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Live At the Clemson Game - Observations and Thoughts

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RedSquare said:
I returned home after the Clemson game, early Sunday, feeling like my dog had been run over by the town bully. Twice.

But, life goes on and there is a game to play next week .....

So as promised, here are my thoughts and a full report:

1) As an aside, I remain convinced having traveled to many NFL and College stadiums, that Clemson (along with Texas A&M), has the most welcoming and friendly fan base. For anyone who has ever been to the sewers that are Gainesville or Tallahassee, you'd appreciate the contrast.

2) I was with my friend, as his guest, an NFL Deputy GM that was there to scout the game. Oh, ****, let's be honest, he was mostly there to watch Lawrence, Etienne, and Brevin live, but it's interesting how they truly do watch all players (and coaches, by the way). Nothing much escapes their eyes. We got to the stadium fairly close to kickoff, as we were anticipating rain as was forecast. But did have time to walk a bit around and it is, as i said above, a rather friendly place.

3) we sat inside in a box, and with social distancing, was just basically us so we could talk freely. my friend is the youngest brother of one of my old Yale teammates, who played in the Big 10 in his college days, (had his career cut short by injury), and has been working in the NFL for a decent part of his professional life. So he had a lot of stories, one of which was how everyone in the NFL knows intimately how much cheating goes on with the schools whose names you know. And how little the NFL cares. Fun fact: the NFLPA has numerous "ethics" rules about agent conduct. However, there is no specific prohibition against knowingly breaking an NCAA rule to the detriment of a player or university. On that topic, no one in the NFL could care less.

4) Now on to the game .... We talked a lot of X's and O's throughout the night, from the same perspective, as we were both were college QB's. What impressed me was the scope of knowledge he had across all positions, and how he always framed individual performances in the context of what a player was being asked to do in the system being run. Anything in quotes, is directly from him, and where I piped in, and made my own observations, I will note that.

5) In the talent disparity: "on offense, only jordan starts for clemson. on defense, only Bolden and Phillips. and UM has a better punter and better kicker." No one else sees the field as a starter for Clemson on UM's starting 22/"24." I argued that Mallory was also as good as their starting TE, and he thought that was probably true

6) D'eriq is a competitor, a leader, and a great athlete. "his position in the NFL, though, is in the slot. he'll catch 40 balls a season by accident in the NFL in the right system." We both observed that his ball placement on deep throws isn't good enough for the NFL, and against certain coverages at this level, he has some problems. That being said, he's definitely a "big step up from what UM has had to endure recently," and good enough to win a lot of games.

7) the most talented NFL prospect in the UM QB room is TVD. (SIDE NOTE: the knowledge he had of the respective rosters, and the details he had in his ipad, down to even the backups and younger players was impressive and surprising). Thinks Trevor Lawrence is a terrific prospect, and as physically "talented as a Peyton Manning or an Andrew Luck. HIS CAVEAT: "he's going to the NFL having never played on a bad high school or college team he had the sole responsibility to make good. he will likely go to some 2 win NFL team. How's he react to that? He's got a good head for this game, but that's not a question that has an easy answer, and it affects how he plays as a day 1 starter which is what will be expected."

8) UM's WR room is weak, and he says the reason is "mark pope and harley are both slot guys being asked to play like they belong on the outside." neither is NFL caliber. Likens is respected, so it's not that they are being undercoached. Wiggins and the freshmen are all more talented than Pope and Harley, but are not ready to play well enough to beat a great team like Clemson. Jordan and Mallory are both going to play in the NFL.

9) Lashlee completely ignored any attempts to run outside zone and his decisions in the run game were "baffling, especially since the weakness of UM's line is guard play." (Tackle play has been better this year overall). Venebales "dared Lashlee to get out of his comfort zone, and Lashlee took the bait." The result was Lashlee called a game that played right into what Venebles wanted to do. i.e., keep the passing game on the perimeter, and stay out of two TE sets that could create conflicts in the middle of the field.

10) On defense, he says Silvera "disappears" for too many plays, and Ford disappears for too many series. Harrison-Hunte was "the best interior lineman on the field for UM." he said that it's our LB's that are the weakest link on the defense, not our corners. although corner play as compared to the elite teams is average at best. neither blades nor ivey have long term NFL futures, though blades is the better prospect. As to Blake Baker, he questions whether "setting edges is something he actually pays attention to." (said sarcastically, but in reality, our edge sets have been miserable all season). too many times, were were dead based on alignment pre-snap. as well as Roche graded out this game, he is generally too weak in the run game to be an every down NFL player. Philips is not NFL ready, (he needs one more year as he's been injured and needs to show more tape), "but he will be NFL good."

11) the team is good enough to beat some good teams, "but not nearly good enough to beat a great one." On defense, until we get serious play from our LB's and more consistency from our CB's, we will struggle. on offense, the line is being coached up beyond its talent this year, due "in part to change in the system and part to the coaching of justice." If you wanted to steal a player to switch sides from Clemson to Miami, (beyond the obvious of TL), given that any of the Clemson players could pretty much start for UM, he said: "steal just one LB and two OL from Clemson and it's a much closer ball game, even with the weak WR room at UM" They actually don't like it when kids who are not clear 1st or 2nd rounders leave early. "nobody wants to take an early entry guy if he's just 6th round talent. the extra year in college makes a huge difference when their talent is not draft elite." that being said, no one on UM's roster should spend "even more than 2 minutes thinking about leaving early other than Jordan or Bolden or Hedley. and they could all stay another year. "jordan's in line blocking needs work to be NFL ready, bolden needs development in some of his coverage skills. although, Hedley could punt for us next week. Cam'ron is 4th round right now, Blades maybe 6th or 7th, and Silvera the same. If Jordan leaves, and Mallory is the featured TE next year, and continues to develop, he's 3rd round talent or better."

