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Next DC needs to run a 3-4 hybrid

Coach Macho said:
Quite a few misconceptions in here.

First of all, if you're not multiple in today's game, you're slackin'.

3-4, 4-3, 3-3-5, 4-2-5, blah blah blah. Fvck all that.
Those numbers just describe personnel. (i.e. 3-4 = 3DL & 4LB)
What really matters is WHERE you line these guys up and are they able to execute what you're asking them to do.

You need the ability to move in and out of different fronts depending on what the offense is trying to do to you. (FYI - the 3-4 gives you this flexibility more so than any other defense)

I personally run a 3-4, but versus spread teams we remove the Sam OLB and put a Nickel out there. (so is it technically a 3-3-5?)
If we get a team that runs double TE's or heavier sets, we remove the Nickel and put a Sam OLB in the game. (bigger body)
On passing downs we generally slide our 3-4 into a 4 front.
On running downs we play a lot of 3-4 Tite Front to stop interior runs.
Versus Wing-T or Double TE sets we play a 5 front.

See what I'm getting at?

It's all about situations, formations, the objective you're trying to accomplish and WHERE you're lining guys up. Defenses in college football today are stopping the run with only 3 guys on the line-of-scrimmage...but because of the way they're lined-up, it forces all interior runs to BOUNCE where next level defenders clean everything up.

We don't have this level of imagination and implication on defense. We generally just line-up in our "pEnEtRaTiNg 4-3" regardless of what offenses are trying to do. We let the chips fall where they may. And they usually fall somewhere around the mark of 500 yards of offense. Diaz already thinks he's a guru, which is why we've never seen anything different being implemented during his tenure here. He could never bring himself to adopt anything from the rest of the college football world.

I want yall to think about this for a second...
When you're truly multiple, you're never living in ONE THING all game. You have certain fronts/coverages that you like versus certain offenses, or on certain downs/distances, but you're not LIVING in any one thing all game. SO YOU RECRUIT ACCORDINGLY.
Yes you need a good NT to run the 3-4, but if you're not LIVING IN IT then you can recruit a huge body like Jon Ford to play it. You sign him to do nothing more than play the NT when you run your 3-4 Tite front, and a few snaps at 1-technique when you're in a 4-3. Then you have guys like Taylor and JHH to play the DE spots in the 3-4 front with a Nik Bonitto at the Rush OLB spot. When you slide to a 4-3 or 4-2-5 on passing downs then you move Taylor and JHH to the DT spot, move Bonitto down to weak/rush DE, sub another DE to the other side...BAM! You're in a 4-2-5 with an athletic front.

If we're doing this on the HS level then there's no reason we can't do it at Miami. I don't get to choose the kids for my scheme, I have to work with what I get. I imagine it only gets easier when you can specifically recruit what you want/need.

At the end of the day you have to be multiple. You can't just line-up in a penetrating 4-3 all game and run upfield. It's not 2001 anymore. Offenses are way too good and way too multiple today.
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I feel like I learn a little more about the nuances of football every time I read a Macho post. Really good stuff.
 
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KrazyCane said:
After years of Diaz and his “scheme” I’ve come to the conclusion that the 4-2-5 is trash. The 3-4 hybrid is the best option for balance and effectiveness in both run and pass defense. Recruiting quality linebackers and hybrid DEs would improve as well.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Man it’s about the personnel not so much scheme.
 
Katzenboyer said:
How many people on this board ****ed and moaned when Golden ran 3-4? How many were begging for a fast, aggressive switch back to 4-3?
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You're right...
But I personally would've been okay with an aggressive/penetrating 3-4.

Louisville beat our a$$ with a fast/aggressive 3-4.
The 3-4 doesn't have to be run the way Golden and them ran it.
 
Coach Macho said:
Quite a few misconceptions in here.

First of all, if you're not multiple in today's game, you're slackin'.

3-4, 4-3, 3-3-5, 4-2-5, blah blah blah. Fvck all that.
Those numbers just describe personnel. (i.e. 3-4 = 3DL & 4LB)
What really matters is WHERE you line these guys up and are they able to execute what you're asking them to do.

You need the ability to move in and out of different fronts depending on what the offense is trying to do to you. (FYI - the 3-4 gives you this flexibility more so than any other defense)

I personally run a 3-4, but versus spread teams we remove the Sam OLB and put a Nickel out there. (so is it technically a 3-3-5?)
If we get a team that runs double TE's or heavier sets, we remove the Nickel and put a Sam OLB in the game. (bigger body)
On passing downs we generally slide our 3-4 into a 4 front.
On running downs we play a lot of 3-4 Tite Front to stop interior runs.
Versus Wing-T or Double TE sets we play a 5 front.

