@LuCane

[Cane01]

Quote Originally Posted by LuCane View Post
Maybe he has a different definition of elite. To me, an elite RB is basically a game changer who can win individual battles in the 3-4 critical games in a season where there's relatively equal talent on the field.

I think we have 3 of those guys on offense.
I think we have up to 7 of those guys on defense.


This got lost in another thread. Respect your football knowledge, interested in your thoughts on the D's potential this year.

Who are your potential 7 on D? I assume the 3 on O are Kaaya, Coley and Njoku.

Best guess at your up to 7 on D with elite potential (obviously not all will reach that level, more a judgement of talent level):

Muhammad, Willis, Grace, Elder, Thomas, McIntosh and Quarterman/Norton

 

[LuCane]

You got them mostly all.

In no order:

DE AQM, Thomas
DT Willis, McIntosh, Norton
LB Grace
DB Elder

That's the 7. I have 3 fringe guys who can get there this year:

Quarterman: too young, but really clean with his steps and playing in a nearly perfect system for his tools so will look spectacular at times

Moten: that's probably the surprise on the list, as I've seen him do NFL stuff inside others don't. First time you watch him spin off a guy going upfield and eat a QB, you'll probably wonder the same.

Jenkins: Sleepy as **** here in that I think he can win 1 on 1s and may end up with 6-7 INTs. Another guy who's looked far worse because of scheme and people may suddenly think he "turned on the light."

 

[brock]

You got them mostly all.

In no order:

DE AQM, Thomas
DT Willis, McIntosh, Norton
LB Grace
DB Elder

That's the 6. I have 3 fringe guys who can get there this year:

Quarterman: too young, but really clean with his steps and playing in a nearly perfect system for his tools so will look spectacular at times

Moten: that's probably the surprise on the list, as I've seen him do NFL stuff inside others don't. First time you watch him spin off a guy going upfield and eat a QB, you'll probably wonder the same.

Jenkins: Sleepy as **** here in that I think he can win 1 on 1s and may end up with 6-7 INTs. Another guy who's looked far worse because of scheme and people may suddenly think he "turned on the light."

Been saying this for a while but there were a lot of times were Rayshawn Jenkins played better than Deon bush who was a stud here. I think he is a baller

 

[LuCane]

Because this convo spills over from another thread, I'll post this here:

Being "elite" is a matter of definition.

To me, if you can win 1 on 1 battles against top competition, you're at that level. It probably means you'll be playing on Sundays.

Elite doesn't mean best player in the conference or nation, I think. That's an entirely separate level for guys like Cook and Watson. I think we only have 1 guy at that level.

 

[CanesAreAble]

I was a big Jenkins guy back in '12. I liked his size, fluidity, and playmaking instincts. I'm not surprised that he's looked good in practice. Hopefully he puts it all together for a monster senior campaign.

 

[sfcane2]

Amazing how far we've come on the dline. 3-4 elite DTs using Lu's analysis.

 

[Hurracanes]

Because this convo spills over from another thread, I'll post this here:

Being "elite" is a matter of definition.

To me, if you can win 1 on 1 battles against top competition, you're at that level. It probably means you'll be playing on Sundays.

Elite doesn't mean best player in the conference or nation, I think. That's an entirely separate level for guys like Cook and Watson. I think we only have 1 guy at that level.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have to ask, what do you see in our DT's that gives you this much optimism? I only ask because we haven't seen a DT making a plays (tackle for loss or sacks) consistently for so many years. I know this is a cliche here but did the scheme play that much of a role with our DT's?

 

[skyman]

Jenkins can do the centerfield stuff really well, if he can clean up his open field tackling he will take that next step

 

[LuCane]

Amazing how far we've come on the dline. 3-4 elite DTs using Lu's analysis.

My definition of "elite" would have, had he played in the proper system, likely also placed Chickillo as an elite college player. If you're a guy who can stick around and even start in the NFL, you're likely winning 1 on 1 battles in college against nearly anyone. That's unusual and I consider it elite.