12) On Manny: "with some of these kids, he needs to put his foot in their *** and leave it until they **** leather." (i thought that was hilarious and am going to steal that line). Thinks his style is too nice for the kind of kids he's got on the roster. "But he's young, and has been a head coach for all of 1 1/2 seasons. He has upside from here. Give it a season or two." Thinks ironically, that Golden in some ways may have left Richt with more overall talent than Richt left Manny.

13) On Sweeney: "Definitely a college coach. He stays in college, at Clemson, he has Nick Saban type college career. He goes to the NFL? He has a Nick Saban type NFL career." (that was his best line of the evening)

14) UNC is the "most dangerous team on the schedule after Clemson. by far. They are also recruiting exceedingly well."

15) some of the officiating in the ACC is "mind numbing," but that's not why the game was lost.

Anyway, that is pretty much what I can remember. Anything else pops into brain, I will add it.

Go 'Canes
Click to expand...
Are u sure ur friend don’t post here? Lol
 
scrantoncane said:
Great post. I think, given the lack of WRs that can make the play on a 50/50 ball, Mallory should be split out wide. Yeah, he has improved as a blocker and we can use him there in certain sets. But let's be honest... he is a big, slow(er) WR. We need a guy like him on the outside.

Move pope to the slot (or the bench, either/or). Brevin working the middle of the field. I'd like to see more 2 RB sets (esp against teams that can't collapse the pocket like clemson did against us... we should be creating mismatches like clemson did against us with Etienne).

Idk. We got boat raced, sure. But I'm not as down on us as everyone else here (as usual, cause I'm never as high after a win either).

Bring on Pitt.
Click to expand...
He did it at least once, got open, and then King under threw it and was intercepted. But at least he was open, which is more than we can see for 3/6/8.
 
RedSquare said:
I returned home after the Clemson game, early Sunday, feeling like my dog had been run over by the town bully. Twice.

But, life goes on and there is a game to play next week .....

So as promised, here are my thoughts and a full report:

1) As an aside, I remain convinced having traveled to many NFL and College stadiums, that Clemson (along with Texas A&M), has the most welcoming and friendly fan base. For anyone who has ever been to the sewers that are Gainesville or Tallahassee, you'd appreciate the contrast.

2) I was with my friend, as his guest, an NFL Deputy GM that was there to scout the game. Oh, ****, let's be honest, he was mostly there to watch Lawrence, Etienne, and Brevin live, but it's interesting how they truly do watch all players (and coaches, by the way). Nothing much escapes their eyes. We got to the stadium fairly close to kickoff, as we were anticipating rain as was forecast. But did have time to walk a bit around and it is, as i said above, a rather friendly place.

3) we sat inside in a box, and with social distancing, was just basically us so we could talk freely. my friend is the youngest brother of one of my old Yale teammates, who played in the Big 10 in his college days, (had his career cut short by injury), and has been working in the NFL for a decent part of his professional life. So he had a lot of stories, one of which was how everyone in the NFL knows intimately how much cheating goes on with the schools whose names you know. And how little the NFL cares. Fun fact: the NFLPA has numerous "ethics" rules about agent conduct. However, there is no specific prohibition against knowingly breaking an NCAA rule to the detriment of a player or university. On that topic, no one in the NFL could care less.

4) Now on to the game .... We talked a lot of X's and O's throughout the night, from the same perspective, as we were both were college QB's. What impressed me was the scope of knowledge he had across all positions, and how he always framed individual performances in the context of what a player was being asked to do in the system being run. Anything in quotes, is directly from him, and where I piped in, and made my own observations, I will note that.

5) In the talent disparity: "on offense, only jordan starts for clemson. on defense, only Bolden and Phillips. and UM has a better punter and better kicker." No one else sees the field as a starter for Clemson on UM's starting 22/"24." I argued that Mallory was also as good as their starting TE, and he thought that was probably true

6) D'eriq is a competitor, a leader, and a great athlete. "his position in the NFL, though, is in the slot. he'll catch 40 balls a season by accident in the NFL in the right system." We both observed that his ball placement on deep throws isn't good enough for the NFL, and against certain coverages at this level, he has some problems. That being said, he's definitely a "big step up from what UM has had to endure recently," and good enough to win a lot of games.

7) the most talented NFL prospect in the UM QB room is TVD. (SIDE NOTE: the knowledge he had of the respective rosters, and the details he had in his ipad, down to even the backups and younger players was impressive and surprising). Thinks Trevor Lawrence is a terrific prospect, and as physically "talented as a Peyton Manning or an Andrew Luck. HIS CAVEAT: "he's going to the NFL having never played on a bad high school or college team he had the sole responsibility to make good. he will likely go to some 2 win NFL team. How's he react to that? He's got a good head for this game, but that's not a question that has an easy answer, and it affects how he plays as a day 1 starter which is what will be expected."

8) UM's WR room is weak, and he says the reason is "mark pope and harley are both slot guys being asked to play like they belong on the outside." neither is NFL caliber. Likens is respected, so it's not that they are being undercoached. Wiggins and the freshmen are all more talented than Pope and Harley, but are not ready to play well enough to beat a great team like Clemson. Jordan and Mallory are both going to play in the NFL.

9) Lashlee completely ignored any attempts to run outside zone and his decisions in the run game were "baffling, especially since the weakness of UM's line is guard play." (Tackle play has been better this year overall). Venebales "dared Lashlee to get out of his comfort zone, and Lashlee took the bait." The result was Lashlee called a game that played right into what Venebles wanted to do. i.e., keep the passing game on the perimeter, and stay out of two TE sets that could create conflicts in the middle of the field.

