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MEGA Mega Merged Stadium Thread.

Tru C said:
No, not for the specific REASONS I am laying out, its not.

As a renter, you ultimately have no control over that property. Its a false sense of security. If the Fins moved to another part of Florida, as they have already done in their history, does Miami get a say on if Miami owns HRS? How much of a say did Miami get with the OB?

Can Miami put a museum or do other Cane specific renovations at HRS without permission?
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Take my advice; don’t argue or go back & forth w/ dude (no pun intended). Nothing is wrong about anything involving Miami.
 
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Tru C said:
No, not for the specific REASONS I am laying out, its not.

As a renter, you ultimately have no control over that property. Its a false sense of security. If the Fins moved to another part of Florida, as they have already done in their history, does Miami get a say on if Miami owns HRS? How much of a say did Miami get with the OB?

Can Miami put a museum or do other Cane specific renovations at HRS without permission?
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If Miami makes an offer to Ross and is willing to subsidize something that benefits his facility, I'm quite sure dude would have no problem with it. I've always been curious as to whether we've talked to them about building a Miami specific locker room, and paying for it ourselves.

Again, you and Rell keep talking about the benefits of ownership as if the rest of us don't get it. We all understand that there are benefits, there's two major problems: It's cost prohibitive AND there isn't any parcels of land available that are realistic options. There's a reason why I keep saying "Barring an act of God that levels South Miami or Sunset Place going to pot", because land is the big issue, COST is the second one. Your argument is the same one I hear from old people in regards to younger people buying a home "Young people would save a ton of money if they bought a home”. Yes, we know that but if I can’t afford a down payment and there isn’t enough inventory then here we are.
 
Canedude08 said:
If Miami makes an offer to Ross and is willing to subsidize something that benefits his facility, I'm quite sure dude would have no problem with it. I've always been curious as to whether we've talked to them about building a Miami specific locker room, and paying for it ourselves.

Again, you and Rell keep talking about the benefits of ownership as if the rest of us don't get it. We all understand that there are benefits, there's two major problems: It's cost prohibitive AND there isn't any parcels of land available that are realistic options. There's a reason why I keep saying "Barring an act of God that levels South Miami or Sunset Place going to pot", because land is the big issue, COST is the second one. Your argument is the same one I hear from old people in regards to younger people buying a home "Young people would save a ton of money if they bought a home”. Yes, we know that but if I can’t afford a down payment and there isn’t enough inventory then here we are.
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And thats fine but lets be honest, there are folks, including in this thread, that DON’T see the value in ownership in regards to this issue.

You are saying (I believe) that if Miami CAN raise the money and find the land, then its a no brainer? If that is your only contention then I have no beef with you. But i believe one poster even states that even if Miami could raise the money and or acquire the land, it would still be an irresponsible investment because that money
should be used toward other things, like NIL. Huge difference in what it sounds like you are saying as opposed to being against the idea of it at its essence as opposed to just not thinking its realistic.

With that said and to what i believe is YOUR point, just because you may not have the money today, doesn’t mean you don't do things to work toward that goal in the future. Things change over time. Miami in 1950 or even 1986, is not Miami of 2023 financially. U-Health of yesterday is not the same today financially. Every company should have strategic goals for the future that they may not be ready or able to take on today. That also goes for land and government. Land not available today could be in the future, a Coral Gables or Dade government that is adversarial today, may not be in the future.

In my opinion, do what you have control over in the interim. State a desire, come up with a plan to raise the money and proposals to offer to local governments that may entice and be beneficial for all parties to at least listen.
 
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Tru C said:
And thats fine but lets be honest, there are folks, including in this thread, that DON’T see the value in ownership in regards to this issue.

You are saying (I believe) that if Miami CAN raise the money and find the land, then its a no brainer? If that is your only contention then I have no beef with you. But i believe one poster even states that even if Miami could raise the money and or acquire the land, it would still be an irresponsible investment because that money
should be used toward other things, like NIL. Huge difference in what it sounds like you are saying as opposed to being against the idea of it at its essence as opposed to just not thinking its realistic.