Now, if you want to consider "elite" as just the super special guys who will also be stars in the NFL, I think it's then just a matter of definition. No big deal.

 

[sfcane2]

Amazing how far we've come on the dline. 3-4 elite DTs using Lu's analysis.

My definition of "elite" would have, had he played in the proper system, likely also placed Chickillo as an elite college player. If you're a guy who can stick around and even start in the NFL, you're likely winning 1 on 1 battles in college against nearly anyone. That's unusual and I consider it elite.



Now, if you want to consider "elite" as just the super special guys who will also be stars in the NFL, I think it's then just a matter of definition. No big deal.

To add some perspective how many elite guys do you think teams that made the playoffs the last few years have had on defense. Ohio State a few years ago is an outlier but on average are we close?

 

[LuCane]

Amazing how far we've come on the dline. 3-4 elite DTs using Lu's analysis.

My definition of "elite" would have, had he played in the proper system, likely also placed Chickillo as an elite college player. If you're a guy who can stick around and even start in the NFL, you're likely winning 1 on 1 battles in college against nearly anyone. That's unusual and I consider it elite.



Now, if you want to consider "elite" as just the super special guys who will also be stars in the NFL, I think it's then just a matter of definition. No big deal.

To add some perspective how many elite guys do you think teams that made the playoffs the last few years have had on defense. Ohio State a few years ago is an outlier but on average are we close?

I think we're closer now because of how optimistic I am about the DL. I don't know the exact players on other teams well enough, but how many of their guys have stuck in the NFL?

Here's another way to look at it: Rashawn Scott is getting a look in the NFL. He may hang around some practice squads. I don't consider him elite. He made some plays last year and won 1 on 1 battles (even against NFL guys vs FSU), but he wasn't on the level of the guys I'm labeling that way. So, in other words, I don't think we have elite RBs, I think we have more elite defenders than we expect, and I think we have superstar QB.

 

[imurcane]

Amazing how far we've come on the dline. 3-4 elite DTs using Lu's analysis.

My definition of "elite" would have, had he played in the proper system, likely also placed Chickillo as an elite college player. If you're a guy who can stick around and even start in the NFL, you're likely winning 1 on 1 battles in college against nearly anyone. That's unusual and I consider it elite.

Now, if you want to consider "elite" as just the super special guys who will also be stars in the NFL, I think it's then just a matter of definition. No big deal.

Interesting perspective. Do you remember the *** DE from Mizzou? I would say he was an elite player in the SEC, but obviously not in the NFL. Same for Tebow. Same for Kenny Dorsey. I think Sam Shields was an elite talent that was wasting away in the wasteland here. I wouldn't have known that though without the Packers.

I think we probably are aligned here on how we see elite.

 

[The Franchise]

You got them mostly all.

In no order:

DE AQM, Thomas
DT Willis, McIntosh, Norton
LB Grace
DB Elder

That's the 7. I have 3 fringe guys who can get there this year:

Quarterman: too young, but really clean with his steps and playing in a nearly perfect system for his tools so will look spectacular at times

Moten: that's probably the surprise on the list, as I've seen him do NFL stuff inside others don't. First time you watch him spin off a guy going upfield and eat a QB, you'll probably wonder the same.

Jenkins: Sleepy as **** here in that I think he can win 1 on 1s and may end up with 6-7 INTs. Another guy who's looked far worse because of scheme and people may suddenly think he "turned on the light."

Perfect list. And it doesn't even include guys like Joe Jax, Malek, Pinkney and McCloud, who haven't done it yet but will do it.

 

[Jeeperaf]

You got them mostly all.

In no order:

DE AQM, Thomas
DT Willis, McIntosh, Norton
LB Grace
DB Elder

That's the 7. I have 3 fringe guys who can get there this year:

Quarterman: too young, but really clean with his steps and playing in a nearly perfect system for his tools so will look spectacular at times

Moten: that's probably the surprise on the list, as I've seen him do NFL stuff inside others don't. First time you watch him spin off a guy going upfield and eat a QB, you'll probably wonder the same.