10) On defense, he says Silvera "disappears" for too many plays, and Ford disappears for too many series. Harrison-Hunte was "the best interior lineman on the field for UM." he said that it's our LB's that are the weakest link on the defense, not our corners. although corner play as compared to the elite teams is average at best. neither blades nor ivey have long term NFL futures, though blades is the better prospect. As to Blake Baker, he questions whether "setting edges is something he actually pays attention to." (said sarcastically, but in reality, our edge sets have been miserable all season). too many times, were were dead based on alignment pre-snap. as well as Roche graded out this game, he is generally too weak in the run game to be an every down NFL player. Philips is not NFL ready, (he needs one more year as he's been injured and needs to show more tape), "but he will be NFL good."

11) the team is good enough to beat some good teams, "but not nearly good enough to beat a great one." On defense, until we get serious play from our LB's and more consistency from our CB's, we will struggle. on offense, the line is being coached up beyond its talent this year, due "in part to change in the system and part to the coaching of justice." If you wanted to steal a player to switch sides from Clemson to Miami, (beyond the obvious of TL), given that any of the Clemson players could pretty much start for UM, he said: "steal just one LB and two OL from Clemson and it's a much closer ball game, even with the weak WR room at UM" They actually don't like it when kids who are not clear 1st or 2nd rounders leave early. "nobody wants to take an early entry guy if he's just 6th round talent. the extra year in college makes a huge difference when their talent is not draft elite." that being said, no one on UM's roster should spend "even more than 2 minutes thinking about leaving early other than Jordan or Bolden or Hedley. and they could all stay another year. "jordan's in line blocking needs work to be NFL ready, bolden needs development in some of his coverage skills. although, Hedley could punt for us next week. Cam'ron is 4th round right now, Blades maybe 6th or 7th, and Silvera the same. If Jordan leaves, and Mallory is the featured TE next year, and continues to develop, he's 3rd round talent or better."

12) On Manny: "with some of these kids, he needs to put his foot in their *** and leave it until they **** leather." (i thought that was hilarious and am going to steal that line). Thinks his style is too nice for the kind of kids he's got on the roster. "But he's young, and has been a head coach for all of 1 1/2 seasons. He has upside from here. Give it a season or two." Thinks ironically, that Golden in some ways may have left Richt with more overall talent than Richt left Manny.

13) On Sweeney: "Definitely a college coach. He stays in college, at Clemson, he has Nick Saban type college career. He goes to the NFL? He has a Nick Saban type NFL career." (that was his best line of the evening)

14) UNC is the "most dangerous team on the schedule after Clemson. by far. They are also recruiting exceedingly well."

15) some of the officiating in the ACC is "mind numbing," but that's not why the game was lost.

Anyway, that is pretty much what I can remember. Anything else pops into brain, I will add it.

Go 'Canes
Click to expand...
By any chance did he give you his opinion on GR?
 
nycane said:
he's right. golden left better talent.
Click to expand...
Brotha, I made a post about this same fact. I posted a yr by yr stat line showing Richt’s record/Miami’s record getting progressively worst as Golden’s players started to move on from the program v. Richt’s players. Glad someone in the industry said the same thing.
 
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Great stuff and thank you @RedSquare .. mentioned this week on a post that recruiting/evaluation and even attrition was atrocious under Richt.

class 20 and 21 will bring us totally different results by 2022! We have to keep it up on the trail
 
Rellyrell said:
Brotha, I made a post about this same fact. I posted a yr by yr stat line showing Richt’s record/Miami’s record getting progressively worst as Golden’s players started to move on from the program v. Richt’s players. Glad someone in the industry said the same thing.
Click to expand...
I’ve said if before. Golden also put kids in nfl at a better level.
 
Appreciate you sharing that insight. Pretty much spot on.

@DMoney - do you think Phillips is just ready to leave school at this point? I havent seen him make nearly enough plays to even entertain leaving yet. Could make himself a lot more $ sticking around for another year
 
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RedSquare said:
I returned home after the Clemson game, early Sunday, feeling like my dog had been run over by the town bully. Twice.

But, life goes on and there is a game to play next week .....

So as promised, here are my thoughts and a full report:

1) As an aside, I remain convinced having traveled to many NFL and College stadiums, that Clemson (along with Texas A&M), has the most welcoming and friendly fan base. For anyone who has ever been to the sewers that are Gainesville or Tallahassee, you'd appreciate the contrast.

2) I was with my friend, as his guest, an NFL Deputy GM that was there to scout the game. Oh, ****, let's be honest, he was mostly there to watch Lawrence, Etienne, and Brevin live, but it's interesting how they truly do watch all players (and coaches, by the way). Nothing much escapes their eyes. We got to the stadium fairly close to kickoff, as we were anticipating rain as was forecast. But did have time to walk a bit around and it is, as i said above, a rather friendly place.

3) we sat inside in a box, and with social distancing, was just basically us so we could talk freely. my friend is the youngest brother of one of my old Yale teammates, who played in the Big 10 in his college days, (had his career cut short by injury), and has been working in the NFL for a decent part of his professional life. So he had a lot of stories, one of which was how everyone in the NFL knows intimately how much cheating goes on with the schools whose names you know. And how little the NFL cares. Fun fact: the NFLPA has numerous "ethics" rules about agent conduct. However, there is no specific prohibition against knowingly breaking an NCAA rule to the detriment of a player or university. On that topic, no one in the NFL could care less.

4) Now on to the game .... We talked a lot of X's and O's throughout the night, from the same perspective, as we were both were college QB's. What impressed me was the scope of knowledge he had across all positions, and how he always framed individual performances in the context of what a player was being asked to do in the system being run. Anything in quotes, is directly from him, and where I piped in, and made my own observations, I will note that.

