Miami vs LSU player grades (ProFootballFocus)

[kryptonite]

PFF isn't a formula.

It's subjective grading where they have a person review and grade the game tape.

To act like its anything other than someone's opinion shows you don't understand it

You're right, I don't understand but I'm fairly certain you don't either. These opinions are given by people who don't give a sht either way watching film and deciding if a guy did his job on that play, as opposed to everybody here watching a game where they care about the success of the play and players. To say it's "an opinion" while correct, misses the point. Like recruiting rankings, it's the best measure we have at this point. As I mentioned, a player may grade poorly but still be of more value to a team or the fans than another player.

How about this:

"Memories can deceive, and highlights by their nature miss out on the vast majority of a player’s game, but PFF covers every player on every play of every game to give you the most comprehensive analysis of player performance you can find anywhere.

Because of this, sometimes the grades will show unexpected results. Just because a player isn’t a household name, doesn’t mean he isn’t capable of having an excellent game, or even having an excellent season that is just passing by the notice of most people."

PFF Player Grades | Pro Football Focus

 

[RightSaidFred]

I am glad they put this out. Some of our UM players need to see this. Our fans are up in arms because some kids grades are low but this is the reality! Maybe if guys like McIntosh and Norton had heeded their draft grades (which were probably in the high 70s) and stayed in school they wouldn't be fighting for a NFL roster spot right now and on the verge of being cut.

I would rather grades like this give the player a true standing of where they are at in the eyes of the NFL. Instead of just reading message boards and press clippings about how great they are from people who have no clue.

Exactly. And for anyone doubting PFF, NFL teams use these metrics to grade out their own players. I know the Dolphins use it.

I think people are getting production and potential mixed up. They're two different things. Some of our kids have very high ceilings but aren't playing to their true potential YET. Others have lower ceilings but are grading out better.

The whole thing just highlights how important COACHING is. It's one thing to be big and fast, but you have to execute on your assignment every single down as well.

 

[kryptonite]

Not saying that. But lets call a spade a spade here. I don't know what McIntosh or Nortons draft grades were but whatever it was..it was spot on because they both got drafted late and are struggling to make teams. 90% of the posters on here assumed McIntosh was a 1st-2nd round pick..maybe 3rd at the worst... What did NFL scouts know that we didn't?

As a UM fan for 30+ years I am just tired of seeing these kids leave early, shunning the draft grades they get from the NFL advisory board, get drafted late, barely make teams (if they make it at all), when they could have stayed and increased their stock. Just ready for that cycle to end.

That said, I don't know if PFF is credible or not. But history has shown we view our kids in a lot greater light then most NFL scouts do the last few drafts.

PFF is a measure of what a player has done while draft grades are a projection of what they will do. That projection takes other things into account. Does the player have the right measurables? Does he seem "coachable"? Is he prone to getting in trouble? In what order will teams be picking, and what are their needs?

I'm sure there's a correlation between the two, but they aren't the same thing.

 

[RightSaidFred]

Lol go get ‘em Pops! I would be interested in knowing the formulas they use for the various positions because I was shocked to say the least about some of their grades. Especially Shaq, AR82, and Joe Jackson. Oh well, this points to a close game at first; but if their grade is right regarding QB’s, Rosier helps us pull away in the 2nd half to victory.

They grade every play by every player in every game. They grade what he did on each play between -2 and 2. Then they add up the totals.

Each player/play/game is graded independently by three analysts, and then they take the average.

 

[gcane44]

PFF is obviously far from perfect. It's not like the graders know with certainty every players' assignment on each play. That's a potentially big gap in evaluation. With that said, it is a great tool to inform our evaluation. Definitely not the end-all be-all, but it is a good additional level of analysis to take into account.

Who else is giving us evaluations on all the players on a play-by-play basis? I find it useful

 

[Astcloud11]

Exactly. And for anyone doubting PFF, NFL teams use these metrics to grade out their own players. I know the Dolphins use it.

I think people are getting production and potential mixed up. They're two different things. Some of our kids have very high ceilings but aren't playing to their true potential YET. Others have lower ceilings but are grading out better.

The whole thing just highlights how important COACHING is. It's one thing to be big and fast, but you have to execute on your assignment every single down as well.

So pretty much PFF will be perfect for a year and then totally trash for the rest of its existence.

 

[ddann]

Exactly. And for anyone doubting PFF, NFL teams use these metrics to grade out their own players. I know the Dolphins use it.

Well, that explains a lot.

 

[moshated305]

I am glad they put this out. Some of our UM players need to see this. Our fans are up in arms because some kids grades are low but this is the reality! Maybe if guys like McIntosh and Norton had heeded their draft grades (which were probably in the high 70s) and stayed in school they wouldn't be fighting for a NFL roster spot right now and on the verge of being cut.

