Lowered Expectations...

[OrdunaDrive]

Coker got a raise in his later years, to where he was making significantly more than that.

But your bigger point is more interesting. Why is B+ good enough? Alabama has A+ coaching, and they have far more talent than we do.

If we were competing for championships (we're not), then that would be the bar.

Coker got another raise in 2005 to bring his salary up to $2 mil/year. That inflation adjusted total would still earn him just slightly less (probably $2.8 million) than Diaz earns now. At that time, coaching salaries had not quite ballooned like they have today, so his $2 million deal was Top 10 in CFB, but he'd won a championship, been to another, and won multiple major bowl games. Diaz is just starting, and therefore doesn't remotely warrant a Top 10 salary. The more far more relevant comparison points are his first 2 deals, which are more analogous with Diaz's current situation, and clearly show that Miami values the coaching position as much or more than they did when they were on top of the world. My original point still stands.

As for the other concept, I consider B+ coaching (and I'm grading on a bell curve here, so a B+ warrants approximately 80th percentile coaching quality) sufficient for 3 reasons:

1) It is my opinion (and maybe I'm being generous) that we've received only occasional brushes with B+ coaching in the last 20 years. Shannon (great early classes that got worse, 0 originality or energy) and Golden (tough row to hoe, poor manager of talent) lived closer to 50% or beneath during their tenures. Richt started at about B+ level, but the Rosier QB conundrum, complicated by original sin of hiring his unqualified son, really threw him into a tailspin. Last year was obviously a **** show that indicated more **** show was to come. Given that Richt got Miami to perform at a level at least commensurate with their recruiting quality during his B+ time, a coach that can maintain that level would live at the 10 win mark, with occasional bursts above and below that level.

2) Recruiting is driven chiefly by winning. There are a few outliers that coach up lesser talents (TCU, VT) and others that steal quality recruits and ruin their careers thanks to big budgets and "big budgets" (Tennesse), but these exceptions prove the rule for the rest. You win on game day, you can win on signing day. For the last 15 years, Miami has recruited at about #15 in the country according to 247. During the same period, we've only won 7 or 8 games a year on average. If a B+ coaching effort begets production commensurate with recruit quality, then a B+ coaching effort gives Miami 10 wins a year. I would be willing to bet that a Miami team winning 10 games every year can increase their recruiting prowess above the #15 level in the top 10/top 5 level. Then, if you have a Top 5 talented team coached by a B+ coach, you've got a team that will get to the playoff nearly every year, a la Bama/Oklahoma/OSU/Clemson.

3) More of a philosophical point, but I don't believe that A+ coaching is a quality anyone alive can deliver year after year. The level at which the successful Power 5 coaches are competing at is unimaginable, and it only takes a few small mistakes in a year to drop your performance relative to your peers. Maybe Alabama is producing A level coaching each year, but I seriously doubt that. I absolutely respect Saban's ability, but I think it's reckless to assume his extreme player quality doesn't mask several mistakes.

 

[OrdunaDrive]

Which is fine with our delusional administration. They pretend we’re the Harvard of the South when we’re actually a chickencrap mediocre commuter school that thinks it can charge Ivy League prices for a Toledo, Houston or Bridgeport style education. No wonder no one wants to come to Miami.

That is hilariously inaccurate. As a relatively recent UM alum that has also taken a mix of classes at NC State and UNC, I can assure you that UM is a whole lot more like the latter (Top 25 academic institution) than the former (a still very respectable Top 100 institution). Professors are more demanding. Students (although they may not recognize it at the time) are more competitive. UM doesn't consistently rank in the Top 50 for nothing.

 

[ddann]

So everything I said about the 80's was true.

Was I there? No. Didn't need to be. It doesn't take a genius to realize that times were very different.

I don't have a problem with anyone setting forth the premise that Miami will never be what it once was as a football program. That is the truth until proven otherwise.

On the other hand, I do have a problem with someone who wasn't there talking tough like he knows everything about everything because everyone knows, "Miami was the cocaine capital of the world in the 80's and therefore...blah, blah, blah"

OP has already admitted he wasn't there. His credibility is shot.

 

[RedPill Stepdad]

Princeton #1
Stanford #7
Duke #8
ND # 18
UCLA #19
USC # 22
UNC #30
The Turds #35
UGA #45
drum roll,, Miami #53

Academic ratings from US News & World report.