5) In the talent disparity: "on offense, only jordan starts for clemson. on defense, only Bolden and Phillips. and UM has a better punter and better kicker." No one else sees the field as a starter for Clemson on UM's starting 22/"24." I argued that Mallory was also as good as their starting TE, and he thought that was probably true

6) D'eriq is a competitor, a leader, and a great athlete. "his position in the NFL, though, is in the slot. he'll catch 40 balls a season by accident in the NFL in the right system." We both observed that his ball placement on deep throws isn't good enough for the NFL, and against certain coverages at this level, he has some problems. That being said, he's definitely a "big step up from what UM has had to endure recently," and good enough to win a lot of games.

7) the most talented NFL prospect in the UM QB room is TVD. (SIDE NOTE: the knowledge he had of the respective rosters, and the details he had in his ipad, down to even the backups and younger players was impressive and surprising). Thinks Trevor Lawrence is a terrific prospect, and as physically "talented as a Peyton Manning or an Andrew Luck. HIS CAVEAT: "he's going to the NFL having never played on a bad high school or college team he had the sole responsibility to make good. he will likely go to some 2 win NFL team. How's he react to that? He's got a good head for this game, but that's not a question that has an easy answer, and it affects how he plays as a day 1 starter which is what will be expected."

8) UM's WR room is weak, and he says the reason is "mark pope and harley are both slot guys being asked to play like they belong on the outside." neither is NFL caliber. Likens is respected, so it's not that they are being undercoached. Wiggins and the freshmen are all more talented than Pope and Harley, but are not ready to play well enough to beat a great team like Clemson. Jordan and Mallory are both going to play in the NFL.

9) Lashlee completely ignored any attempts to run outside zone and his decisions in the run game were "baffling, especially since the weakness of UM's line is guard play." (Tackle play has been better this year overall). Venebales "dared Lashlee to get out of his comfort zone, and Lashlee took the bait." The result was Lashlee called a game that played right into what Venebles wanted to do. i.e., keep the passing game on the perimeter, and stay out of two TE sets that could create conflicts in the middle of the field.

10) On defense, he says Silvera "disappears" for too many plays, and Ford disappears for too many series. Harrison-Hunte was "the best interior lineman on the field for UM." he said that it's our LB's that are the weakest link on the defense, not our corners. although corner play as compared to the elite teams is average at best. neither blades nor ivey have long term NFL futures, though blades is the better prospect. As to Blake Baker, he questions whether "setting edges is something he actually pays attention to." (said sarcastically, but in reality, our edge sets have been miserable all season). too many times, were were dead based on alignment pre-snap. as well as Roche graded out this game, he is generally too weak in the run game to be an every down NFL player. Philips is not NFL ready, (he needs one more year as he's been injured and needs to show more tape), "but he will be NFL good."

11) the team is good enough to beat some good teams, "but not nearly good enough to beat a great one." On defense, until we get serious play from our LB's and more consistency from our CB's, we will struggle. on offense, the line is being coached up beyond its talent this year, due "in part to change in the system and part to the coaching of justice." If you wanted to steal a player to switch sides from Clemson to Miami, (beyond the obvious of TL), given that any of the Clemson players could pretty much start for UM, he said: "steal just one LB and two OL from Clemson and it's a much closer ball game, even with the weak WR room at UM" They actually don't like it when kids who are not clear 1st or 2nd rounders leave early. "nobody wants to take an early entry guy if he's just 6th round talent. the extra year in college makes a huge difference when their talent is not draft elite." that being said, no one on UM's roster should spend "even more than 2 minutes thinking about leaving early other than Jordan or Bolden or Hedley. and they could all stay another year. "jordan's in line blocking needs work to be NFL ready, bolden needs development in some of his coverage skills. although, Hedley could punt for us next week. Cam'ron is 4th round right now, Blades maybe 6th or 7th, and Silvera the same. If Jordan leaves, and Mallory is the featured TE next year, and continues to develop, he's 3rd round talent or better."

12) On Manny: "with some of these kids, he needs to put his foot in their *** and leave it until they **** leather." (i thought that was hilarious and am going to steal that line). Thinks his style is too nice for the kind of kids he's got on the roster. "But he's young, and has been a head coach for all of 1 1/2 seasons. He has upside from here. Give it a season or two." Thinks ironically, that Golden in some ways may have left Richt with more overall talent than Richt left Manny.

13) On Sweeney: "Definitely a college coach. He stays in college, at Clemson, he has Nick Saban type college career. He goes to the NFL? He has a Nick Saban type NFL career." (that was his best line of the evening)

14) UNC is the "most dangerous team on the schedule after Clemson. by far. They are also recruiting exceedingly well."

15) some of the officiating in the ACC is "mind numbing," but that's not why the game was lost.

Anyway, that is pretty much what I can remember. Anything else pops into brain, I will add it.

Go 'Canes
Click to expand...
Agree with your opposing fan perspective. The vast majority of Texas A&M fans are friendly and all that. In other words, I've personally had positive experiencs with about eight/nine of their male/female fans in the past.
 
Coach Macho said:
Great post.
And somewhat depressing.
Click to expand...
I think it was mostly encouraging, basically saying that we don't have the roster to compete with Clemson. I would be more worried if he said that we had the talent, but we still got our asses handed to us.

Although the areas that are concerning are the 1) Manny being 'too nice' (we have now heard this coming from a few places) and 2) Lashlee's play calling.

Of course the flipside to all of that is we have heard these types of things for the last 10+ years.
 
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RedSquare said:
I returned home after the Clemson game, early Sunday, feeling like my dog had been run over by the town bully. Twice.