I would rather grades like this give the player a true standing of where they are at in the eyes of the NFL. Instead of just reading message boards and press clippings about how great they are from people who have no clue.

Those numbers are based on how they played last year. It's just advance stats, basically an efficiency rating. It's not their current draft grade. Example AR is still getting first round talk despite that grade because his freshman grade was much higher and everyone knows his potential when healthy.

 

[calinative umstudent]

Injuries always cause a lack of concentration. There's no way he drops those passes if he's healthy.

Our WRs are going to be open a lot September 2nd, rankings be damned.

I mean you don't need to convince me. I think he's a 1st rounder.

But the fact is HE DID have stone hands last season. I hope it was due to the injury throwing him completely off. We'll see this year. But if he doesn't drastically improve his catching, he won't go in the 1st, regardless how athletic he is.

 

[bshaw28]

Canes players were generally drafted above PFF's Top 250 ranking in last years draft:

Chad Thomas - PFF 93, drafted 67
Chris Herndon - PFF 225 , drafted 107
Mark Walton - PFF 124, drafted 112
RJ McIntosh - PFF 111 , drafted 139
Braxton Berrios - PFF NR, drafted 210
Kendrick Norton - PFF NR, drafted 242

But PFF is just 1 site/opinion. A players rating might differ wildly depending on what site you're looking at. It's such an inexact science.

 

[ThomasM]

I mean you don't need to convince me. I think he's a 1st rounder.

But the fact is HE DID have stone hands last season. I hope it was due to the injury throwing him completely off. We'll see this year. But if he doesn't drastically improve his catching, he won't go in the 1st, regardless how athletic he is.

The dropsies were not a problem his freshman year. They seemed to only start last season, which leads me to believe the injury was the cause. I have had my fair share of back and knee problems over the years, and I promise you it effects everything. Even when the pain isn't there, you remember what it felt like and you try to avoid doing certain things, or doing them differently so you don't hurt. If he's concerned with an ankle, his focus is naturally going to be off his hands.

Just my two cents. I think he will have a great year.

 

[Mikeiavelli]

Not saying that. But lets call a spade a spade here. I don't know what McIntosh or Nortons draft grades were but whatever it was..it was spot on because they both got drafted late and are struggling to make teams. 90% of the posters on here assumed McIntosh was a 1st-2nd round pick..maybe 3rd at the worst... What did NFL scouts know that we didn't?

As a UM fan for 30+ years I am just tired of seeing these kids leave early, shunning the draft grades they get from the NFL advisory board, get drafted late, barely make teams (if they make it at all), when they could have stayed and increased their stock. Just ready for that cycle to end.

That said, I don't know if PFF is credible or not. But history has shown we view our kids in a lot greater light then most NFL scouts do the last few drafts.

I think now CMR will have a better chance getting kids to stay. They will see the difference between what happened to last year's departing JRs and what is likely to happen with guys like JJ and MJ this year. Add onto to that success on the field and we should see more kids stay for their SR year.

 

[calinative umstudent]

If you take a look Shaq is probably the one of the lowest rank LBs in the ACC. I think this list all the pre-season watch list All American list are opinions of writers.. they are popularity based.. I take these like a grain of salt that I use before taking a shot of Tequila.

Yeah I mean I don't completely trust PFF obviously, at the end of the day they're subjectively grading every play for the players. And who's to say Shaq wasn't assigned an A gap blitz, and thats the reason he didn't hit the B/C gap to make the tfl,etc,etc. They don't know the plays, and are just making guesses on what the player was supposed to do. But that doesn't mean they have no idea what they're talking about.

I love Shaq and think he's going to be Great this year. I don't think he quite took that next step into greatness that we were all expecting him to last season though (very high expectations for a sophomore). He improved for sure though, and I think this is the year he's going to be undeniably great. But as far as the difference between him and mike, imo its that mike generally reacts a little faster and commits to it, though it might honestly be more of an illusion because Mike lines up a yard closer to the LOS than Shaq does, which just puts him in the position to get there first while Shaq has that extra yard that he needs to fight off the Guards...while Mike is generally free to attack the play. So obviously shaq has the harder job.

And for anyone that wants to watch heres the only cutups shaq has thus far: vs FSU, vs Wisconsin, and vs Clemson ...wish there were more because honestly I don't think he was very good in these games. FSU imo was average, with a bad 1st half and a good 2nd half.
Clemson was a massive improvement from the FSU game. Made tons of plays and didnt have many negative plays. Overall I'd say a good performance, but not quite great. Wisconsing though was just below average. He got lost shedding blocks way to often and it just felt like he wasn't very involved in the plays, which isn't good. Plus a few missed tackles and a dropped pick.

 

[UknowWhat]

Shaq is very good. He needs more big plays to stand out as a difference maker.

