbo, and what Jimbo wanted.

Short of that, I don't know exactly what to say about Taggart.

So let's analyze, realizing that it's easy to think about things after the fact.

First, for Taggart on his own...was he doing the right things? Was he leading the program where it needed to go? Wins and losses were not great, but some difficulty should be anticipated when you change coaches.

Second, even if F$U is not thrilled with Taggart, what is the risk-reward of firing him at the time they did? If he was doing the WRONG things, then I understand a rapid termination. But if it's "he might improve, he might not", then there is an added cost to a rapid termination, as some players would then be getting accustomed to their THIRD head coach and might choose to transfer out.

Third, separate from the roster-churn and other associated risks with burning through head coaches, there is also the financial aspect of doing so. Hiring Taggart cost money (buying him out of his Oregon contract). Firing Taggart cost money (paying him out of his F$U contract). Hiring Norvell cost money (buying him out of his Memphis contract). Just from a financial standpoint, you try to go further than "less than 2 years" with a coach, just on the payout side, in addition to deferring the buyout side for the newest-hired head coach.

And, in retrospect, how bad could it possibly have been to have kept Taggart for 2020? Maybe we couldn't predict COVID, but it certainly doesn't seem like Prison Mike Norvell has transformed F$U over the past two years. Do we really think that Taggart would have gone 3-6 in 2020? And do we really think that Prison Mike Norvell would have been "off the market" at the end of 2020 if Taggart HAD gone 3-6?

I don't know that Willie would have had F$U in the post-season in 2020 or 2021, but I do know that Prison Mike did NOT. And if F$U had retained Willie, and fired him after 2020 or 2021, I think they still could have gotten Prison Mike...or possibly even someone better than Prison Mike...

Great response. It sounds to me like they panicked and ended up worse off, at least for the short term.

 

[TOcane]

Who's more delusional FSU or these clowns

Hate to say it because of the thread but it’s UCF. Can’t imagine a bigger delusion.

 

[The Sphinx]

In to make my quarterly contribution to the Nole Tears thread.

Carry on, fine soldiers! Carry on!

 

[DTP]

Well, they would have been MUUUUUUCH better off if they had given in to Jimbo, and what Jimbo wanted.

Short of that, I don't know exactly what to say about Taggart.

So let's analyze, realizing that it's easy to think about things after the fact.

First, for Taggart on his own...was he doing the right things? Was he leading the program where it needed to go? Wins and losses were not great, but some difficulty should be anticipated when you change coaches.

Second, even if F$U is not thrilled with Taggart, what is the risk-reward of firing him at the time they did? If he was doing the WRONG things, then I understand a rapid termination. But if it's "he might improve, he might not", then there is an added cost to a rapid termination, as some players would then be getting accustomed to their THIRD head coach and might choose to transfer out.

Third, separate from the roster-churn and other associated risks with burning through head coaches, there is also the financial aspect of doing so. Hiring Taggart cost money (buying him out of his Oregon contract). Firing Taggart cost money (paying him out of his F$U contract). Hiring Norvell cost money (buying him out of his Memphis contract). Just from a financial standpoint, you try to go further than "less than 2 years" with a coach, just on the payout side, in addition to deferring the buyout side for the newest-hired head coach.

And, in retrospect, how bad could it possibly have been to have kept Taggart for 2020? Maybe we couldn't predict COVID, but it certainly doesn't seem like Prison Mike Norvell has transformed F$U over the past two years. Do we really think that Taggart would have gone 3-6 in 2020? And do we really think that Prison Mike Norvell would have been "off the market" at the end of 2020 if Taggart HAD gone 3-6?

I don't know that Willie would have had F$U in the post-season in 2020 or 2021, but I do know that Prison Mike did NOT. And if F$U had retained Willie, and fired him after 2020 or 2021, I think they still could have gotten Prison Mike...or possibly even someone better than Prison Mike...

You make a good point. How much worse could FSU have been had they just kept Taggart through the end of the 2020 season instead of firing him halfway through 2019? I mean they likely would have sucked but they went 3-6 in 2020 anyway so maybe they go 2-7 if Willie is retained? Was that extra win or two worth being broke from buying out his contract and then rushing into buying out Norvelllll's Memphis contract? Caving to fan pressure has cost them literally millions of dollars.

 

[PIPO]

 

[423Hurricane]

He was left in worse shape than willie. Willie atleast had Dumbo's kids. He was starting to skip as well but he did have some decent talent in there. Willie was a real moron, but norvell just seems lost to me. He reminds me ALLOT of Coker. He's out of his element & trying to take it till he makes it

Norvell being like Coker is the perfect analogy. Now all Norvell needs to do is clap incessantly for no apparent reason.

