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Tears Nole Tears (“Offcial”)

ScharfCane said:
And even funnier that they can’t even win one despite 3rd most college World Series appearances among all of colleges…
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Now imagine if this 2017 anomaly never happened...


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DTP said:
Yeah that’s the whole thing. White Mike has had a bunch of 20 something rated recruiting classes. He’s not replacing stars with blue chip players. The former blue chip recruits he does have are guys who bombed at their first school and are trying to salvage their careers at FSU.
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Once is noteworthy.

Twice is a trend.

So if he takes Roydell Williams (averaged 5.0 YPC last year) and makes him Trey Benson (6.4 and 5.8 the last 2 years), and he takes Marvin Jones Jr and makes him Jermaine Johnson, and takes DJU and makes him Jordan Travis, and takes Malik Benson and makes him Keon Coleman, and takes Sione Lolohea and makes him Braden Fiske, etc etc, then I will give the dude his flowers. He’s an elite judge of talent and developer. But because he did it once with a group of kids who were, in many cases, already really good college players, doesn’t mean that’s the norm going forward.

I’ve said in this thread and others probably 500 times that I am very interested in the SUSTAINABILITY of FSU’s model. They had a spike year, and good for them. They’re talking their **** just like we would if we went 13-0 thru an ACC Championship. But is this sustainable? And I’m not talking about 13-0 every year. Nobody does that. But will 2024 be a Top 15 year for them? Will 2025? Thats sustainability. In order to do that, he’s gotta hit on a ton of evals and be an elite coach because they’re not recruiting HS kids at that level right now.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Once is noteworthy.

Twice is a trend.

So if he takes Roydell Williams (averaged 5.0 YPC last year) and makes him Trey Benson (6.4 and 5.8 the last 2 years), and he takes Marvin Jones Jr and makes him Jermaine Johnson, and takes DJU and makes him Jordan Travis, and takes Malik Benson and makes him Keon Coleman, and takes Sione Lolohea and makes him Braden Fiske, etc etc, then I will give the dude his flowers. He’s an elite judge of talent and developer. But because he did it once with a group of kids who were, in many cases, already really good college players, doesn’t mean that’s the norm going forward.

I’ve said in this thread and others probably 500 times that I am very interested in the SUSTAINABILITY of FSU’s model. They had a spike year, and good for them. They’re talking their **** just like we would if we went 13-0 thru an ACC Championship. But is this sustainable? And I’m not talking about 13-0 every year. Nobody does that. But will 2024 be a Top 15 year for them? Will 2025? Thats sustainability. In order to do that, he’s gotta hit on a ton of evals and be an elite coach because they’re not recruiting HS kids at that level right now.
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TrumpyCane wants to point out Jermaine Johnson at UGA

21 games played, 6.5 sacks
7 games his last season, 4 sacks

Marvin Jones

25 games, 2 sacks
 
TrumpyCane said:
TrumpyCane wants to point out Jermaine Johnson at UGA

21 games played, 6.5 sacks
7 games his last season, 4 sacks

Marvin Jones

25 games, 2 sacks
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Good point, but not exactly apples to apples. Johnson spent 2 years at Juco and those 25 games at UGA he was basically 21 and 22 years old.

Those 2 years for Jones he’s 18 and 19.

Still though, you’re right, Johnson had proven he was a good player. Jones has not. But like I said, if he makes Jones into the player Johnson was, I’ll give him his flowers. Their fans seem to think that’s a given. Yeah…I don’t.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Once is noteworthy.

Twice is a trend.

So if he takes Roydell Williams (averaged 5.0 YPC last year) and makes him Trey Benson (6.4 and 5.8 the last 2 years), and he takes Marvin Jones Jr and makes him Jermaine Johnson, and takes DJU and makes him Jordan Travis, and takes Malik Benson and makes him Keon Coleman, and takes Sione Lolohea and makes him Braden Fiske, etc etc, then I will give the dude his flowers. He’s an elite judge of talent and developer. But because he did it once with a group of kids who were, in many cases, already really good college players, doesn’t mean that’s the norm going forward.

I’ve said in this thread and others probably 500 times that I am very interested in the SUSTAINABILITY of FSU’s model. They had a spike year, and good for them. They’re talking their **** just like we would if we went 13-0 thru an ACC Championship. But is this sustainable? And I’m not talking about 13-0 every year. Nobody does that. But will 2024 be a Top 15 year for them? Will 2025? Thats sustainability. In order to do that, he’s gotta hit on a ton of evals and be an elite coach because they’re not recruiting HS kids at that level right now.
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With the appropriate NIL it’s sustainable. Higher end portal players certainly carry less risk than a high school player. It’s like NFL free agency vs the draft. Justin Hebert as a hypothetical free agent vs Justin Fields as a player coming out of college. One, you know what he’s done in the NFL and he’s still on an upperward trajectory. The other is all projection.