With that said and to what i believe is YOUR point, just because you may not have the money today, doesn’t mean you don't do things to work toward that goal in the future. Things change over time. Miami in 1950 or even 1986, is not Miami of 2023 financially. U-Health of yesterday is not the same today financially. Every company should have strategic goals for the future that they may not be ready or able to take on today. That also goes for land and government. Land not available today could be in the future, a Coral Gables or Dade government that is adversarial today, may not be in the future.

In my opinion, do what you have control over in the interim. State a desire, come up with a plan to raise the money and proposals to offer to local governments that may entice and be beneficial for all parties to at least listen.
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If it's acquiring land in some location a considerable distance from campus (ie: old site of OB) then it would likely be an irresponsible use of $1B+.

The only thing that for sure makes building a stadium a viable option would be if it was on land adjacent to campus b/c the land is where the value lies.

Based upon your prior posts of posing the question of what happens if the Dolphins move? ... What happens if UM spends $2B for an off campus stadium and football turns into baseball (ie: shrinking relevance) or NCAAF morphs into a true minor league with only loose affiliations to universities?

There are no absolutes.

 
Empirical Cane said:
You mean the rest of you don't just land at the Black Lot Helipad?

Peasants.
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Canedude08 said:
Again, barring some Act of God making land near campus available, AND a group of donors making over a billion dollars available(Because that's how much it's going to cost to build a stadium worth a crap) there isn't a place for UMiami to build to where it makes sense. Renting a stadium is FAR DIFFERENT than renting a house.

In a perfect world, we would all love for the 'Canes to have their own home, but some of us live in REALITY.
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See this is what makes me think you've never been to the campus and drove around Coral Gables. Because if you did you would realize that it would literally take 3 to 4 hours waiting in traffic just to get to the stadium. Getting out of the game would be even worse.
 
canecrazy23 said:
See this is what makes me think you've never been to the campus and drove around Coral Gables. Because if you did you would realize that it would literally take 3 to 4 hours waiting in traffic just to get to the stadium. Getting out of the game would be even worse.
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he knows that. hes just saying there isnt any real land available close to campus that is a realistic site which is what the out of staters dont get but they know miami more than others I guess.

they. keep arguing that ownership matters. no one has said the opposite.

we all agree a stadium that we own is very much valuable.

were just saying it isnt realistic which they dont get seem to get. they just rehash the same stuff over and over until people who are from here know it isnt realistic.

if everyone is cool w staying near HRS or further north, then were in. otherwise, it isnt realistic to get anything really near campus or even in central miami dade.
 
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hoops156 said:
he knows that. hes just saying there isnt any real land available close to campus that is a realistic site which is what the out of staters dont get but they know miami more than others I guess.

they. keep arguing that ownership matters. no one has said the opposite.

we all agree a stadium that we own is very much valuable.

were just saying it isnt realistic which they dont get seem to get. they just rehash the same stuff over and over until people who are from here know it isnt realistic.

if everyone is cool w staying near HRS or further north, then were in. otherwise, it isnt realistic to get anything really near campus or even in central miami dade.
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That's interesting considering we have never owned our own stadium and we've won 5 NC's(6 if you count the one stolen). 🤷‍♂️


Fun fact the OB was originally named Burdine Stadium after the the late Roddy Burdine.
 
Tru C said:
And thats fine but lets be honest, there are folks, including in this thread, that DON’T see the value in ownership in regards to this issue.

You are saying (I believe) that if Miami CAN raise the money and find the land, then its a no brainer? If that is your only contention then I have no beef with you. But i believe one poster even states that even if Miami could raise the money and or acquire the land, it would still be an irresponsible investment because that money
should be used toward other things, like NIL. Huge difference in what it sounds like you are saying as opposed to being against the idea of it at its essence as opposed to just not thinking its realistic.

With that said and to what i believe is YOUR point, just because you may not have the money today, doesn’t mean you don't do things to work toward that goal in the future. Things change over time. Miami in 1950 or even 1986, is not Miami of 2023 financially. U-Health of yesterday is not the same today financially. Every company should have strategic goals for the future that they may not be ready or able to take on today. That also goes for land and government. Land not available today could be in the future, a Coral Gables or Dade government that is adversarial today, may not be in the future.

