forums

LeBron signs with Philly for 2 years $8mil….

I think he wants to win in 4 different cities to try and get his legacy past Jordan. To me, even if he did win a chip, MJ's still the GOAT. But that would be something...to win on 4 different teams as one of the main drivers and not a passenger like Robert Horry.
 
James, Embiid, Brown... guys who have lost more than their share of playoff series as the favorite. No one will be able to match the talent with those guys plus Maxey and Edgecombe. But I don't know if Embiid really fits at this point, or how much he can really play anyway. And Brown will have to go back to being second or third fiddle, which he didn't love. And Maxey was pretty ball-dominant too, so his role will change significantly. Hard to say anyone should be the favorite over Philly, but it'll be hilarious if they lose. If he went back to Cleveland and won another, respect. If he does it with this roster in Philly, hard to give him enough credit to change any conversations about his place in basketball history.
 
Again, I usually don’t chime in topics like this, but LBJ used to be my favorite player outside of Scottie & MJ. I know Heat fans here were probably happy of his decision, but as a pure basketball fan, it completely turned me off. Never in my life have I seen a supposed “face of the league” leave their team to go join another man’s team that’s considered Top 5 in the entire league. It was unprecedented.

Younger fans will say LBJ is the GOAT b/c of inflated, longevity stats, & their pitch is always around 2007 (which is quite literally the most overrated season in modern NBA history based upon the caliber of teams faced) &, of course 2016.

If Philly doesn’t win the chip this yr, this will be another black eye on LBJ’s resumé to go along w:
1. First & only player to lead teams to back-to-back 60+ win seasons & not make The Finals
2. 2007 Finals meltdown
3. 2011 Finals meltdown
4. Crampgate of 2014
5. 2022 “Superteam” debacle
6. Captain of 1st Lakers team in history to lose in 1st Rd as 3-seed or higher
7. Most turnovers in NBA History
8. Most missed shots in NBA history
9. T-most Finals losses in NBA history
10. Played w/ more All-Stars, All-NBA, Top 75 Players, & HOFers than any player in modern-NBA history, & only 2nd to Bill Russell in NBA history

He better win this yr, b/c I’m sure Philly will be the prohibitive favorites.
 
Rellyrell said:
Again, I usually don’t chime in topics like this, but LBJ used to be my favorite player outside of Scottie & MJ. I know Heat fans here were probably happy of his decision, but as a pure basketball fan, it completely turned me off. Never in my life have I seen a supposed “face of the league” leave their team to go join another man’s team that’s considered Top 5 in the entire league. It was unprecedented.

Younger fans will say LBJ is the GOAT b/c of inflated, longevity stats, & their pitch is always around 2007 (which is quite literally the most overrated season in modern NBA history based upon the caliber of teams faced) &, of course 2016.

If Philly doesn’t win the chip this yr, this will be another black eye on LBJ’s resumé to go along w:
1. First & only player to lead teams to back-to-back 60+ win seasons & not make The Finals
2. 2007 Finals meltdown
3. 2011 Finals meltdown
4. Crampgate of 2014
5. 2022 “Superteam” debacle
6. Captain of 1st Lakers team in history to lose in 1st Rd as 3-seed or higher
7. Most turnovers in NBA History
8. Most missed shots in NBA history
9. T-most Finals losses in NBA history
10. Played w/ more All-Stars, All-NBA, Top 75 Players, & HOFers than any player in modern-NBA history, & only 2nd to Bill Russell in NBA history

He better win this yr, b/c I’m sure Philly will be the prohibitive favorites.
Click to expand...
Btw, let's not forget every title was basically tainted.
the first title in Miami they had to rig the boston and OKC series with the refs.
Everyone remembers the ray allen 3 but forgets lebron literally shoved Tony Parker out of bounds
Draymond suspension although I dont forgive their choke
the Covid chip.

Also, he has been on the end of some of the worst blowouts in NBA history.
 
Would have liked Warriors with AD better. At least that would have been old men giving it one last go fun across the board.

But man it's always funny how many Lebron haters there are.
 