Jenkins: Sleepy as **** here in that I think he can win 1 on 1s and may end up with 6-7 INTs. Another guy who's looked far worse because of scheme and people may suddenly think he "turned on the light."

Of the players you mention above, who starts at a Bama, Clemson, or FSU?

I think its only Elder...not suggesting the others mentioned are sub-par...just not certain any of them would be very likely starters at those other programs.

When Canes players are automatic starters on any other team, good sign the squad is back...

Here's to Kool and the Gang reminding everyone what a Miami DL can do...

Go Canes.

 

[brock]

You got them mostly all.

In no order:

DE AQM, Thomas
DT Willis, McIntosh, Norton
LB Grace
DB Elder

That's the 7. I have 3 fringe guys who can get there this year:

Quarterman: too young, but really clean with his steps and playing in a nearly perfect system for his tools so will look spectacular at times

Moten: that's probably the surprise on the list, as I've seen him do NFL stuff inside others don't. First time you watch him spin off a guy going upfield and eat a QB, you'll probably wonder the same.

Jenkins: Sleepy as **** here in that I think he can win 1 on 1s and may end up with 6-7 INTs. Another guy who's looked far worse because of scheme and people may suddenly think he "turned on the light."

Of the players you mention above, who starts at a Bama, Clemson, or FSU?

I think its only Elder...not suggesting the others mentioned are sub-par...just not certain any of them would be very likely starters at those other programs.

When Canes players are automatic starters on any other team, good sign the squad is back...

Here's to Kool and the Gang reminding everyone what a Miami DL can do...

Go Canes.

None of fsus defensive players would start at bama either outside of Derwin James so you can go ahead and dead that sh*t

 

[brock]

You got them mostly all.

In no order:

DE AQM, Thomas
DT Willis, McIntosh, Norton
LB Grace
DB Elder

That's the 7. I have 3 fringe guys who can get there this year:

Quarterman: too young, but really clean with his steps and playing in a nearly perfect system for his tools so will look spectacular at times

Moten: that's probably the surprise on the list, as I've seen him do NFL stuff inside others don't. First time you watch him spin off a guy going upfield and eat a QB, you'll probably wonder the same.

Jenkins: Sleepy as **** here in that I think he can win 1 on 1s and may end up with 6-7 INTs. Another guy who's looked far worse because of scheme and people may suddenly think he "turned on the light."

Of the players you mention above, who starts at a Bama, Clemson, or FSU?

I think its only Elder...not suggesting the others mentioned are sub-par...just not certain any of them would be very likely starters at those other programs.

When Canes players are automatic starters on any other team, good sign the squad is back...

Here's to Kool and the Gang reminding everyone what a Miami DL can do...

Go Canes.

Muhammad, grace, Jenkins(safety spot opposite of James), g Willis , corn elder all would for sure start at Fsu on defense. Norton probably as well.

 

[LuCane]

You got them mostly all.

In no order:

DE AQM, Thomas
DT Willis, McIntosh, Norton
LB Grace
DB Elder

That's the 7. I have 3 fringe guys who can get there this year:

Quarterman: too young, but really clean with his steps and playing in a nearly perfect system for his tools so will look spectacular at times

Moten: that's probably the surprise on the list, as I've seen him do NFL stuff inside others don't. First time you watch him spin off a guy going upfield and eat a QB, you'll probably wonder the same.

Jenkins: Sleepy as **** here in that I think he can win 1 on 1s and may end up with 6-7 INTs. Another guy who's looked far worse because of scheme and people may suddenly think he "turned on the light."

Of the players you mention above, who starts at a Bama, Clemson, or FSU?

I think its only Elder...not suggesting the others mentioned are sub-par...just not certain any of them would be very likely starters at those other programs.

When Canes players are automatic starters on any other team, good sign the squad is back...

Here's to Kool and the Gang reminding everyone what a Miami DL can do...

Go Canes.

