Next DC needs to run a 3-4 hybrid

[plantcity3]

Great discussions in this thread.

I believe we have multiple packages on defense. Its just everything else is so fundamentally flawed. Run fits, tackling, zone drops, giving up leverage, back end being in sync with the font end, and I can keep going.....

 

[da truth]

After years of Diaz and his “scheme” I’ve come to the conclusion that the 4-2-5 is trash. The 3-4 hybrid is the best option for balance and effectiveness in both run and pass defense. Recruiting quality linebackers and hybrid DEs would improve as well.

Thoughts?

Having 4 down lineman isn’t the problem. Having your dline play with zero gap integrity and shooting gaps with a terrible zone coverage Is the issue.

3-4 requires a stud dt. Not a big fan of 3-4 in college. 4-3 or 4-2-5

 

[da truth]

4-2-5 is a nickel defense. Most teams play 3 or nore WR predominantly. I want us to recruit taller players in the front 7. That's the main change i want particularly at LB. More Chase Smiths

You want a taller front 7? No, we need more speed in lb room

 

[PSU Cane]

a 3-4 is not what people traditionally think it is. Jaelan Phillips is an outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme for the Dolphins. Basically a stand up end who can drop into the flats.

And that defense is wasting Phillips right now.

Flo may have stopped Lamar with zero coverage bc of his inaccuracy but most NFL teams have lit that defense up this year. The number of times Baker lined up on the LOS at OLB last game had my laughing me @ss off - a 220 glorified safety who's not physical at the point of attack. Why not wear a shirt that says "Run this Way".

 

[KrazyCane]

Having 4 down lineman isn’t the problem. Having your dline play with zero gap integrity and shooting gaps with a terrible zone coverage Is the issue.

3-4 requires a stud dt. Not a big fan of 3-4 in college. 4-3 or 4-2-5

I’m not talking about a traditional 3-4… in a 3-4 hybrid you don’t necessarily need to have a Jordan Davis or Vince Wilfork (although preferred) level NT just someone big enough to play that assignment like Ford and Miller that’s decent. Then you put Nesta on one side (RE) LT on the other (LE) and rotate which hybrid SLB or WLB you want lined up disguised as the 4th lineman.

OLB - Zach McCloud | Jahfari Harvey | DJ Johnson
RE - Nesta | Harris Hunte | Elijah Roberts
NT - Ford | Miller | Haye
LE - Taylor | Chantz | Ishmael
OLB- Sam Brooks | Thomas Davis
MLB a - Keontra Smith | Steed
MLB b - Chase Smith | TAC

CB - Stevenson | Ivey
CB - Couch | Dunson
Nickel - Clarke | Curtis

FS - Avantae | Kinchens
SS - James | Frierson

 

[supacane]

You want a taller front 7? No, we need more speed in lb room

Yes, i didn't say sacrifice speed. I said i want taller players, players like Chase Smith. Players who are fast but can take on blocks as well

 

[Coach Macho]

No 3/4 please. It’s bad enough we can’t get to the QB but now take away another DL in place of a LB and we can forget getting to the QB unless we blitz

Huh?
How?

 

[Coach Macho]

Bruh stop it.

The 3-4 nor a zone dominant defense will ever work at ANY Florida school.

The type of athlete Florida gets doesn't fit a 3-4.

Yall gotta stop saying Anything

Bruh what are you talking about?
All Miami ran during our hay day was cover-4 (zone).

If you're running a 'match' zone then it turns into man after route distribution anyway.

Tell me why our athletes don't fit a 3-4.

 

[Coach Macho]

a 3-4 is not what people traditionally think it is. Jaelan Phillips is an outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme for the Dolphins. Basically a stand up end who can drop into the flats.

Most people have absolutely zero clue what the 3-4 defense entails, or what it even looks like as a whole.

1. You don't have to 2-gap out of a 3-4 alignment. You can run an aggressive slanting one-gap version of the 3-4.

2. You can slide into a 4-front from 3-4 personnel. (aka 3-4 Under) Your Rush OLB walks down to the line of scrimmage and becomes essentially a DE.