But, life goes on and there is a game to play next week .....

So as promised, here are my thoughts and a full report:

1) As an aside, I remain convinced having traveled to many NFL and College stadiums, that Clemson (along with Texas A&M), has the most welcoming and friendly fan base. For anyone who has ever been to the sewers that are Gainesville or Tallahassee, you'd appreciate the contrast.

2) I was with my friend, as his guest, an NFL Deputy GM that was there to scout the game. Oh, ****, let's be honest, he was mostly there to watch Lawrence, Etienne, and Brevin live, but it's interesting how they truly do watch all players (and coaches, by the way). Nothing much escapes their eyes. We got to the stadium fairly close to kickoff, as we were anticipating rain as was forecast. But did have time to walk a bit around and it is, as i said above, a rather friendly place.

3) we sat inside in a box, and with social distancing, was just basically us so we could talk freely. my friend is the youngest brother of one of my old Yale teammates, who played in the Big 10 in his college days, (had his career cut short by injury), and has been working in the NFL for a decent part of his professional life. So he had a lot of stories, one of which was how everyone in the NFL knows intimately how much cheating goes on with the schools whose names you know. And how little the NFL cares. Fun fact: the NFLPA has numerous "ethics" rules about agent conduct. However, there is no specific prohibition against knowingly breaking an NCAA rule to the detriment of a player or university. On that topic, no one in the NFL could care less.

4) Now on to the game .... We talked a lot of X's and O's throughout the night, from the same perspective, as we were both were college QB's. What impressed me was the scope of knowledge he had across all positions, and how he always framed individual performances in the context of what a player was being asked to do in the system being run. Anything in quotes, is directly from him, and where I piped in, and made my own observations, I will note that.

5) In the talent disparity: "on offense, only jordan starts for clemson. on defense, only Bolden and Phillips. and UM has a better punter and better kicker." No one else sees the field as a starter for Clemson on UM's starting 22/"24." I argued that Mallory was also as good as their starting TE, and he thought that was probably true

6) D'eriq is a competitor, a leader, and a great athlete. "his position in the NFL, though, is in the slot. he'll catch 40 balls a season by accident in the NFL in the right system." We both observed that his ball placement on deep throws isn't good enough for the NFL, and against certain coverages at this level, he has some problems. That being said, he's definitely a "big step up from what UM has had to endure recently," and good enough to win a lot of games.

7) the most talented NFL prospect in the UM QB room is TVD. (SIDE NOTE: the knowledge he had of the respective rosters, and the details he had in his ipad, down to even the backups and younger players was impressive and surprising). Thinks Trevor Lawrence is a terrific prospect, and as physically "talented as a Peyton Manning or an Andrew Luck. HIS CAVEAT: "he's going to the NFL having never played on a bad high school or college team he had the sole responsibility to make good. he will likely go to some 2 win NFL team. How's he react to that? He's got a good head for this game, but that's not a question that has an easy answer, and it affects how he plays as a day 1 starter which is what will be expected."

8) UM's WR room is weak, and he says the reason is "mark pope and harley are both slot guys being asked to play like they belong on the outside." neither is NFL caliber. Likens is respected, so it's not that they are being undercoached. Wiggins and the freshmen are all more talented than Pope and Harley, but are not ready to play well enough to beat a great team like Clemson. Jordan and Mallory are both going to play in the NFL.

9) Lashlee completely ignored any attempts to run outside zone and his decisions in the run game were "baffling, especially since the weakness of UM's line is guard play." (Tackle play has been better this year overall). Venebales "dared Lashlee to get out of his comfort zone, and Lashlee took the bait." The result was Lashlee called a game that played right into what Venebles wanted to do. i.e., keep the passing game on the perimeter, and stay out of two TE sets that could create conflicts in the middle of the field.

10) On defense, he says Silvera "disappears" for too many plays, and Ford disappears for too many series. Harrison-Hunte was "the best interior lineman on the field for UM." he said that it's our LB's that are the weakest link on the defense, not our corners. although corner play as compared to the elite teams is average at best. neither blades nor ivey have long term NFL futures, though blades is the better prospect. As to Blake Baker, he questions whether "setting edges is something he actually pays attention to." (said sarcastically, but in reality, our edge sets have been miserable all season). too many times, were were dead based on alignment pre-snap. as well as Roche graded out this game, he is generally too weak in the run game to be an every down NFL player. Philips is not NFL ready, (he needs one more year as he's been injured and needs to show more tape), "but he will be NFL good."

11) the team is good enough to beat some good teams, "but not nearly good enough to beat a great one." On defense, until we get serious play from our LB's and more consistency from our CB's, we will struggle. on offense, the line is being coached up beyond its talent this year, due "in part to change in the system and part to the coaching of justice." If you wanted to steal a player to switch sides from Clemson to Miami, (beyond the obvious of TL), given that any of the Clemson players could pretty much start for UM, he said: "steal just one LB and two OL from Clemson and it's a much closer ball game, even with the weak WR room at UM" They actually don't like it when kids who are not clear 1st or 2nd rounders leave early. "nobody wants to take an early entry guy if he's just 6th round talent. the extra year in college makes a huge difference when their talent is not draft elite." that being said, no one on UM's roster should spend "even more than 2 minutes thinking about leaving early other than Jordan or Bolden or Hedley. and they could all stay another year. "jordan's in line blocking needs work to be NFL ready, bolden needs development in some of his coverage skills. although, Hedley could punt for us next week. Cam'ron is 4th round right now, Blades maybe 6th or 7th, and Silvera the same. If Jordan leaves, and Mallory is the featured TE next year, and continues to develop, he's 3rd round talent or better."

