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Mark Richt vs Nick Saban Games

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This isn't quite accurate. The 05 SECCG was in Miles's first season. Also we played LSU twice in '03, a close 7 point loss in baton rouge in the regular season and a beatdown loss in the SECCG.
 
WG_Dawg said:
This isn't quite accurate. The 05 SECCG was in Miles's first season. Also we played LSU twice in '03, a close 7 point loss in baton rouge in the regular season and a beatdown loss in the SECCG.
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Thanks for the correction.
 
Richt was also 1-5 vs. Urban Meyer.

When Richt did beat Saban in 2007, it was Saban's first year at Alabama, and they were 7-6 that year. Then Saban turns around and smacks him in 2008.

My fear about Richt is that he's just a good coach, and a nice guy. He's definitely more Tony Dungy than Bill Belicheck. Not that a nice guy can't win, but Richt doesn't have that ******* gene that Saban and Meyer and a lot of other coaches have that help them be so successful.

For example - watch his halftime interview of the 2008 game at the 1:04 mark. They're #3 in the country and losing by 31 going into the half, and he gives a very polite, mildly annoyed interview. You'd expect him to be more fired up - but that's just not who he is, and I think it translates to his to his teams coming out flat in big games.
 
bshaw28 said:
Richt was also 1-5 vs. Urban Meyer.

When Richt did beat Saban in 2007, it was Saban's first year at Alabama, and they were 7-6 that year. Then Saban turns around and smacks him in 2008.

My fear about Richt is that he's just a good coach, and a nice guy. He's definitely more Tony Dungy than Bill Belicheck. Not that a nice guy can't win, but Richt doesn't have that ******* gene that Saban and Meyer and a lot of other coaches have that help them be so successful.

For example - watch his halftime interview of the 2008 game at the 1:04 mark. They're #3 in the country and losing by 31 going into the half, and he gives a very polite, mildly annoyed interview. You'd expect him to be more fired up - but that's just not who he is, and I think it translates to his to his teams coming out flat in big games.
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Saban and Meyer are also 2 of the best coaches in America the last decade. There really isn't much shame in losing to better teams. If you want to elaborate on his series vs Meyer we can:

05- we were without DJ Shockley (SEC POY in 05) and had to play a guy that should never be above 3rd string. Lost by 4.
06- we lost 4 games and they won the national title. Still, with a True FR QB, we lost by 7 where the score difference came on a fumble return for a TD
07- we won by 2 TDs
08- this is the only matchup that pit 2 very good teams against each other.We got whooped, and UF won the national title.
09- we lost 5 games, they would have won the national title had they not faced national champ bama in the SECCG
10- both teams sucked adn we lost in overtime

Our record vs meyer was bad, but we only played them once with evenly matched teams IMO.

As for the record vs saban:

03- lost to the national champs by 7 on the road. Game was tied with 2 minutes left
03- lost to the national champs pretty bad in the SECCG
04- beat the dog **** out of saban in athens
07- beat them in OT in tuscaloosa
08- lost by 11 to a team that would start 12-0
12- lost by 4 on the game's final play in the SECCG to the national champs
15- lost badly to the national champs


Again, it's easy to say "Richt had a crappy record vs meyer and saban", without actually realizing what that means. Of Richt's 10 losses to saban and meyer, SIX of them were to teams that won the national title. TWO more were losses to teams that went undefeated in the regular season.

So, his record against the elite of the elite in america doesn't really bother me when you look at it like that.
 
It's like I said a couple days ago. Jimmy Johnson had a bad record against Nebraska and OU while he was at OSU, 0-10, but it didn't make him a bad coach, or a bad fit at UM. Sometimes a change of location and circumstances is best for a coach. No offence to Georgia, but Richt has access to the best talent in America in his own back yard now. This is an advantage a real coach like Richt can and will use. Golden couldn't, because the local talent didn't want to play for him, for good reasons. Shannon couldn't, because the local talent saw him losing and steered clear, outside of his first recruiting class. Locals will buy in to Mark Richt like they haven't a Miami head coach in many, many years. This is a match made in heaven for UM.
WG_Dawg said:
bshaw28 said:
Richt was also 1-5 vs. Urban Meyer.

When Richt did beat Saban in 2007, it was Saban's first year at Alabama, and they were 7-6 that year. Then Saban turns around and smacks him in 2008.

My fear about Richt is that he's just a good coach, and a nice guy. He's definitely more Tony Dungy than Bill Belicheck. Not that a nice guy can't win, but Richt doesn't have that ******* gene that Saban and Meyer and a lot of other coaches have that help them be so successful.