3. Your DE's in the 3-4 would essentially be slightly undersized 4-3 DT's. (i.e. Leonard Taylor and JHH)

4. Your 3-4 OLB's would be slightly undersized 4-3 DE's. They could rush the passer, set the edge or drop into a zone.

All this talk about Florida not producing players for the 3-4 is a bunch of mumbo jumbo. You're telling me the state of Florida doesn't produce 6'3"-6'4" 275lb-295lb kids who can play DE in the 3-4? And then double duty as pass rushing DT's in the 4-2-5?
We don't produce 6'2"-6'4" 245lb-255lb kids who can play Rush OLB in a 3-4 and then slide down to DE in the 4-2-5?
We have some of these kids on our roster right now.

If anything, an aggressive one-gap 3-4 is predicated on quickness and slanting. Something we should be able to do.

 

[KrazyCane]

Most people have absolutely zero clue what the 3-4 defense entails, or what it even looks like as a whole.

1. You don't have to 2-gap out of a 3-4 alignment. You can run an aggressive slanting one-gap version of the 3-4.

2. You can slide into a 4-front from 3-4 personnel. (aka 3-4 Under) Your Rush OLB walks down to the line of scrimmage and becomes essentially a DE.

3. Your DE's in the 3-4 would essentially be slightly undersized 4-3 DT's. (i.e. Leonard Taylor and JHH)

4. Your 3-4 OLB's would be slightly undersized 4-3 DE's. They could rush the passer, set the edge or drop into a zone.

All this talk about Florida not producing players for the 3-4 is a bunch of mumbo jumbo. You're telling me the state of Florida doesn't produce 6'3"-6'4" 275lb-295lb kids who can play DE in the 3-4? And then double duty as pass rushing DT's in the 4-2-5?
We don't produce 6'2"-6'4" 245lb-255lb kids who can play Rush OLB in a 3-4 and then slide down to DE in the 4-2-5?
We have some of these kids on our roster right now.

If anything, an aggressive one-gap 3-4 is predicated on quickness and slanting. Something we should be able to do.

This exactly what I’m talking about not no **** 2 gap d’onofrio bs. the hybrid 3-4s like the Atlanta Falcons run and I also think LSU has their version under Dave Aranda.

 

[emrok]

What is useful in today's game is a 1 gap scheme that has a hybrid lb/de AND a hybrid lb/db. It allows you to vary your defensive alignments in the front and back without giving up too much. You can go from 3-3 to 4-2 to 4-3 to 3-4 and change coverages with checks. Very adaptable on the fly. Doesn't usually have gross mismatches. Can maintain gap integrity/run fits.

 

[canecrazy23]

a 3-4 is not what people traditionally think it is. Jaelan Phillips is an outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme for the Dolphins. Basically a stand up end who can drop into the flats.

Yes and it's the reason he is struggling. If he played a traditional 4/3 as a DE he would kill it. I watch him basically get pushed out of plays all the time.

 

[San Amaro Dr]

Bruh what are you talking about?
All Miami ran during our hay day was cover-4 (zone).

If you're running a 'match' zone then it turns into man after route distribution anyway.

Tell me why our athletes don't fit a 3-4.

Because 90% of the people on this board think you need a 396lb nose tackle to "clog the middle". People need to really pay attention to games across the country. Teams are multiple and are in their base defense like half the time. This isn't 1989..

 

[Canezum5]

Bruh what are you talking about?
All Miami ran during our hay day was cover-4 (zone).

If you're running a 'match' zone then it turns into man after route distribution anyway.

Tell me why our athletes don't fit a 3-4.

Tell me why our athletes fit a 3-4 and name the coach at any big 3 school whose been successful at it and I'll shut up.

 

[Canezum5]

Bruh what are you talking about?
All Miami ran during our hay day was cover-4 (zone).

If you're running a 'match' zone then it turns into man after route distribution anyway.

Tell me why our athletes don't fit a 3-4.

Which hay day?

There has been a few.

You telling me every championship Miami team ran cover 4 zone?

I never said zone was bad.. but zone dominant? Especially zone blitz....

Can't see it.

You swore by AL Golden and that 3-4. It was trash.

UF thought Grantham and his 3-4 was gonna bring some heat. Got ran outta town.