12) On Manny: "with some of these kids, he needs to put his foot in their *** and leave it until they **** leather." (i thought that was hilarious and am going to steal that line). Thinks his style is too nice for the kind of kids he's got on the roster. "But he's young, and has been a head coach for all of 1 1/2 seasons. He has upside from here. Give it a season or two." Thinks ironically, that Golden in some ways may have left Richt with more overall talent than Richt left Manny.

13) On Sweeney: "Definitely a college coach. He stays in college, at Clemson, he has Nick Saban type college career. He goes to the NFL? He has a Nick Saban type NFL career." (that was his best line of the evening)

14) UNC is the "most dangerous team on the schedule after Clemson. by far. They are also recruiting exceedingly well."

15) some of the officiating in the ACC is "mind numbing," but that's not why the game was lost.

Anyway, that is pretty much what I can remember. Anything else pops into brain, I will add it.

Go 'Canes
Click to expand...
****! Maybe I should apply for any opening NFL scout position. lmfao Just kidding. duh. Because I've maintained for four games now, that Harrison-Hunte should see more rep's on defense. And I've also said the LB corps just out and out, SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And yes, the diminutive HC, from Calle Ocho, plays the Father Flannagan role too much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But he CAN'T change because his personality doesn't allow for him to be a Vince Lombardi/Bear Bryant/Jimmy Johnson type of head coach. Think mean Mother F'er! lmfao
 
nycane said:
I’ve said if before. Golden also put kids in nfl at a better level.
Click to expand...

I've said this before on these very boards, and was ridiculed unmercifully. Al wasn't even close to a good coach, but man for man his recruiting was better than Randy's (As head coach) and Richt's. NFL rosters bear that out.
 
RedSquare said:
I returned home after the Clemson game, early Sunday, feeling like my dog had been run over by the town bully. Twice.

But, life goes on and there is a game to play next week .....

So as promised, here are my thoughts and a full report:

1) As an aside, I remain convinced having traveled to many NFL and College stadiums, that Clemson (along with Texas A&M), has the most welcoming and friendly fan base. For anyone who has ever been to the sewers that are Gainesville or Tallahassee, you'd appreciate the contrast.

2) I was with my friend, as his guest, an NFL Deputy GM that was there to scout the game. Oh, ****, let's be honest, he was mostly there to watch Lawrence, Etienne, and Brevin live, but it's interesting how they truly do watch all players (and coaches, by the way). Nothing much escapes their eyes. We got to the stadium fairly close to kickoff, as we were anticipating rain as was forecast. But did have time to walk a bit around and it is, as i said above, a rather friendly place.

3) we sat inside in a box, and with social distancing, was just basically us so we could talk freely. my friend is the youngest brother of one of my old Yale teammates, who played in the Big 10 in his college days, (had his career cut short by injury), and has been working in the NFL for a decent part of his professional life. So he had a lot of stories, one of which was how everyone in the NFL knows intimately how much cheating goes on with the schools whose names you know. And how little the NFL cares. Fun fact: the NFLPA has numerous "ethics" rules about agent conduct. However, there is no specific prohibition against knowingly breaking an NCAA rule to the detriment of a player or university. On that topic, no one in the NFL could care less.

4) Now on to the game .... We talked a lot of X's and O's throughout the night, from the same perspective, as we were both were college QB's. What impressed me was the scope of knowledge he had across all positions, and how he always framed individual performances in the context of what a player was being asked to do in the system being run. Anything in quotes, is directly from him, and where I piped in, and made my own observations, I will note that.

5) In the talent disparity: "on offense, only jordan starts for clemson. on defense, only Bolden and Phillips. and UM has a better punter and better kicker." No one else sees the field as a starter for Clemson on UM's starting 22/"24." I argued that Mallory was also as good as their starting TE, and he thought that was probably true

6) D'eriq is a competitor, a leader, and a great athlete. "his position in the NFL, though, is in the slot. he'll catch 40 balls a season by accident in the NFL in the right system." We both observed that his ball placement on deep throws isn't good enough for the NFL, and against certain coverages at this level, he has some problems. That being said, he's definitely a "big step up from what UM has had to endure recently," and good enough to win a lot of games.

7) the most talented NFL prospect in the UM QB room is TVD. (SIDE NOTE: the knowledge he had of the respective rosters, and the details he had in his ipad, down to even the backups and younger players was impressive and surprising). Thinks Trevor Lawrence is a terrific prospect, and as physically "talented as a Peyton Manning or an Andrew Luck. HIS CAVEAT: "he's going to the NFL having never played on a bad high school or college team he had the sole responsibility to make good. he will likely go to some 2 win NFL team. How's he react to that? He's got a good head for this game, but that's not a question that has an easy answer, and it affects how he plays as a day 1 starter which is what will be expected."

8) UM's WR room is weak, and he says the reason is "mark pope and harley are both slot guys being asked to play like they belong on the outside." neither is NFL caliber. Likens is respected, so it's not that they are being undercoached. Wiggins and the freshmen are all more talented than Pope and Harley, but are not ready to play well enough to beat a great team like Clemson. Jordan and Mallory are both going to play in the NFL.

9) Lashlee completely ignored any attempts to run outside zone and his decisions in the run game were "baffling, especially since the weakness of UM's line is guard play." (Tackle play has been better this year overall). Venebales "dared Lashlee to get out of his comfort zone, and Lashlee took the bait." The result was Lashlee called a game that played right into what Venebles wanted to do. i.e., keep the passing game on the perimeter, and stay out of two TE sets that could create conflicts in the middle of the field.