SanAmaro2005 said:
James, Embiid, Brown... guys who have lost more than their share of playoff series as the favorite. No one will be able to match the talent with those guys plus Maxey and Edgecombe. But I don't know if Embiid really fits at this point, or how much he can really play anyway. And Brown will have to go back to being second or third fiddle, which he didn't love. And Maxey was pretty ball-dominant too, so his role will change significantly. Hard to say anyone should be the favorite over Philly, but it'll be hilarious if they lose. If he went back to Cleveland and won another, respect. If he does it with this roster in Philly, hard to give him enough credit to change any conversations about his place in basketball history.
Click to expand...
As a Sixers fan I agree with just about everything you wrote, except that we are so starved for a championship that we will give credit to any and everyone who wins it.
Embiid is the wildcard. What I hope Philly does is play a fast break game off every defensive rebound. Then if they have to go into the half court game, let Embiid make his way to the high post/free throw line and run offense through him. It would be reminiscent of how the Lakers played in the mid-80’s with Kareem. Showtime in the full court and dump it down to Kareem in the half court, and then react if the double team comes. Back then the reaction was to cut if your defender went to double team Kareem. Now the reaction is to make the open 3.

So much will still depend on Embiid’s health.
 
Calinative said:
But man it's always funny how many Lebron haters there are.
Click to expand...
U got to be kidding me with that bullshyt. He's arguably the most empowered & enabled superstar athlete in the history of American sports, & whatever hate & criticism targeted towards him is 100% warranted & only due to his unwillingness to accept accountability. With much power, comes responsibility; heavy is the head that wears the crown, & any other platitude u can think of is also applicable here. Being empowered doesn't just include his career earnings which have eclipsed well over $1 billion, but also the leverage he has wielded over every franchise he has played for, the league as a whole, & the media. This is why he has been the default HC & GM of every franchise he's played for, by controlling personnel decisions & getting HCs fired repeatedly. It's why he felt compelled to break the unspoken rule against forming superteams that stack the deck & undermine the competitive balance of the league. It's why the NBA league office helped to facilitate one of the worst trades in history in order to make it easier for him to win; just imagine if the NBA sanctioned, & not vetoed the CP3 to Lakers trade, how many more rings would Kobe have won? It's why he chooses to load manage, despite being bigger, stronger, & faster than 99.9% of all players, playing in the least physical era in NBA history, credible suspicion of using PEDs, all while playing absolutely no defense. And finally, it's also why he has to deploy mouthpieces affiliated with his sports agency, & various plants in the media to constantly control & shape narratives.

When u are the face of the league & anoint yourself as the "chosen one" or "king" then you have a responsibility to be a good steward of the game by helping to elevate it for future generations. That is what all-time great players that came before him also had to do; Magic & Bird saved the NBA from collapse; MJ made it globalized, & Kobe expanded on that by becoming the most popular player in China. Not only did LBJ not elevate the game, but u can make a legitimate argument that he actively destroyed it. The NBA has lost close to 50% of its viewership since 2012, which aligns with the prime yrs of his career & he deserves blame for destroying the all-star game as well.

LBJ & the NBA is a cautionary tale for all other sports to understand what can happen when u disproportionately empower your players; the players inevitably become mercenaries that only care about themselves while compromising the integrity of the game. When the players care more about all of the things the game affords them, than the actual game itself, it becomes a very big problem. I hope the pro free market NIL crowd on this forum understands that CFB is also on a similar trajectory, without outside intervention.