In a few years I’ll be curious to see what the “hit” rate is for higher end portal players vs blue chip high school players. I suspect the former will be better, as blue chip high school players seem to have about as high of a success rate as first and second round NFL draft choices.

I’ll use quarterback at Miami for example. Since Ken Dorsey, we’ve had the following blue chip quarterbacks:

Brock Berlin
Robert Marve
Jacory Harris
Brad Kaaya
Kevin Olsen
Jack Allison
N’Kosi Perry
Jarren Williams
Tate Martell
Tyler Van Dyke
Jake Garcia

What was the hit rate? Kaaya was probably the best of them, and Van Dyke and Harris were decent starters. But the rest could not consistently see the field.

I did a brief analysis a few years ago on the Longhorns hit rate at quarterback. They had something like a dozen blue chip quarterbacks recruited after Vince Youn departed and Tom Herman was coaching. Only two of the blue chippers ended up really contributing, and neither at the level of Young (or non blue chip starter Colt McCoy).

Going back to FSU, a portal heavy class year after year can work as long as the funding is there to get the “blue chip” portal players. But the downside is institutional culture erodes, and you’re passing up the opportunity to get and develop generational high school talents that you can develop. They can single handily lift your program (Young, Michael Vick), and if you pass on them it’s unlikely you can get them in the portal.
 
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OrangeBowlMagic said:
Good point, but not exactly apples to apples. Johnson spent 2 years at Juco and those 25 games at UGA he was basically 21 and 22 years old.

Those 2 years for Jones he’s 18 and 19.

Still though, you’re right, Johnson had proven he was a good player. Jones has not. But like I said, if he makes Jones into the player Johnson was, I’ll give him his flowers. Their fans seem to think that’s a given. Yeah…I don’t.
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I would also point out that every player in the Georgia defensive line that Johnson was sitting behind was drafted higher than him. So it’s not exactly like Mike found a diamond in the rough, he was just the fifth best player on that d line and became the best on a crappy team
 
 
They think coaches have to tell kids about the portal? I guess coaches have to tell them about NIL. FSU can argue numbers taken in all they want. Its not about numbers, its the fact they suck at high school recruiting in Mike's 5th year no one can name a FR all american they had. After going heavy portal and doing well u would expect some of his players ready to step up and take over. Nope he had to go portal again.

Certain positions, you have to go portal simply because of numbers for depth, like DL where it may take a while for high school players to step up and RB where players consistently get banged up. Also Miami took numerous young players in the portal like Porter, Allen, Richard etc. Who were still developing players who will spend more years at Miami than their previous school. FSU took grown men looking to get paid and got to the NFL. Those players are not into sharing snaps with high school recruits. Stark difference.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Good point, but not exactly apples to apples. Johnson spent 2 years at Juco and those 25 games at UGA he was basically 21 and 22 years old.

Those 2 years for Jones he’s 18 and 19.

Still though, you’re right, Johnson had proven he was a good player. Jones has not. But like I said, if he makes Jones into the player Johnson was, I’ll give him his flowers. Their fans seem to think that’s a given. Yeah…I don’t.
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You are actually both correct.

If you are looking for "immediate plug-and-play at the same statistical level", then Jermaine Johnson was "better", even though it is not a straight apples-to-apples comparison.

But if you are looking for "can Norvell get a big jump out of a player", then it is relevant that Johnson had 4 years under his belt, while Jones does not.

And this is why we have a valid question on sustainability. Johnson is more about Norvell bringing in a 1-year mercenary while Jones will be more about "can Norvell develop a guy who was not a P5 starter elsewhere".

This will be fun to watch, particularly if F$U struggles.
 
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RVACane said:
Lol whereas gator fans are smug and arrogant, Nole fans are just ******* dbags.
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I have to admit, it is pretty funny to see them continue to spout that "13-0" nonsense.

And I always love the F$U idiots who think they can quote a raw stat, with no context, and then throw their arms up in the air as if they are victorious.

Regardless of raw numbers of Portal signees, Miami has been flipping out Manny recruits with Portal players, while F$U is recruiting over their HS recruits. I would challenge any F$U fan to cite ANY of Mario's high school recruits who have been recruited over by Portal kids, and are forced to leave school for another P5 because they couldn't break through.

Meanwhile, that's why a ton of F$U HS recruits have left. That, and poor NIL deals. And being PUBLICLY NIL-shamed by leaks of their NIL requests because they had THE NERVE to want decent money after being A PART OF a mythical (conquered) 13-1 team.

F$U fans can keep spreading their narrative, I don't care. They've only had a good team for exactly 1.5 years of the Norvell tenure. Let's see what happens in 2024.
 
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