10) On defense, he says Silvera "disappears" for too many plays, and Ford disappears for too many series. Harrison-Hunte was "the best interior lineman on the field for UM." he said that it's our LB's that are the weakest link on the defense, not our corners. although corner play as compared to the elite teams is average at best. neither blades nor ivey have long term NFL futures, though blades is the better prospect. As to Blake Baker, he questions whether "setting edges is something he actually pays attention to." (said sarcastically, but in reality, our edge sets have been miserable all season). too many times, were were dead based on alignment pre-snap. as well as Roche graded out this game, he is generally too weak in the run game to be an every down NFL player. Philips is not NFL ready, (he needs one more year as he's been injured and needs to show more tape), "but he will be NFL good."

11) the team is good enough to beat some good teams, "but not nearly good enough to beat a great one." On defense, until we get serious play from our LB's and more consistency from our CB's, we will struggle. on offense, the line is being coached up beyond its talent this year, due "in part to change in the system and part to the coaching of justice." If you wanted to steal a player to switch sides from Clemson to Miami, (beyond the obvious of TL), given that any of the Clemson players could pretty much start for UM, he said: "steal just one LB and two OL from Clemson and it's a much closer ball game, even with the weak WR room at UM" They actually don't like it when kids who are not clear 1st or 2nd rounders leave early. "nobody wants to take an early entry guy if he's just 6th round talent. the extra year in college makes a huge difference when their talent is not draft elite." that being said, no one on UM's roster should spend "even more than 2 minutes thinking about leaving early other than Jordan or Bolden or Hedley. and they could all stay another year. "jordan's in line blocking needs work to be NFL ready, bolden needs development in some of his coverage skills. although, Hedley could punt for us next week. Cam'ron is 4th round right now, Blades maybe 6th or 7th, and Silvera the same. If Jordan leaves, and Mallory is the featured TE next year, and continues to develop, he's 3rd round talent or better."

12) On Manny: "with some of these kids, he needs to put his foot in their *** and leave it until they **** leather." (i thought that was hilarious and am going to steal that line). Thinks his style is too nice for the kind of kids he's got on the roster. "But he's young, and has been a head coach for all of 1 1/2 seasons. He has upside from here. Give it a season or two." Thinks ironically, that Golden in some ways may have left Richt with more overall talent than Richt left Manny.

13) On Sweeney: "Definitely a college coach. He stays in college, at Clemson, he has Nick Saban type college career. He goes to the NFL? He has a Nick Saban type NFL career." (that was his best line of the evening)

14) UNC is the "most dangerous team on the schedule after Clemson. by far. They are also recruiting exceedingly well."

15) some of the officiating in the ACC is "mind numbing," but that's not why the game was lost.

Anyway, that is pretty much what I can remember. Anything else pops into brain, I will add it.

Go 'Canes
Click to expand...
Thanks so much. It's great to get feedback from a pro.

I couldn't agree more about the Manny comment. He's too soft with the players. They need to be coached hard. These are Miami kids. They will appreciate it in the long run.
 
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Soooo dude sat 6 feet away at the game, had a few drinks, travelled home.... and remembered everything verbatim. HA!
Yall wild man. Phillips ain‘t better than Greg and Bolden ain’t better than Gil because he cannot tackle.
But they are light skinned and not from Miami so they’re “Ready for the NFL”.

Not one thing that hasn’t been stated 1000 times in this ‘scouting report’ but people question whether Ed Reed can coach.
It’s subtle, but it’s there in the subtext. What has made and will make this program great, at it’s core, is negus from South Florida.
 
RedSquare said:
I returned home after the Clemson game, early Sunday, feeling like my dog had been run over by the town bully. Twice.

But, life goes on and there is a game to play next week .....

So as promised, here are my thoughts and a full report:

1) As an aside, I remain convinced having traveled to many NFL and College stadiums, that Clemson (along with Texas A&M), has the most welcoming and friendly fan base. For anyone who has ever been to the sewers that are Gainesville or Tallahassee, you'd appreciate the contrast.

2) I was with my friend, as his guest, an NFL Deputy GM that was there to scout the game. Oh, ****, let's be honest, he was mostly there to watch Lawrence, Etienne, and Brevin live, but it's interesting how they truly do watch all players (and coaches, by the way). Nothing much escapes their eyes. We got to the stadium fairly close to kickoff, as we were anticipating rain as was forecast. But did have time to walk a bit around and it is, as i said above, a rather friendly place.

3) we sat inside in a box, and with social distancing, was just basically us so we could talk freely. my friend is the youngest brother of one of my old Yale teammates, who played in the Big 10 in his college days, (had his career cut short by injury), and has been working in the NFL for a decent part of his professional life. So he had a lot of stories, one of which was how everyone in the NFL knows intimately how much cheating goes on with the schools whose names you know. And how little the NFL cares. Fun fact: the NFLPA has numerous "ethics" rules about agent conduct. However, there is no specific prohibition against knowingly breaking an NCAA rule to the detriment of a player or university. On that topic, no one in the NFL could care less.

4) Now on to the game .... We talked a lot of X's and O's throughout the night, from the same perspective, as we were both were college QB's. What impressed me was the scope of knowledge he had across all positions, and how he always framed individual performances in the context of what a player was being asked to do in the system being run. Anything in quotes, is directly from him, and where I piped in, and made my own observations, I will note that.

5) In the talent disparity: "on offense, only jordan starts for clemson. on defense, only Bolden and Phillips. and UM has a better punter and better kicker." No one else sees the field as a starter for Clemson on UM's starting 22/"24." I argued that Mallory was also as good as their starting TE, and he thought that was probably true

6) D'eriq is a competitor, a leader, and a great athlete. "his position in the NFL, though, is in the slot. he'll catch 40 balls a season by accident in the NFL in the right system." We both observed that his ball placement on deep throws isn't good enough for the NFL, and against certain coverages at this level, he has some problems. That being said, he's definitely a "big step up from what UM has had to endure recently," and good enough to win a lot of games.