 

[Canes2082]

So they’re the only ones on that list who did not make a bowl game… let that sink in

 

[Brooklyndee]

The question no one dares ask...would FSU have been better off if they had not succumbed to fan/booster pressure and just retained Taggart? Not that FSU would have still spent all of the additional money on resources - but presumably some of it would have.

I don't necessarily think they would've been worse off but I'm not too sure they would've been much better off either. Since when should a university simply be content with a **** product. Their problem is only similar to what ours was in that they trust the wrong individuals with the hiring process. Possibly much like us, they will have to take that trust out of their hands.

 

[Canes2082]

He was left in worse shape than willie. Willie atleast had Dumbo's kids. He was starting to skip as well but he did have some decent talent in there. Willie was a real moron, but norvell just seems lost to me. He reminds me ALLOT of Coker. He's out of his element & trying to take it till he makes it

He may have been at that point but Jimbos guys were way overrated the last couple years. Lots of busts

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I don't necessarily think they would've been worse off but I'm not too sure they would've been much better off either. Since when should a university simply be content with a **** product. Their problem is only similar to what ours was in that they trust the wrong individuals with the hiring process. Possibly much like us, they will have to take that trust out of their hands.

I don't know, all this stuff is so confusing.

Willie's first recruiting class was #10 in Rivals and #11 on 247. His second recruiting class was #17 in Rivals and #18 on 247.

I'm not saying Willie earned the coach-for-life job, but he did recruit some talent. Now, maybe he didn't develop it as well as he could have, but he also got less than 2 years to do so. It's very possible that a lot of the F$U attrition was due to the constant coaching turnover.

I realize we can go line-by-line and look at each and every guy that Taggart signed, but I think that F$U fans have built up this myth that Taggart was the worst thing that ever happened to their program, and I don't think that is true. I do think that F$U had a ton of avoidable attrition as they went from Jimbo to Willie to Prison Mike.

 

[Brooklyndee]

He may have been at that point but Jimbos guys were way overrated the last couple years. Lots of busts

Maybe you didn't see where I said EXACTLY that...

 

[simplycanes]

Did TVD have a "choice" to declare for the NFL draft or come back? Not to mention that Kenny Pickett and Sam Howell left. So who are all these other amazing ACC quarterbacks who would have been drafted high, but "chose to come back"?

As for this bad luck of scheduling tough OOC teams, last time I checked, the Gaytors were an annual opponent. In 2020, F$U played exactly ONE out-of-conference game, a win over Jacksonville State. Of course, in 2021, F$U then LOST to Jacksonville State. They beat mighty UMass. Was it "bad luck" that they lost to Notre Dame at home, which is a semi-ACC game (the ND games get scheduled due to ND's semi-membership in the ACC).

So where is the "bad luck"? Oh, maybe it's future games. Again, setting aside the automatic rivalry game with Florida, for 2022 F$U is scheduled to play DUQUESNE, LOUISIANA, and, alright, they play LSU in a Kickoff Game. You know, the same LSU that just went 6-7 and fired their coach. Plus the Gaytors just fired their coach. So, you know, not exactly the toughest OOC schedule ever.

2023? North Alabama, Southern Miss, LSU (in another Kickoff game), and the Gaytors. 2024? Charleston Southern, Memphis, Notre Dame, and the Gaytors. So we are supposed to bemoan the "bad luck" of the evil F$U administration scheduling back-to-back Kickoff games with a bad LSU team, plus the ACC rotation of Notre Dame games? Or should they be angry at the Florida legislature requiring F$U to play the Gaytors every year?

Oh, lord, the baaaaaaad luck that F$U has to endure...

It has been well over a decade since you can talk sense with a Nole fan, especially now. They're only in year 2 of the Al Golden phase.

 

[JD08]

It has been well over a decade since you can talk sense with a Nole fan, especially now. They're only in year 2 of the Al Golden phase.

Next is the prodigal son returns phase. Sanders?

 

[Hurracanes]

He was left in worse shape than willie. Willie atleast had Dumbo's kids. He was starting to skip as well but he did have some decent talent in there. Willie was a real moron, but norvell just seems lost to me. He reminds me ALLOT of Coker. He's out of his element & trying to take it till he makes it

I doubt Norvell makes it to December.

 

[halocanex]

Alex Toral has struck out 4 times tonight.

 

[TrumpyCane]