Listed schools with FB programs.
Miami is in the top 5 in costs, about 51,000/year.

Sad but true..

Lol that is a ranking of best University's OVERALL, not specific to academics. We actually rank 79th in academics, and considering how many University's are in America, I'd say that's elite.

 

[3GC]

Lol that is a ranking of best University's OVERALL, not specific to academics. We actually rank 79th in academics, and considering how many University's are in America, I'd say that's elite.

Specific to academics only,,
Disciplines, as engineering, medicine, law, etc were averaged, & have separate rankings.
The 79th ranking was from a different service, yet rated A+ for ambiance & learning environment. Both rankings from about 340 schools.
What I'm trying to say, is academics is not an excuse for our crappy athletic teams.
I have a degree in Economics & an MBA in finance from Miami.
Go look up the prices for tuition from the higher ranked Institutions. Poor value for the money expended.
Stanford was considered the best value University.
Been doing this research for a girl I'm dating,, has a college aged daughter..

 

[RedPill Stepdad]

Specific to academics only,,
Disciplines, as engineering, medicine, law, etc were averaged, & have separate rankings.
The 79th ranking was from a different service, yet rated A+ for ambiance & learning environment. Both rankings from about 340 schools.
What I'm trying to say, is academics is not an excuse for our crappy athletic teams.
I have a degree in Economics & an MBA in finance from Miami.
Go look up the prices for tuition from the higher ranked Institutions. Poor value for the money expended.
Stanford was considered the best value University.
Been doing this research for a girl I'm dating,, has a college aged daughter..

I agree, academics is not an excuse for our poor football program. That's not the point I was making. I'm saying the big wigs at the University favor academics over athletics. It's hard to imagine, and maybe u can enlighten me on this, that the school would benefit more financially from academics than athletics if our football program was competing for national titles.the revenue generated from a successful football program has to be better than any other revenue.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Even losing hair is a myth too if you’re predisposed to the gene it just accelerated that gene

Yup alot of those things people say about juice are just straight up myths.

 

[3GC]

I agree, academics is not an excuse for our poor football program. That's not the point I was making. I'm saying the big wigs at the University favor academics over athletics. It's hard to imagine, and maybe u can enlighten me on this, that the school would benefit more financially from academics than athletics if our football program was competing for national titles.the revenue generated from a successful football program has to be better than any other revenue.

Got degrees in 1980 & 1983, money flowed in after the first NC.
I'm not an insider, & incredulous at some of the moves Miami has made.
I read an expose about Jax Memorial & the UM medical school.
Contentious relationship now, losing money, internal theft, etc.
I wish i could remember the the title of the article, about 3 years ago.
My old school??????? IDK??..

 

[BigJoeGrizzly]

Word of advice- don't listen to Billy Cohen's opinions about actual football. He makes cute little movies but his actual knowledge about the game is only a hair above Julio Frenk's.

I refuse to listen to anyone in this town this includes the media. They have been horribly wrong and pandered to Clappy, Randy, Folden and Rick while also spinning the narratives. This town is hardly ever right and has a bad track record when it comes to coaching hires college and pro.

 

[101bat]

Lol we were a win against Pittsburgh from being in the playoff 2 yrs ago....but ok

 

[dirtyred786]

College football is a big money sport now, and we arent a big money school. With the right staff we can probably compete like say UCF right now. But that's our ceiling. We really need to stop wasting time with these 5 stars because they want money. If we get 4 and 3 stars and develop them it can work. The problem is as long as Blake James is running the show incompetent decisions (like 8 hour national coaching searches) will be the norm

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

That is hilariously inaccurate. As a relatively recent UM alum that has also taken a mix of classes at NC State and UNC, I can assure you that UM is a whole lot more like the latter (Top 25 academic institution) than the former (a still very respectable Top 100 institution). Professors are more demanding. Students (although they may not recognize it at the time) are more competitive. UM doesn't consistently rank in the Top 50 for nothing.

@holycane is an idiot calling UM a commuter school. FIU is a commuter school. USF is a commuter school.

He has zero clue and is proving to be a total ignoramus. Doubt he even has his GDE.

 

[mirednmediocrity2]

@holycane is an idiot calling UM a commuter school. FIU is a commuter school. USF is a commuter school.