For example - watch his halftime interview of the 2008 game at the 1:04 mark. They're #3 in the country and losing by 31 going into the half, and he gives a very polite, mildly annoyed interview. You'd expect him to be more fired up - but that's just not who he is, and I think it translates to his to his teams coming out flat in big games.
Click to expand...

Saban and Meyer are also 2 of the best coaches in America the last decade. There really isn't much shame in losing to better teams. If you want to elaborate on his series vs Meyer we can:

05- we were without DJ Shockley (SEC POY in 05) and had to play a guy that should never be above 3rd string. Lost by 4.
06- we lost 4 games and they won the national title. Still, with a True FR QB, we lost by 7 where the score difference came on a fumble return for a TD
07- we won by 2 TDs
08- this is the only matchup that pit 2 very good teams against each other.We got whooped, and UF won the national title.
09- we lost 5 games, they would have won the national title had they not faced national champ bama in the SECCG
10- both teams sucked adn we lost in overtime

Our record vs meyer was bad, but we only played them once with evenly matched teams IMO.

As for the record vs saban:

03- lost to the national champs by 7 on the road. Game was tied with 2 minutes left
03- lost to the national champs pretty bad in the SECCG
04- beat the dog **** out of saban in athens
07- beat them in OT in tuscaloosa
08- lost by 11 to a team that would start 12-0
12- lost by 4 on the game's final play in the SECCG to the national champs
15- lost badly to the national champs


Again, it's easy to say "Richt had a crappy record vs meyer and saban", without actually realizing what that means. Of Richt's 10 losses to saban and meyer, SIX of them were to teams that won the national title. TWO more were losses to teams that went undefeated in the regular season.

So, his record against the elite of the elite in america doesn't really bother me when you look at it like that.
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Richt will run his type of offense at Miami. I think that's a big difference. When he was at FSU he wasnt getting held to 13-20 points a game
 
WG_Dawg said:
bshaw28 said:
Richt was also 1-5 vs. Urban Meyer.

When Richt did beat Saban in 2007, it was Saban's first year at Alabama, and they were 7-6 that year. Then Saban turns around and smacks him in 2008.

My fear about Richt is that he's just a good coach, and a nice guy. He's definitely more Tony Dungy than Bill Belicheck. Not that a nice guy can't win, but Richt doesn't have that ******* gene that Saban and Meyer and a lot of other coaches have that help them be so successful.

For example - watch his halftime interview of the 2008 game at the 1:04 mark. They're #3 in the country and losing by 31 going into the half, and he gives a very polite, mildly annoyed interview. You'd expect him to be more fired up - but that's just not who he is, and I think it translates to his to his teams coming out flat in big games.
Click to expand...

Saban and Meyer are also 2 of the best coaches in America the last decade. There really isn't much shame in losing to better teams. If you want to elaborate on his series vs Meyer we can:

Before we get that far, let's look at what happened before Meyer. Richt was 1-3 vs. Florida and was 0-2 vs. Ron Zook.

01 - Georgia ranked #15, Florida #6. GA lost 24-10.
02 - Georgia ranked #5, Florida unranked. GA lost 20-13.
03 - Georgia ranked #4, Florida #23. GA lost 16-13.
04 - Georgia ranked #10, Florida unranked. GA won 31-24. Zook had been fired a week before this game, so Richt never beat Zook.

The story isn't so much Richt's record vs. Meyer, but his record vs. Florida. You could see a pattern of coming out flat in big games before Meyer even got there.

05- we were without DJ Shockley (SEC POY in 05) and had to play a guy that should never be above 3rd string. Lost by 4.
Georgia ranked #5, Florida unranked. GA lost 14-10. Not having Shockley hurt I'm sure, but you're #5 and put up 10 on an unranked team? Richt failed to score 14 points in 4 of his first 5 games vs. Florida
06- we lost 4 games and they won the national title. Still, with a True FR QB, we lost by 7 where the score difference came on a fumble return for a TD
Georgia unranked, Florida #9. GA lost 21-14. The True FR QB was Stafford, the eventual #1 pick. That fumble return put Florida up 21-0. GA had 5 turnovers. Richt fell to 0-6 vs. Florida and his offense scores 14 or less in 5 of the 6 games. Richt gave up play calling before the end of the 2006 season
07- we won by 2 TDs
Georgia #20, Florida #9. GA wins 42-30. Game was 35-30 with 4 minutes to go. It was a close game.

08- this is the only matchup that pit 2 very good teams against each other.We got whooped, and UF won the national title.
Georgia #8, Florida #5. GA loses 49-10. GA started as the preseason #1 and got crushed by Alabama and Florida in 2008.
09- we lost 5 games, they would have won the national title had they not faced national champ bama in the SECCG
Georgia unranked, Florida #1. GA loses 41-17.
10- both teams sucked adn we lost in overtime
Georgia unranked, Florida unranked. GA loses 34-31

Our record vs meyer was bad, but we only played them once with evenly matched teams IMO.