1 of the DEs, 1 of the DTs, Grace and Elder.

 

[Gatorhater]

You got them mostly all.

In no order:

DE AQM, Thomas
DT Willis, McIntosh, Norton
LB Grace
DB Elder

That's the 7. I have 3 fringe guys who can get there this year:

Quarterman: too young, but really clean with his steps and playing in a nearly perfect system for his tools so will look spectacular at times

Moten: that's probably the surprise on the list, as I've seen him do NFL stuff inside others don't. First time you watch him spin off a guy going upfield and eat a QB, you'll probably wonder the same.

Jenkins: Sleepy as **** here in that I think he can win 1 on 1s and may end up with 6-7 INTs. Another guy who's looked far worse because of scheme and people may suddenly think he "turned on the light."

Of the players you mention above, who starts at a Bama, Clemson, or FSU?

I think its only Elder...not suggesting the others mentioned are sub-par...just not certain any of them would be very likely starters at those other programs.

When Canes players are automatic starters on any other team, good sign the squad is back...

Here's to Kool and the Gang reminding everyone what a Miami DL can do...

Go Canes.

Our old defensive team were not made of players who were automatic players on other team. We pushed players forward to increase speed at the expense of size. They were great in our system and remade college football. Today, Bama is back to huge drugs infused cows. I look for players who could have played on OUR old teams not others today. We need to turn the world upside down again.

 

[252cane]

You got them mostly all.

In no order:

DE AQM, Thomas
DT Willis, McIntosh, Norton
LB Grace
DB Elder

That's the 7. I have 3 fringe guys who can get there this year:

Quarterman: too young, but really clean with his steps and playing in a nearly perfect system for his tools so will look spectacular at times

Moten: that's probably the surprise on the list, as I've seen him do NFL stuff inside others don't. First time you watch him spin off a guy going upfield and eat a QB, you'll probably wonder the same.

Jenkins: Sleepy as **** here in that I think he can win 1 on 1s and may end up with 6-7 INTs. Another guy who's looked far worse because of scheme and people may suddenly think he "turned on the light."

Of the players you mention above, who starts at a Bama, Clemson, or FSU?

I think its only Elder...not suggesting the others mentioned are sub-par...just not certain any of them would be very likely starters at those other programs.

When Canes players are automatic starters on any other team, good sign the squad is back...

Here's to Kool and the Gang reminding everyone what a Miami DL can do...

Go Canes.

1 of the DEs, 1 of the DTs, Grace and Elder.

Grace wouldn't start at bama. They are loaded at LB. Grace might get in on nickel packages. Elder wouldnt start over humphrey and fitzpatrick. Elder would likely be the nickel.

 

[LuCane]

You got them mostly all.

In no order:

DE AQM, Thomas
DT Willis, McIntosh, Norton
LB Grace
DB Elder

That's the 7. I have 3 fringe guys who can get there this year:

Quarterman: too young, but really clean with his steps and playing in a nearly perfect system for his tools so will look spectacular at times

Moten: that's probably the surprise on the list, as I've seen him do NFL stuff inside others don't. First time you watch him spin off a guy going upfield and eat a QB, you'll probably wonder the same.

Jenkins: Sleepy as **** here in that I think he can win 1 on 1s and may end up with 6-7 INTs. Another guy who's looked far worse because of scheme and people may suddenly think he "turned on the light."

Of the players you mention above, who starts at a Bama, Clemson, or FSU?

I think its only Elder...not suggesting the others mentioned are sub-par...just not certain any of them would be very likely starters at those other programs.

When Canes players are automatic starters on any other team, good sign the squad is back...

Here's to Kool and the Gang reminding everyone what a Miami DL can do...

Go Canes.

1 of the DEs, 1 of the DTs, Grace and Elder.

Grace wouldn't start at bama. They are loaded at LB. Grace might get in on nickel packages. Elder wouldnt start over humphrey and fitzpatrick. Elder would likely be the nickel.

He mentioned 3 teams and used "or."