I agree 100%... told Shaq I would rather 10 big plays and 25 less takles.... Clowney was always good but the hit on the Michigan RB made him a Gawd ..

 

[UknowWhat]

Yeah I mean I don't completely trust PFF obviously, at the end of the day they're subjectively grading every play for the players. And who's to say Shaq wasn't assigned an A gap blitz, and thats the reason he didn't hit the B/C gap to make the tfl,etc,etc. They don't know the plays, and are just making guesses on what the player was supposed to do. But that doesn't mean they have no idea what they're talking about.

I love Shaq and think he's going to be Great this year. I don't think he quite took that next step into greatness that we were all expecting him to last season though (very high expectations for a sophomore). He improved for sure though, and I think this is the year he's going to be undeniably great. But as far as the difference between him and mike, imo its that mike generally reacts a little faster and commits to it, though it might honestly be more of an illusion because Mike lines up a yard closer to the LOS than Shaq does, which just puts him in the position to get there first while Shaq has that extra yard that he needs to fight off the Guards...while Mike is generally free to attack the play. So obviously shaq has the harder job.

And for anyone that wants to watch heres the only cutups shaq has thus far: vs FSU, vs Wisconsin, and vs Clemson ...wish there were more because honestly I don't think he was very good in these games. FSU imo was average, with a bad 1st half and a good 2nd half.
Clemson was a massive improvement from the FSU game. Made tons of plays and didnt have many negative plays. Overall I'd say a good performance, but not quite great. Wisconsing though was just below average. He got lost shedding blocks way to often and it just felt like he wasn't very involved in the plays, which isn't good. Plus a few missed tackles and a dropped pick.

I agree to some... the WLB will always have a clearer path to the ball..nature of the position.. if you have a good MLB .. even a clearer path..MLB with great 1 and 3 Techs often get clean shots.. watch some of Pink's clean shots (not blitzes .. though some look at blitzes) then rewind and see what's going on with Shaq... usually you will find him completely plugging a gap sometimes taking on 2 creating a path.. this is more often the case on the strength side of the play and SAM having the lane.... imo who should have the most tackles...SAM..then SS.. then WLB then MLB ..then FS and the Strongside DE... I don't think any one on our team deserved it...but Shaq was awarded with the game MVP plaque... coaches at all the levels he played love him...cause he gives his all... one of the things he is most proud of is never missing a day out of summer camp and only 1 day out of Spring while at UM... I will get off the soap box now defending my child...lol ... if we all knew about some of the things that go on that I dare not disclose... he would be love that much more...Diaz Richt Beason Vilma Williams all love him for a reason.. His game often looks bad to me from the stands on don't seem that bad when I watch it on TV and can see the entire play

 

[calinative umstudent]

I agree to some... the WLB will always have a clearer path to the ball..nature of the position.. if you have a good MLB .. even a clearer path..MLB with great 1 and 3 Techs often get clean shots.. watch some of Pink's clean shots (not blitzes .. though some look at blitzes) then rewind and see what's going on with Shaq... usually you will find him completely plugging a gap sometimes taking on 2 creating a path.. this is more often the case on the strength side of the play and SAM having the lane.... imo who should have the most tackles...SAM..then SS.. then WLB then MLB ..then FS and the Strongside DE... I don't think any one on our team deserved it...but Shaq was awarded with the game MVP plaque... coaches at all the levels he played love him...cause he gives his all... one of the things he is most proud of is never missing a day out of summer camp and only 1 day out of Spring while at UM... I will get off the soap box now defending my child...lol ... if we all knew about some of the things that go on that I dare not disclose... he would be love that much more...Diaz Richt Beason Vilma Williams all love him for a reason.. His game often looks bad to me from the stands on don't seem that bad when I watch it on TV and can see the entire play

Yeah I fully agree. Thats what stood out when I was watching the cutups, and why I think it makes sense a analyst system like pff would rank Mike higher. I ALWAYS see Shaq fighting the OL. but Mike stays having the clear path allowing him to hit the gap hard. He really is freed up to make most of his plays (while most of shaqs best plays aren't just a free tunnel to the RB) And thats why Shaq needs to be the best block shedder we have. I think frosh year he really struggled with it being a true frosh going against huge OLineman. But last year I think he was very good at actually shedding the blocks, but it was just sometimes he'd lose track of the Ball when doing it, and take himself out of the play. I think this year he's going to manhandle OLineman.

Which game did he get game mvp for? Clemson? If so, then I agree he deserved it. He made a lot of plays actually.
And I'm pretty sure every fan fully agrees that he's a great Cane. I think he keeps everyone on the defense in line, and is clearly the leader of the defense with Jaquan. I think he takes that next step this year that Diaz has been challenging all them to take.