In Richt's first 10 games vs Florida: GA went 2-8. GA scored 14 or less 6 times, 5 when Richt was calling plays. Georgia came into the game - Ranked in the Top 10 (5 times), ranked in the Top 5 (4 times), and as the higher ranked team (4 times). Georgia won 1 of those games.

As for the record vs saban:

03- lost to the national champs by 7 on the road. Game was tied with 2 minutes left
Georgia #7, LSU #11. GA lost 17-10.
03- lost to the national champs pretty bad in the SECCG
Georgia #5, LSU #3. GA lost 34-13. Georgia was just as good as LSU this year, lost once, and got blown out once, and put up a combined 23 points in 2 games.
04- beat the dog **** out of saban in athens
Georgia #3, LSU #13. GA won 45-16.
07- beat them in OT in tuscaloosa
Georgia #22, Alabama #16. GA won 26-23. As I said in the first post, Alabama was 7-6 in 2007. Of the 6 losses, only Georgia was by less than 7 points. Louisiana-Monroe beat Alabama by 7 this year.
And this was Richt's highest ranked team at Georgia, finishing the season at #2
08- lost by 11 to a team that would start 12-0
Georgia #3, Alabama #8. GA lost 41-30. You could say GA lost by 11....or as I said in the first post, you could say GA was losing at home 31-0 at halftime. The final score in no way reflects what an epic beatdown this was. This was the Stafford/Moreno/Green team that was preseason #1. They'd go on to lose to Florida by 39 a couple weeks later
12 - lost by 4 on the game's final play in the SECCG to the national champs
Georgia #3, Alabama #2. GA lost 32-28. This was close the whole way and could've gone either way
15- lost badly to the national champs
Georgia #8, Alabama #13. GA lost 38-10

Again, it's easy to say "Richt had a crappy record vs meyer and saban", without actually realizing what that means. Of Richt's 10 losses to saban and meyer, SIX of them were to teams that won the national title. TWO more were losses to teams that went undefeated in the regular season.

Of these 17 games vs. Florida or Saban - Richt was 4-13 Overall, went 2-9 when Georgia came in as a top 10 team, and went 2-6 when Georgia came in as the higher ranked team. Of these 2 wins, 1 was to an unranked 2003 Florida team that fired Ron Zook the week before the game.

Richt was 1-8 when the other team came in ranked in the Top 10.

Richt was calling plays in 9 of these games, 7 of which Georgia scored 14 or less. But Miami fans are excited about Richt calling plays again.

Overall, Richt went 5-10 vs. Florida. He won by more than 1 TD once. He lost by more than 2 TD's 5 times.

So, his record against the elite of the elite in america doesn't really bother me when you look at it like that.
It's all a matter of what perspective you use to look at it
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There's plenty of ways to argue either for or against Richt. Your post was Pro-Richt, so to play devil's advocate, I responded from an Anti-Richt perspective.

But I'm not Anti-Richt. I think he's light years better than Golden. I think he's a great recruiter, which is really all Miami needs. He'll have a much easier path in the ACC.

But back to my original point - I think he's just good, not great, as a coach. He's a nice guy and hard to dislike, but I don't see him getting fired up, or firing up his team the same way elite coaches do. It's not the losses in big games so much as the way he lost. There's a long history of his teams just coming out flat in big games, especially on offense, which is Richt's specialty.
 
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Richt and his staff are definitive upgrades over the previous 2 (and possibly even Coker's).

With that said, it still doesn't diminish the way his teams performed on the "big stage"...his record at UGA is sub-par from that perspective...and so was Belicheck's at Cleveland (and NE before Beldsoe's injury changed the course of the franchise) and Carroll's at NY and NE before he started rolling at USC ans Seattle.

Let's see if Miami can be a similar situation for Richt.

Go Canes!!
 
I think we already knew Richt wasn't as good of a coach as Saban. But nobody else in CFB is.

We are not asking Richt to be Saban. But he needs to be good. It frankly doesn't take a great coach to win at Miami. Just look at what Shnellenberger and Erickson did outside of Miami. Shnellenberger was below .500 at Lousiville and a mammoth disaster at OU. By the end of his career Schnellenberger was just like Larry Coker where nobody wanted to hire him except a school that didn't even have a football program. Erickson was a disaster at Arizona State and was fired there.
 
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WG_Dawg said:
bshaw28 said:
Richt was also 1-5 vs. Urban Meyer.

When Richt did beat Saban in 2007, it was Saban's first year at Alabama, and they were 7-6 that year. Then Saban turns around and smacks him in 2008.