See what I'm getting at?

It's all about situations, formations, the objective you're trying to accomplish and WHERE you're lining guys up. Defenses in college football today are stopping the run with only 3 guys on the line-of-scrimmage...but because of the way they're lined-up, it forces all interior runs to BOUNCE where next level defenders clean everything up.

We don't have this level of imagination and implication on defense. We generally just line-up in our "pEnEtRaTiNg 4-3" regardless of what offenses are trying to do. We let the chips fall where they may. And they usually fall somewhere around the mark of 500 yards of offense. Diaz already thinks he's a guru, which is why we've never seen anything different being implemented during his tenure here. He could never bring himself to adopt anything from the rest of the college football world.

I want yall to think about this for a second...
When you're truly multiple, you're never living in ONE THING all game. You have certain fronts/coverages that you like versus certain offenses, or on certain downs/distances, but you're not LIVING in any one thing all game. SO YOU RECRUIT ACCORDINGLY.
Yes you need a good NT to run the 3-4, but if you're not LIVING IN IT then you can recruit a huge body like Jon Ford to play it. You sign him to do nothing more than play the NT when you run your 3-4 Tite front, and a few snaps at 1-technique when you're in a 4-3. Then you have guys like Taylor and JHH to play the DE spots in the 3-4 front with a Nik Bonitto at the Rush OLB spot. When you slide to a 4-3 or 4-2-5 on passing downs then you move Taylor and JHH to the DT spot, move Bonitto down to weak/rush DE, sub another DE to the other side...BAM! You're in a 4-2-5 with an athletic front.

If we're doing this on the HS level then there's no reason we can't do it at Miami. I don't get to choose the kids for my scheme, I have to work with what I get. I imagine it only gets easier when you can specifically recruit what you want/need.

At the end of the day you have to be multiple. You can't just line-up in a penetrating 4-3 all game and run upfield. It's not 2001 anymore. Offenses are way too good and way too multiple today.
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That is exactly why I prefer a 3-3-5 base defense. It is so much easier to disguise and move around personnel. I think it is much easier shifting from a 3-4 base package to a 4-3 adjustment package vs vice versa. Like you said, you can't live in one base defense, you should have packages prepared for each of the many situations that arise during a game.

The school I'm at, we are running a 4-3, with MOD coverage out of 4-2-5 spread adjustment when needed. Coverage is simple 2 reed man match with twins. We make the job of opposing OC's so much easier because our only adjustment is apexing the SAM. Obviously, we set the front, but after 2 or 3 drives the OC can easily counter what we are doing on the back end. I had to plea and bargin with the DC to put in a 3-2-6 cover 1 package for end of half/game.
 
No 3/4 please. It’s bad enough we can’t get to the QB but now take away another DL in place of a LB and we can forget getting to the QB unless we blitz
 
canecrazy23 said:
No 3/4 please. It’s bad enough we can’t get to the QB but now take away another DL in place of a LB and we can forget getting to the QB unless we blitz
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a 3-4 is not what people traditionally think it is. Jaelan Phillips is an outside linebacker in a 3-4 scheme for the Dolphins. Basically a stand up end who can drop into the flats.
 
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KrazyCane said:
After years of Diaz and his “scheme” I’ve come to the conclusion that the 4-2-5 is trash. The 3-4 hybrid is the best option for balance and effectiveness in both run and pass defense. Recruiting quality linebackers and hybrid DEs would improve as well.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
The 4-2-5 is not trash in my opinion. It’s a great scheme with the right players and the right DC.

The problem with Manny’s 4-2-5 is that EVERYONE, and I do mean everyone knows where the pressure is coming from. Even from a persons perspective that doesn’t watch a lot of football can diagnose the Mannys blitz packages.

actually I don’t think manny runs a 4-2-5

on most occasions, it’s looks more like a 6-0-5 or maybe a 7-0-4 if you know what I mean.

Serious question here….how many times has Manny been fired as a DC at a major program? Twice right?

ok, so before the third time being fired as a DC, you think maybe some changes are needed? Nope
 
Hardcore Cane said:
The 4-2-5 is not trash in my opinion. It’s a great scheme with the right players and the right DC.