7) the most talented NFL prospect in the UM QB room is TVD. (SIDE NOTE: the knowledge he had of the respective rosters, and the details he had in his ipad, down to even the backups and younger players was impressive and surprising). Thinks Trevor Lawrence is a terrific prospect, and as physically "talented as a Peyton Manning or an Andrew Luck. HIS CAVEAT: "he's going to the NFL having never played on a bad high school or college team he had the sole responsibility to make good. he will likely go to some 2 win NFL team. How's he react to that? He's got a good head for this game, but that's not a question that has an easy answer, and it affects how he plays as a day 1 starter which is what will be expected."

8) UM's WR room is weak, and he says the reason is "mark pope and harley are both slot guys being asked to play like they belong on the outside." neither is NFL caliber. Likens is respected, so it's not that they are being undercoached. Wiggins and the freshmen are all more talented than Pope and Harley, but are not ready to play well enough to beat a great team like Clemson. Jordan and Mallory are both going to play in the NFL.

9) Lashlee completely ignored any attempts to run outside zone and his decisions in the run game were "baffling, especially since the weakness of UM's line is guard play." (Tackle play has been better this year overall). Venebales "dared Lashlee to get out of his comfort zone, and Lashlee took the bait." The result was Lashlee called a game that played right into what Venebles wanted to do. i.e., keep the passing game on the perimeter, and stay out of two TE sets that could create conflicts in the middle of the field.

10) On defense, he says Silvera "disappears" for too many plays, and Ford disappears for too many series. Harrison-Hunte was "the best interior lineman on the field for UM." he said that it's our LB's that are the weakest link on the defense, not our corners. although corner play as compared to the elite teams is average at best. neither blades nor ivey have long term NFL futures, though blades is the better prospect. As to Blake Baker, he questions whether "setting edges is something he actually pays attention to." (said sarcastically, but in reality, our edge sets have been miserable all season). too many times, were were dead based on alignment pre-snap. as well as Roche graded out this game, he is generally too weak in the run game to be an every down NFL player. Philips is not NFL ready, (he needs one more year as he's been injured and needs to show more tape), "but he will be NFL good."

11) the team is good enough to beat some good teams, "but not nearly good enough to beat a great one." On defense, until we get serious play from our LB's and more consistency from our CB's, we will struggle. on offense, the line is being coached up beyond its talent this year, due "in part to change in the system and part to the coaching of justice." If you wanted to steal a player to switch sides from Clemson to Miami, (beyond the obvious of TL), given that any of the Clemson players could pretty much start for UM, he said: "steal just one LB and two OL from Clemson and it's a much closer ball game, even with the weak WR room at UM" They actually don't like it when kids who are not clear 1st or 2nd rounders leave early. "nobody wants to take an early entry guy if he's just 6th round talent. the extra year in college makes a huge difference when their talent is not draft elite." that being said, no one on UM's roster should spend "even more than 2 minutes thinking about leaving early other than Jordan or Bolden or Hedley. and they could all stay another year. "jordan's in line blocking needs work to be NFL ready, bolden needs development in some of his coverage skills. although, Hedley could punt for us next week. Cam'ron is 4th round right now, Blades maybe 6th or 7th, and Silvera the same. If Jordan leaves, and Mallory is the featured TE next year, and continues to develop, he's 3rd round talent or better."

12) On Manny: "with some of these kids, he needs to put his foot in their *** and leave it until they **** leather." (i thought that was hilarious and am going to steal that line). Thinks his style is too nice for the kind of kids he's got on the roster. "But he's young, and has been a head coach for all of 1 1/2 seasons. He has upside from here. Give it a season or two." Thinks ironically, that Golden in some ways may have left Richt with more overall talent than Richt left Manny.

13) On Sweeney: "Definitely a college coach. He stays in college, at Clemson, he has Nick Saban type college career. He goes to the NFL? He has a Nick Saban type NFL career." (that was his best line of the evening)

14) UNC is the "most dangerous team on the schedule after Clemson. by far. They are also recruiting exceedingly well."

15) some of the officiating in the ACC is "mind numbing," but that's not why the game was lost.

Anyway, that is pretty much what I can remember. Anything else pops into brain, I will add it.

Go 'Canes
Click to expand...
It's weird. There's something in here for every body, even for those that are on the opposite side of the same fence.

There's an awful lot of "See, I said that before".

Make no mistake though, it's a great post.
 
RVACane said:
D’no/Golden left Manny/Richt better talent than MannyRicht left Baker/Manny on Defense or just offense?
Click to expand...

it was a general statement.

plus, i think, unlike golden who deferred a lot to d'onofrio on a lot of what happened on that side of the ball, my understanding is that richt dominated the decisionmaking as it related to who got offers and who didn't for the roster. could be wrong but that's my understanding.
 
FrancisSaywer said:
@RedSquare Thank you for that information. It is much appreciated. I'm not questioning any of it really as it really lines up and makes sense. There is one thing that bothers me because it doesn't stand to reason. I refer everyone to point #9. Why???? Why on earth would an experienced and intelligent guy like Lashlee just purposely ignore the option of running outside zone? Why would he purposely ignore the middle of the field? Why would he not try to leverage his best weapon(Jordan) to exploit the middle of the field. If not Jordan then anyone. Mallory or a RB or a crossing route or a mesh concept. Why? This makes no sense at all. It's like asking why a boxer would avoid the left jab and get beat when he knew full well that left jabs were his opponents weakness? None of this makes any sense to me. There must be another piece of this puzzle that we are missing. Anyone?
Click to expand...

No. freaking. clue. :noidea:
 
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