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Myth Busters: Lack of NFL Talent

I like the fact that we now focus on building depth & talent on the lines(especially OL) having a NFL safety or Rb making plays is cool but Building the trenches instantly raises the floor of a football program.
 
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Gransapo said:
Good morning, I believe that by setting the start period in 2004 you are including the tail end of our best teams.

In addition, I believe that the quality of those players created a confirmation bias in NFL evaluators which led to some Miami players to be overvalued and drafted just to flame out quickly in the league.

I will do a deeper dive when I have more time but by limiting the universe from 2010 - 2024. Miami falls down to 3rd. With Clemson 1st and FSU 2nd.

This also doesn’t take into consideration the quality of the players drafted. For example, Clemson had Watson, Lawrence, Wilkins, Etienne, et al, drafted during that time.

FSU had Winston, Cook, Ramsey, James, Akers, et al, drafted during that time.

Even teams with less draft picks have produced more impact players: Donald (Pitt), Matt Ryan (BC), Rivers (NC State) & Jackson (Louisville).

The best players Miami has produced in that time period are probably Rousseau and oft injured Jason Phillips.

For 20 plus years, the coaches here have been terrible, the players overrated, and the administration uninterested.

My point still stands: Mario is by far the best coach we have had, who has brought in the best players, and has the most support from administration.

I believe he is going to have the most successful draft class of Miami players since the early aughts. And already gave us our best season in forever.

It’s Mario or bust.
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1. Great morning to u

2. I actually replied to a post showing our rankings from 2015-2024 to satisfy the “sliding scale” views

3. Our quality still completely crapped on the rest of the ACC Coastal during this time frame

4. U cannot ignore the 1st 10 yrs b/c it’s still an indictment, actually a bigger indictment that the “lack of talent argument” is & has been an excuse to justify mediocrity.

5. This has zero to do w/ Mario & everything to do w/ showing the talent argument is moot.

6. It’s OK, b/c the further I do exposés on myth busters, just like I did in 2023 to show what’s considered elite talent acquisition, the more it’s going to expose the excuses used is nothing more than fans copium.
 
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Gocanes1990 said:
Not to be a jerk and I always love your optimism but we wasted qB 1/1. That may never happen at Miami again. It may happen next year if CB has some lights come on… but I don’t expect that. It’s disappointing bc we had such potential and we were failed by a **** system and poor evaluation on the defensive side of the ball. Falls on Mc..
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Can’t argue any of that. You’re right.

But to look at it from a different view, you don’t NEED QB 1/1 to win. **** yeah we wasted him. **** yeah it’s on Mario and everyone else. But notre dame got there with Riley Leonard. So I think the point here and some of what I’ve been saying the whole thread is you need a whole team. We just saw what happens with QB1 when the defense is a trainwreck.

So that was my overall thought when saying I like the overall trajectory. Yes, we will take a step back on offense. But we better **** sure take a big step forward on defense. Overall, the team has a chance to be as good or better, even though at a very micro look, you'd think that wasn't the case losing a talent like Cam Ward.

But the #1 offense and #1 billion defense gets you......not much. 10 wins, some fun, beating the dog**** out of fsu and UiF, but not much else.

What does the #~20 offense and #~40 defense get you?

Oregon wound up with the #12 offense and #30 defense last year. They weren't bad.
 
SinisterCane said:
Another issue that has played a role in deteriorating Miami football is that we don’t have true competition for playing time
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I’d say this goes back to the “we have good enough talent to win in the ACC but not enough to win a championship” line of thinking. If you have a ton of heavy competition at every spot, you’re either an elite talent squad or a team with a bunch of equally average bums. Could our coaches have done more to encourage competition? Yeah, especially at quarterback but it’s not like we had all these awesome dudes sitting on the bench who weren’t given a chance to compete.
 
DTP said:
I’d say this goes back to the “we have good enough talent to win in the ACC but not enough to win a championship” line of thinking. If you have a ton of heavy competition at every spot, you’re either an elite talent squad or a team with a bunch of equally average bums. Could our coaches have done more to encourage competition? Yeah, especially at quarterback but it’s not like we had all these awesome dudes sitting on the bench who weren’t given a chance to compete.
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Watching team captain Kiko just failed miserably week after week it’s just one example
 
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SinisterCane said:
Watching team captain Kiko just failed miserably week after week it’s just one example
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Yeah but did he play because the coaches just had a crush on him or because Guidry’s overly complicated defensive calls were too much for the younger guys? I don’t think this is an issue where someone is outplaying the other guy but the coaches just don’t want to give them a chance because….they like to suck. Another classic fan reaction is just assuming the backup is better because the starter sucks. Maybe the other guys were even worse? The backup quarterback is everyone’s favorite player until he has to actually play and everyone finds out why he was the backup.
 