He has zero clue and is proving to be a total ignoramus. Doubt he even has his GDE.

Nope. Have a degree from UM. Was there two years. My experience at a small college the prior 2 years and at my grad school (University of Maryland) afterwards is that BOTH were better than Miami, and some consider Maryland a commuter school for DC and Baltimore. Totally based on my experience, wise guy.

 

[gabednconfused]

I don’t see the commitment to winning from this admin.

It’s telling that Barry Jackson at the Herald wrote an article a few days ago explaining why Miami will never be “back.”

We know that the Herald prints whatever UM wants. It’s almost as if our admin have thrown in the towel, and they are trying to lower fan expectations.

Be happy if we can compete for the coastal. That’s what this program is, and that’s what this program will be for the foreseeable future.

We are an above-average Coastal team, and that’s how it will stay until we get a new BOT, president, athletic director, etc.

The evidence is clear. Miami pays peanuts for coaches and support staff.

We hired a first time head coach, a DC from Louisiana Tech, and a S&C coach with two years of experience at Temple.

Some may want to put a positive spin on it, but to me, it looks like Miami is bargain-hunting as usual.

We won’t play the bag game. We won’t pay for the best coaches. We won’t pay fir the best support staff.

Alabama and Clemson are so far ahead of us right now, it’s laughably sad. These are professional organizations with professional recruiting staffs, top-of-the-line coaches and facilities, elite S&C and nutrition staff, etc.

Miami is like the flea market, mom and pop version of this.

We’ll never be a major player in college football as long as the current band of dopes are in charge.

So if you want to be a fan, be a fan. But lower your expectations. This program is not what it was in the past, and it’s not doing what it would need to do to move in that direction.

Be happy with coastal championships every few years. That’s Miami.

LOL just shut the f*ck up please.

Richt was a $4m a year coach with over 100 wins in the SEC. Wasn't a bargain and was as well regarded as any vet coach hire (at the time).

The issues Miami is having are stemming from the post-Nevin compliance era. Nevin was our bag man, and he shelled out a lot of loot.

Bags get the players-> players play, coaches coach, team wins. No bags, no good players besides those who are heart-set on signing with Miami.

They are paying competitive salaries to win the ACC or at least get to the championship. When we are consistently at that level I am positive you will see further investment.

But in closing just STFU, same **** said since the end of the 90s.

 

[gabednconfused]

Could have fooled me. Half of the students I knew were local kids. Maybe it’s changed since I went there.
Just reported you for a personal attack. No one talks to me like that, especially someone who is just a punk kid that’s full of himself and hides behind a keyboard smartmouthing anyone who disagrees with him.. Have seen you in action like this with other posters just like you’re going after me now.

Absolutely not a commuter school. They do pick quite a few from south FL, and myself and many others are home-grown alumni. The bulk of the student body comes from the North East, NY, Mass, eastern PA, and quite a few from the west coast as well.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Going for excellence in basketball is much more commensurate with the resources and demographics of a small, private school like Miami. Only a dozen or so scholarships needed, on-campus arena exists already, we're already in a predominantly basketball league, etc.

De-emphasizing football would easily allow for more than is needed to have a top basketball program. A NC in football has become a bridge too far.

Basketball is no chance. It was hilarious on this site a couple of years ago when a poll asked which Canes team would win the next national championship, and posters were taking basketball based on Larranaga the best coach.

Talk about whiffing the big picture completely. With only 5 players on the court you need ultra elite talent. The requirement at each scholarship is sky high. No margin for error. There is a vast difference between being able to defeat Duke or North Carolina based on desire and effort and sound coaching in February, and being talented enough to string together six consecutive tourney victories in March and early April. Miami is not in a recruiting area that enables elite talent or ever figures to enable elite talent. I attend a high school basketball game in Dade County and it is difficult not to laugh. Our arena is nice but not top notch. Heck, they don't even have sufficient parking. The NCAA will not allow the seating on the upper east side of the arena to be used, due to that lack of parking. Then when we built the medical building that stripped away even more of the available parking. The Ponce garage is now levels 3-5 for basketball parking when previously it was 2-5.

The one-year rule makes it even less likely. Miami had Bruce Brown and Lonnie Walker briefly, when everything was going well for the program. Even with those guys we weren't a serious contender. Now imagine a requirement to stack the roster with that type of talent every year, because last year's guys will be departing already.