In my opinion, do what you have control over in the interim. State a desire, come up with a plan to raise the money and proposals to offer to local governments that may entice and be beneficial for all parties to at least listen.
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You mention UM being different financially in 2023 than in 1950 and 1986. Are you aware of the Miami Dade population differences, land use density and land availability differences that are in play? 1950 Miami Dade population was 495,000; 1986 it had grown to 1.6 million and as of 2022 was up to 2.7 million. A residential building lot in Coral Gables (aka as buying an older small home and tearing it down) is $1 million dollars for a 10,000 SFT lot if you can find it. There hasn’t been “vacant land” since the cow pastures were developed in what is now the City of Doral - back in the late 1990’s. Add to that the spike in Miami Dade property values in the past two years and you have a situation in which assembling large parcels of land ( 50 acres and over) becomes an incredibly challenging task that would most likely involve purchasing a combination of commercial and residential properties at enormous cost. Are there other approaches? Say the conference realignment DOES take place. UM is either Big or SEC. Could UM structure a take over of the FIU property - invest $500 million to develop THAT as UM stadium - with FiU playing their home games there ( with orange and green seats) on Thursdays? If TP is not an available site what other sites in the MD County boundaries exist?
 
There have been like 15,000 posts across various threads about a new stadium, and I am still waiting to see one that mentions that bank or private financing would be a major component of how it's paid for, serviced by the additional revenue having our own stadium would generate ($10M+), as well as the massive influx of annual revenue from moving to the B1G or SEC.

Just to keep it simple and use retail and not commercial or asset-backed terms, a $500,000,000 loan at 4% @ 30 years would only require less than a $2.4M monthly loan payment, or about $29M a year. Which would only be a fraction of the additional revenue we would generate in the future by having our own stadium and being in a top 2 conference. The revenue we would get from moving to the B1G or SEC would generate an additional $50M-$60M annually ALONE!

Now consider that a significant part of the stadium costs would be covered by donations, naming rights for the stadium down to every urinal (I'm naming mine Renegade), you name it, and we would have major budget to work with.

It's not the financial impossibility people keep claiming it is. Penn State is about to spend $700M on stadium RENOVATIONS, fully funded by the AD. The challenge for UM, is of course, which has been discussed ad nauseam, finding a location. Stay focused on that.
 
Cryptical Envelopment said:
There have been like 15,000 posts across various threads about a new stadium, and I am still waiting to see one that mentions that bank or private financing would be a major component of how it's paid for, serviced by the additional revenue having our own stadium would generate ($10M+), as well as the massive influx of annual revenue from moving to the B1G or SEC.

Just to keep it simple and use retail and not commercial or asset-backed terms, a $500,000,000 loan at 4% @ 30 years would only require less than a $2.4M monthly loan payment, or about $29M a year. Which would only be a fraction of the additional revenue we would generate in the future by having our own stadium and being in a top 2 conference. The revenue we would get from moving to the B1G or SEC would generate an additional $50M-$60M annually ALONE!

Now consider that a significant part of the stadium costs would be covered by donations, naming rights for the stadium down to every urinal (I'm naming mine Renegade), you name it, and we would have major budget to work with.

It's not the financial impossibility people keep claiming it is. Penn State is about to spend $700M on stadium RENOVATIONS, fully funded by the AD. The challenge for UM, is of course, which has been discussed ad nauseam, finding a location. Stay focused on that.
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Agree 1000%. The $500 Million or even $750 million or even $1 Billion for BUILDING a stadium isn't an issue. If THAT were the only concern ground would have been broken already. Right now the ONLY place that you can readily purchase land ... vacant land that doesn't have shopping centers, apartment buildings or single family homes on it, is Homestead. 25 miles south.
 
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Cryptical Envelopment said:
There have been like 15,000 posts across various threads about a new stadium, and I am still waiting to see one that mentions that bank or private financing would be a major component of how it's paid for, serviced by the additional revenue having our own stadium would generate ($10M+), as well as the massive influx of annual revenue from moving to the B1G or SEC.