DTP said:
Yeah but did he play because the coaches just had a crush on him or because Guidry’s overly complicated defensive calls were too much for the younger guys? I don’t think this is an issue where someone is outplaying the other guy but the coaches just don’t want to give them a chance because….they like to suck. Another classic fan reaction is just assuming the backup is better because the starter sucks. Maybe the other guys were even worse? The backup quarterback is everyone’s favorite player until he has to actually play and everyone finds out why he was the backup.
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Is their concern that we can't bring in better options, yet we boast about recruiting rankings?
 
DTP said:
Yeah but did he play because the coaches just had a crush on him or because Guidry’s overly complicated defensive calls were too much for the younger guys? I don’t think this is an issue where someone is outplaying the other guy but the coaches just don’t want to give them a chance because….they like to suck. Another classic fan reaction is just assuming the backup is better because the starter sucks. Maybe the other guys were even worse? The backup quarterback is everyone’s favorite player until he has to actually play and everyone finds out why he was the backup.
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At some point, you have to hold players accountable even if the person behind him is just as physically talented but may play slow do the schemes or whatever


you just can’t let people fail because they know the playbook or they are senior
 
I 100% agree with the argument that we were more talented than most of the teams we've lost to over the years.

That said, while I complained a lot about losing top recruits to other teams, my biggest complaint from Coker through to today wasn't the amount of talent we had, but the "lumpiness" of talent. We'd be strong at one position, but trash at another. Our Offense vs Defense this past season is a perfect example of that. I honestly thought Mario would fix it, and for the most part he has. But we are still way too thin at a couple spots. That's one way to lose games you shouldn't lose based on talent.

Not to mention a whole lot of our coaches were trash. Pat Nix, Dorito, James Coley, the Donk, Jon Richt on and on and on.
 
grover said:
I 100% agree with the argument that we were more talented than most of the teams we've lost to over the years.

That said, while I complained a lot about losing top recruits to other teams, my biggest complaint from Coker through to today wasn't the amount of talent we had, but the "lumpiness" of talent. We'd be strong at one position, but trash at another. Our Offense vs Defense this past season is a perfect example of that. I honestly thought Mario would fix it, and for the most part he has. But we are still way too thin at a couple spots. That's one way to lose games you shouldn't lose based on talent.

Not to mention a whole lot of our coaches were trash. Pat Nix, Dorito, James Coley, the Donk, Jon Richt on and on and on.
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He fixed it for the most part, but in the most recent season of playing football he didn't. How tf do you hit send on this?
 
canecrazy23 said:
Go back and read his post. He's saying the Talent IS there and has been.
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QBs drafted since joining ACC first 3 rounds since 2004: 0

OL: 4 (LOL)
DL: 6 (LOL) even more funny is ZERO DTs


3 of the most important position groups in football we’ve had 10 players drafted in 20 years

TrumpyCane thinks that is a massive problem

But Mario has zero excuses this season, 99.9% of the team is his
 
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SinisterCane said:
At some point, you have to hold players accountable even if the person behind him is just as physically talented but may play slow do the schemes or whatever


you just can’t let people fail because they know the playbook or they are senior
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But do you bench a guy for a player who is worse?

You’re assuming the next guy is better. I’m assuming the coach isn’t purposefully playing the worse player.
 
cway313 said:
Is their concern that we can't bring in better options, yet we boast about recruiting rankings?
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Who’s concern?

Someone in another thread mentioned bringing in another transfer linebacker. I said that if they need another transfer linebacker, whoever scouts recruits and coaches the linebackers needs to be fired.
 
DTP said:
Who’s concern?

Someone in another thread mentioned bringing in another transfer linebacker. I said that if they need another transfer linebacker, whoever scouts recruits and coaches the linebackers needs to be fired.
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D$ said they plan to bring in a LB. Nicholson is gone.
 
First off, this is a good original post, or I wouldn't be bothering to respond with a thoughtful reply.

I do not seek to refute it, but rather to introduce a corollary for the sake of Nu'Ance (first cousin twice removed of Nu'Keese, for those who remember him).

We have been the nation's most underachieving team, given the talent we've had. Full stop, no argument. 2014, in particular, is the worst corching job of all time in CFB. If you don't believe me, look up our rooster.

We have turned countless 9 win seasons into 7-5 by snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. No team makes more backbreaking, catastrophic errors, at the costliest moment. The play we can't afford to **** up, we always implode.

I am not going to do an in-depth analysis of the rosters of all our opponents for the given years.

However, if one were to look more closely at both our talent and the opponent's, I believe a theme would emerge: even where we have better overall roster talent, we lack sufficient matchup advantages to where we'd be able to simply steamroll an opponent with talent.

I.e., in one game, our WRs might be significantly better than their DBs, but our OL isn't better than their DL. In the next game, we have a clear advantage against their running game, but we will get chewed up against in the short range passing game.

Matchups matter, and we haven't had enough, sufficiently wide matchup advantages to play a "B" or "C" game and beat opponents. We've had to play a very good game, and failed.

Quite simply, our rosters have had enough talent to outperform what we have done. But, our rosters have not had the requisite top end or depth to survive an "off game" against a better-than-average opponent.
 
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