My fear about Richt is that he's just a good coach, and a nice guy. He's definitely more Tony Dungy than Bill Belicheck. Not that a nice guy can't win, but Richt doesn't have that ******* gene that Saban and Meyer and a lot of other coaches have that help them be so successful.

For example - watch his halftime interview of the 2008 game at the 1:04 mark. They're #3 in the country and losing by 31 going into the half, and he gives a very polite, mildly annoyed interview. You'd expect him to be more fired up - but that's just not who he is, and I think it translates to his to his teams coming out flat in big games.
Click to expand...

Saban and Meyer are also 2 of the best coaches in America the last decade. There really isn't much shame in losing to better teams. If you want to elaborate on his series vs Meyer we can:

05- we were without DJ Shockley (SEC POY in 05) and had to play a guy that should never be above 3rd string. Lost by 4.
06- we lost 4 games and they won the national title. Still, with a True FR QB, we lost by 7 where the score difference came on a fumble return for a TD
07- we won by 2 TDs
08- this is the only matchup that pit 2 very good teams against each other.We got whooped, and UF won the national title.
09- we lost 5 games, they would have won the national title had they not faced national champ bama in the SECCG
10- both teams sucked adn we lost in overtime

Our record vs meyer was bad, but we only played them once with evenly matched teams IMO.

As for the record vs saban:

03- lost to the national champs by 7 on the road. Game was tied with 2 minutes left
03- lost to the national champs pretty bad in the SECCG
04- beat the dog **** out of saban in athens
07- beat them in OT in tuscaloosa
08- lost by 11 to a team that would start 12-0
12- lost by 4 on the game's final play in the SECCG to the national champs
15- lost badly to the national champs


Again, it's easy to say "Richt had a crappy record vs meyer and saban", without actually realizing what that means. Of Richt's 10 losses to saban and meyer, SIX of them were to teams that won the national title. TWO more were losses to teams that went undefeated in the regular season.

So, his record against the elite of the elite in america doesn't really bother me when you look at it like that.
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WG Dawg...going off thread here...but you seem a reasonable and knowledgeable poster...

What do you think of Miami's OL say vs UGA? Do you think any current Miami OL athlete would start at UGA today? FULL DISCLOSURE...there is a touch of a dust up on another thread...I respect your opinion...if you can share....
 
Richt will win the games he's supposed to win. So hitting ten wins in the ACC shouldn't be a problem. With our schedule and the coaches we face, I don't think Richt will have a problem.

The change of scenery will have a positive impact but the talent bump from UGA to Miami won't make the difference people think it would. There simply isn't as big of a talent gap between UGAs recruiting base and Miamis.

As for richt calling his own plays hopefully he goes back to what he did at FSU cause his first few years at UGA the offense seems to have not been that great. A UGA fan can correct me if I'm wrong. [MENTION=2867]WG_Dawg[/MENTION]
 
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I'd love to chime in but unfortunately I'm not familiar with MIami's roster so I can't really give a genuine answer.

I will say that over the last 15 years, despite Richt's very good/great recruiting, the one recruiting area he constantly struggled with was the OL. We rarely got any elite 5* prospects, and throughout the first 5-7ish years at UGA our OL seemed to have major issues with shoulder injuries. Maybe that was the OL coach's problem, I don't know. I can think of 3 years where we had legit OLs that were good enough to really compete for big things. 02 (recruited by donnan), 05, and 08. And the 08 line took a major blow with the loss of our starting LT in the preseason.

As far as "would any current Miami OL start at UGA", again I dont' know your roster so I have no clue.
 
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NVA CANE said:
Richt will win the games he's supposed to win. So hitting ten wins in the ACC shouldn't be a problem. With our schedule and the coaches we face, I don't think Richt will have a problem.

The change of scenery will have a positive impact but the talent bump from UGA to Miami won't make the difference people think it would. There simply isn't as big of a talent gap between UGAs recruiting base and Miamis.

As for richt calling his own plays hopefully he goes back to what he did at FSU cause his first few years at UGA the offense seems to have not been that great. A UGA fan can correct me if I'm wrong. [MENTION=2867]WG_Dawg[/MENTION]
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I hit on this yesterday. In 01 he brought his no huddle FSU offense, but it only lasted about 5 or 6 games before Fulmer complained to the league and we went almost strictly pro-style. And you're right, despite it being "his offense", we struggled more than we should have those early years. VanGorder's defense bailed us out for 4 years.

With that said, Richt will have a better QB this year than he had in 2001 (DGreene set the all time wins record, but in 01 he was a RSFr, so obviously kayaa is light years ahead of DG at that point in time) and will probably have more freedom to run the offense he wants without being tattled on.
 
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