Just to keep it simple and use retail and not commercial or asset-backed terms, a $500,000,000 loan at 4% @ 30 years would only require less than a $2.4M monthly loan payment, or about $29M a year. Which would only be a fraction of the additional revenue we would generate in the future by having our own stadium and being in a top 2 conference. The revenue we would get from moving to the B1G or SEC would generate an additional $50M-$60M annually ALONE!

Now consider that a significant part of the stadium costs would be covered by donations, naming rights for the stadium down to every urinal (I'm naming mine Renegade), you name it, and we would have major budget to work with.

It's not the financial impossibility people keep claiming it is. Penn State is about to spend $700M on stadium RENOVATIONS, fully funded by the AD. The challenge for UM, is of course, which has been discussed ad nauseam, finding a location. Stay focused on that.
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Joining the SEC/B10 is not dependent upon a stadium and any additional revenues from that potential move would be plowed back into the sports programs (including adding more sports like softball and women's lacrosse).

The reality is that the University should be buying all of the properties that come on the market surrounding the campus. These will most likely be single family homes which the university can turn into graduate student/professor housing and rent out to cover the carry costs. Over a LONG period of time the campus could then be expanded to MAYBE one day include an on campus stadium.

Campus.jpg
 
Rickd said:
Agree 1000%. The $500 Million or even $750 million or even $1 Billion for BUILDING a stadium isn't an issue. If THAT were the only concern ground would have been broken already. Right now the ONLY place that you can readily purchase land ... vacant land that doesn't have shopping centers, apartment buildings or single family homes on it, is Homestead. 25 miles south.
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Northwestern is building a new 35k seat stadium at a cost of $800M.

The major differences is that they owned the land already and just knocked down the old stadium, have an endowment 15x the size of Miami's, have the extra $30M a year vs the ACC in conference money, and had a cornerstone gift of $480M by one family for the project. Miami has none of those.

It is a HUGE undertaking to spend $2B+ to build a stadium for 6 home games a year. The only way it makes sense is on campus so that if 30 years from now football isn't what it is today the University has the land to expand the campus.

Owning a stadium in Hialeah only solves the "ownership" part of the equation. It's not some tsumani of additional money like some think it is.
 
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Beyond Tropical Park, there does not appear to be a place to build near campus. With that said, the old OB sits on about 17 acres?

Hardrock sits on approximately 160 acres?

Thats a big difference. So my next question is, how many acres minimum do you need?

And as to my point about how things change in the future, many analysts believe in just 10 years many Malls will be a thing of the past, permanently closing.

https://www.businessinsider.com/american-mall-decline-150-left-10-years-how-many-2022-10

What if Dadeland mall or a substantial portion of it closes in 10 years? I think that is approximately 71 acres. Again, a big difference from the 17 acres the old OB sits on.

I have NO IDEA clearly but i been a lot of places in my 45 years of life. I have seen neighborhoods change MASSIVELY over relatively little time and am always amazed at places that are built or torn down that i never imagined could be.
 
canecrazy23 said:
See this is what makes me think you've never been to the campus and drove around Coral Gables. Because if you did you would realize that it would literally take 3 to 4 hours waiting in traffic just to get to the stadium. Getting out of the game would be even worse.
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Yep I got my BS/BA, MBA and JD by correspondence courses. The point I was making was that the two biggest obstacles(Cost and a place to actually build the stadium) are not going away, we haven’t even gotten into traffic concerns.
 
Whenever the new stadium is built, I will be one of the first persons to buy season tickets should I live that long. Until then, I will sit on my back porch and watch the grass grow.

I don't play the stock market, but as long as we are playing the "if" game here is another proposal. If building a new stadium had a listing on the Dow, how many shares would you buy? And how long would you hold on to them? Especially after not seeing any viable movement in actually building a new stadium?
 
Canedude08 said:
Yep I got my BS/BA, MBA and JD by correspondence courses. The point I was making was that the two biggest obstacles(Cost and a place to actually build the stadium) are not going away, we haven’t even gotten into traffic concerns.
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That’s just it. We could have all the money in the world and logistically it wouldn’t work. There’s just not enough roads and not enough room to make it feasible.
 
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