The problem with Manny’s 4-2-5 is that EVERYONE, and I do mean everyone knows where the pressure is coming from. Even from a persons perspective that doesn’t watch a lot of football can diagnose the Mannys blitz packages.

actually I don’t think manny runs a 4-2-5

on most occasions, it’s looks more like a 6-0-5 or maybe a 7-0-4 if you know what I mean.

Serious question here….how many times has Manny been fired as a DC at a major program? Twice right?

ok, so before the third time being fired as a DC, you think maybe some changes are needed? Nope
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His first year under Richt Manny ran a 4-3 (a traditional 4-3). During the off-season he made changes and brought in the 4-2-5...If I remember correctly.

Manny has been willing to make changes but he does so way too late. Additionally- and probably - his biggest fault is his changes (at least defensively) don't necessarily deviate from his core philosophy. 4-3, 4-2-5, odd/even etc. he values TFLs over sound defensive principles. Take a look at how Smart schemes his defense...he schemes it so there are 3 clear lines of run defense even if it means limited TFLs. Smart would rather give up 2 or 3 yards a play than get a TFL then give up a 12 yard run.
 
It's basically all the same these days with the only difference being whether you run an even front or odd front. If you have a space eating nose tackle who can command a double team and not be moved, you can line him up at 0 tech and play your odd front. Unfortunately without a nose tackle like that, you can't really play that style of defense. Otherwise a 3-4,4-3,3-3-5, 4,-2-5, is all the same thing with a bunch of hybrid positions.
 
Silentobserver said:
His first year under Richt Manny ran a 4-3 (a traditional 4-3). During the off-season he made changes and brought in the 4-2-5...If I remember correctly.

Manny has been willing to make changes but he does so way too late. Additionally- and probably - his biggest fault is his changes (at least defensively) don't necessarily deviate from his core philosophy. 4-3, 4-2-5, odd/even etc. he values TFLs over sound defensive principles. Take a look at how Smart schemes his defense...he schemes it so there are 3 clear lines of run defense even if it means limited TFLs. Smart would rather give up 2 or 3 yards a play than get a TFL then give up a 12 yard run.
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Manny switched to the 4-2-5 after the 2017 season but it really isn't all that much of a difference since the "Striker" is literally just a fancy way of saying "faster strong side linebacker".

The philosophy is more based on athletes available. In Miami, you're going to be able to recruiter smaller faster defensive linemen so it makes sense to focus on a penetrating line that can make stops behind the line of scrimmage. You really need the horses to run the defense that Georgia uses. If you don't have the stout defensive line that can't get moved, you end up with something like we had under D'Onofrio where we didn't make plays behind the line and weren't strong enough upfront to keep from getting pushed around. Years of recruiting at near the top of college football allows Georgia to play that style. If you were to try to run that exact scheme with the guys Miami has, you'd get bullied. The game is much easier when you can just out talent everyone. That's why guys like Coker, Chud and Randy Shannon looked so good as Miami coordinators. They never had to do anything special, just play bland schemes and out talent every opponenet.
 
KrazyCane said:
After years of Diaz and his “scheme” I’ve come to the conclusion that the 4-2-5 is trash. The 3-4 hybrid is the best option for balance and effectiveness in both run and pass defense. Recruiting quality linebackers and hybrid DEs would improve as well.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Bruh stop it.

The 3-4 nor a zone dominant defense will ever work at ANY Florida school.

The type of athlete Florida gets doesn't fit a 3-4.

Yall gotta stop saying Anything
 
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In today's game, your defense needs to have the following personnel:

4-man front
1 MLB
2 Hybrids (S/LB types)
3 CB's
1 FS

3-man front
2 MLB
2 Hybrids (S/LB types)
3 CB's
1 FS
 
Canezum5 said:
Bruh stop it.

The 3-4 nor a zone dominant defense will ever work at ANY Florida school.

The type of athlete Florida gets doesn't fit a 3-4.

Yall gotta stop saying Anything
Click to expand...

I didn’t say nothing about wanting a zone dominant defense but thanks for sharing mfkr
 
KrazyCane said:
After years of Diaz and his “scheme” I’ve come to the conclusion that the 4-2-5 is trash. The 3-4 hybrid is the best option for balance and effectiveness in both run and pass defense. Recruiting quality linebackers and hybrid DEs would improve as well.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
It doesn’t matter what you run if you recruit players that tackle each other.
 
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