I named football in that poll. Baseball also has significantly greater likelihood than basketball. Slumping now in both sports but that is meaningless in comparison to the foundational aspects. It is all about talent acquisition. If football stumbles onto an elite coach he could identify a freak quarterback and together push Miami to a narrow window of greatness. I am not expecting that, and I doubt Miami will ever be dominant again in the foreseeable future, but I'm not going to be dense enough to deny the potential. Last year we finished high in recruiting and this season were very high at one point.

As LuCane pointed out, we need to somehow sweep the conference teams on our own relative level or slightly below. Ever since we joined the ACC we have had trouble with the pesky teams. I opposed joining the ACC for exactly that reason. I posted the concern on numerous sites. The talent level on those midrange teams is always higher than fans prefer to believe. You get no credit for defeating those teams but it is very available to lose to those teams. Worst of all possible combinations. The Big East was less athletic in the trenches and didn't have nearly the defensive backs of the ACC. The Big East never had mid level teams that could put together defensive lines like North Carolina State had in 2017, for example. I don't think we had any idea what we were getting in to. The Canes were 17-24 point favorites all the time during our first few seasons in the ACC, yet losing several of those games, like at North Carolina or home to Georgia Tech. I was going nuts because it was so **** predictable. Now those mid level ACC teams have raised their power ratings by roughly 7 points on average, while Miami has fallen roughly 10-14 points, depending on the season. It equates to tight games that have every birthright to be tight games. It is comical every offseason when posters here matter of factly announce we will roll in each of those games, apparently with no comprehension toward the very low gap in average ability from player to player. As I've posted, there is a considerably wider disparity between teams recruiting 5th to 15th, than from 15th to 35 or 40.

Of course, now we are the 35 to 40...if that high.

 

[Dwinstitles]

Miami is a coach away from greatness. I agree that the admins/atheletic director have to be on the same page and make the right choice for the HCing job. These lazy recent hired suggest that these guys are just clueless and lazy. Not a good combo. This diaz hire is lazy. Sorry. hopefully he can turn it around but with the guys selecting him track record im not holding my breath. Hopefully diaz can surround himself with some great people. that all u can ask for. Havent taken the time to look at the guys he's hired so far cant comment on them. Was hoping for fedora at OC but its look like that isn't going to happen. To me the problem seems to be the university it's lack of taking athletics serious as a whole.

facts

 

[canesthing3]

OP is another living, breathing example of why everyone thinks we have the worst fan base in the world.

 

[passitback]

@holycane is an idiot calling UM a commuter school. FIU is a commuter school. USF is a commuter school.

He has zero clue and is proving to be a total ignoramus. Doubt he even has his GDE.

What's a GDE?

 

[SmokeyRone]

I don’t see the commitment to winning from this admin.

It’s telling that Barry Jackson at the Herald wrote an article a few days ago explaining why Miami will never be “back.”

We know that the Herald prints whatever UM wants. It’s almost as if our admin have thrown in the towel, and they are trying to lower fan expectations.

Be happy if we can compete for the coastal. That’s what this program is, and that’s what this program will be for the foreseeable future.

We are an above-average Coastal team, and that’s how it will stay until we get a new BOT, president, athletic director, etc.

The evidence is clear. Miami pays peanuts for coaches and support staff.

We hired a first time head coach, a DC from Louisiana Tech, and a S&C coach with two years of experience at Temple.

Some may want to put a positive spin on it, but to me, it looks like Miami is bargain-hunting as usual.

We won’t play the bag game. We won’t pay for the best coaches. We won’t pay fir the best support staff.

Alabama and Clemson are so far ahead of us right now, it’s laughably sad. These are professional organizations with professional recruiting staffs, top-of-the-line coaches and facilities, elite S&C and nutrition staff, etc.

Miami is like the flea market, mom and pop version of this.

We’ll never be a major player in college football as long as the current band of dopes are in charge.

So if you want to be a fan, be a fan. But lower your expectations. This program is not what it was in the past, and it’s not doing what it would need to do to move in that direction.

Be happy with coastal championships every few years. That’s Miami.

Truth. But I dont think we ever compete for a Coastal Championship again. You are wY too optomistic