When has that **** ever worked at a Florida school?

 

[Canezum5]

Bruh what are you talking about?
All Miami ran during our hay day was cover-4 (zone).

If you're running a 'match' zone then it turns into man after route distribution anyway.

Tell me why our athletes don't fit a 3-4.

Also, since you coach in Florida. How many schools are teaching the kids 'match' zone concepts?

How many schools you see using the 3-4?

This is the 1st time I think we have ever disagreed when it comes to Xs and Os.

So these are genuine questions.

I dont mind being corrected

 

[Canezum5]

I didn’t say nothing about wanting a zone dominant defense but thanks for sharing mfkr

Fair enough.

Name me 5 3-4 style coaches that don't run predominantly zone defenses then....

I'll shut tf up!!!

 

[Deleted member 16870]

Most people have absolutely zero clue what the 3-4 defense entails, or what it even looks like as a whole.

1. You don't have to 2-gap out of a 3-4 alignment. You can run an aggressive slanting one-gap version of the 3-4.

2. You can slide into a 4-front from 3-4 personnel. (aka 3-4 Under) Your Rush OLB walks down to the line of scrimmage and becomes essentially a DE.

3. Your DE's in the 3-4 would essentially be slightly undersized 4-3 DT's. (i.e. Leonard Taylor and JHH)

4. Your 3-4 OLB's would be slightly undersized 4-3 DE's. They could rush the passer, set the edge or drop into a zone.

All this talk about Florida not producing players for the 3-4 is a bunch of mumbo jumbo. You're telling me the state of Florida doesn't produce 6'3"-6'4" 275lb-295lb kids who can play DE in the 3-4? And then double duty as pass rushing DT's in the 4-2-5?
We don't produce 6'2"-6'4" 245lb-255lb kids who can play Rush OLB in a 3-4 and then slide down to DE in the 4-2-5?
We have some of these kids on our roster right now.

If anything, an aggressive one-gap 3-4 is predicated on quickness and slanting. Something we should be able to do.

Isn’t your former Deerfield player Brandon Dorlus doing exactly that for Oregon lol you’re talking to people who think cover 6 is a prevent defense

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

You telling me every championship Miami team ran cover 4 zone?

Yes, under Sonny Lubick, our best defenses ever, period.

 

[cdmd]

Most people have absolutely zero clue what the 3-4 defense entails, or what it even looks like as a whole.

1. You don't have to 2-gap out of a 3-4 alignment. You can run an aggressive slanting one-gap version of the 3-4.

2. You can slide into a 4-front from 3-4 personnel. (aka 3-4 Under) Your Rush OLB walks down to the line of scrimmage and becomes essentially a DE.

3. Your DE's in the 3-4 would essentially be slightly undersized 4-3 DT's. (i.e. Leonard Taylor and JHH)

4. Your 3-4 OLB's would be slightly undersized 4-3 DE's. They could rush the passer, set the edge or drop into a zone.

All this talk about Florida not producing players for the 3-4 is a bunch of mumbo jumbo. You're telling me the state of Florida doesn't produce 6'3"-6'4" 275lb-295lb kids who can play DE in the 3-4? And then double duty as pass rushing DT's in the 4-2-5?
We don't produce 6'2"-6'4" 245lb-255lb kids who can play Rush OLB in a 3-4 and then slide down to DE in the 4-2-5?
We have some of these kids on our roster right now.

If anything, an aggressive one-gap 3-4 is predicated on quickness and slanting. Something we should be able to do.

You got to the core argument: 1-gap vs 2-gap

I think people on this board are conflating 3-4/4-3 with 1-gap/2-gap. We are all traumatized by D'onofrio's 2-gap 3-4 defense. The main issue with that defense was the 2-gap stand your ground, read, react nature of it. That is not "Miami" football.

Like you said, Miami needs a 1-gap attack upfield defense. Whether that comes as a 3-4 or 4-3 alignment is less important.
Bama runs an attacking 1-gap 3-4 defense, correct? Will Anderson is considered the best DE in the country, but he's listed as a LB for them.

(I'm not as knowledgeable about scheme as some other posters, so please correct me if I'm wrong @Coach Macho. Appreciate your insights!)