 
Last edited:
Trafficante said:
U got to be kidding me with that bullshyt. He's arguably the most empowered & enabled superstar athlete in the history of American sports, & whatever hate & criticism targeted towards him is 100% warranted & only due to his unwillingness to accept accountability. With much power, comes responsibility; heavy is the head that wears the crown, & any other platitude u can think of is also applicable here. Being empowered doesn't just include his career earnings which have eclipsed well over $1 billion, but also the leverage he has wielded over every franchise he has played for, the league as a whole, & the media. This is why he has been the default HC & GM of every franchise he's played for, by controlling personnel decisions & getting HCs fired repeatedly. It's why he felt compelled to break the unspoken rule against forming superteams that stack the deck & undermine the competitive balance of the league. It's why the NBA league office helped to facilitate one of the worst trades in history in order to make it easier for him to win; just imagine if the NBA sanctioned, & not vetoed the CP3 to Lakers trade, how many more rings would Kobe have won? It's why he chooses to load manage, despite being bigger, stronger, & faster than 99.9% of all players, playing in the least physical era in NBA history, credible suspicion of using PEDs, all while playing absolutely no defense. And finally, it's also why he has to deploy mouthpieces affiliated with his sports agency, & various plants in the media to constantly control & shape narratives.

When u are the face of the league & anoint yourself as the "chosen one" or "king" then you have a responsibility to be a good steward of the game by helping to elevate it for future generations. That is what all-time great players that came before him also had to do; Magic & Bird saved the NBA from collapse; MJ made it globalized, & Kobe expanded on that by becoming the most popular player in China. Not only did LBJ not elevate the game, but u can make a legitimate argument that he actively destroyed it. The NBA has lost close to 50% of its viewership since 2012, which aligns with the prime yrs of his career & he deserves blame for destroying the all-star game as well.

LBJ & the NBA is a cautionary tale for all other sports to understand what can happen when u disproportionately empower your players; the players inevitably become mercenaries that only care about themselves while compromising the integrity of the game. When the players care more about all of the things the game affords them, than the actual game itself, it becomes a very big problem. I hope the pro free market NIL crowd on this forum understands that CFB is also on a similar trajectory, without outside intervention.



Click to expand...

Did he run over your dog or something? I think you are probably proving the point with this 1,000-word take. The only thing missing is blaming LeBron for the war in Iran.

I don't care that much about defending him, but he is a Top 3-5 player of all time and I don't think that is particularly disputable.
 
MikeyCanez said:
Did he run over your dog or something? I think you are probably proving the point with this 1,000-word take. The only thing missing is blaming LeBron for the war in Iran.

I don't care that much about defending him, but he is a Top 3-5 player of all time and I don't think that is particularly disputable.
Click to expand...
If u think I am being unfairly critical of LBJ, then u should be able to refute at least some of what I wrote. At the end of the day the facts are the facts, & it's not about liking or disliking LBJ, since none of us really know him personally. What it's about is making sure we don't move the goalposts, for modern superstar athletes, & hold them to the same standards that players who came before them were held to.

I think his status as a top 10 player all-time is in question, let alone top 5. The only way u can make a top 5 case for LBJ is if the basis of your argument is centered around stats & longevity instead of winning. None of the all-time, pantheon, great level players that he is being compared to were ever as empowered, enabled, played as long, or had the same level of supporting cast that he's had throughout his career, & yet they still managed to win more than him. It's a very real possibility that LBJ is going to end his career playing 25 yrs in the NBA, & winning only 4 championships, with 3 out 4 deserving to have an asterisk besides them, because they are as flimsy & fraudulent as any a top 10 player has won.

@Rellyrell - I know u & me are more or less aligned here, but for discussion's sake please tell the forum if u think any lies were told in this or my previous post. Thank u in advance

 
Last edited:
Trafficante said:
If u think I am being unfairly critical of LBJ, then u should be able to refute at least some of what I wrote. At the end of the day the facts are the facts, & it's not really about liking or disliking LBJ, since none of us really know him personally. What it's about is making sure we don't move the goalposts, for modern superstar athletes, & hold them to the same standards that players who came before them were held to.

I think his status as a top 10 player all-time is in question, let alone top 5. The only way u can make a top 5 case for LBJ is if the basis of your argument is centered around stats & longevity instead of winning. None of the all-time, pantheon, great level players that he is being compared to were ever as empowered, enabled, played as long, or had the same level of supporting cast that he's had throughout his career, & yet they still managed to win more than him. It's a very real possibility that LBJ is going to end his career playing 25 yrs in the NBA, & winning only 4 championships, with 3 out 4 deserving to have an asterisk besides them, because they are as flimsy & fraudulent as any a top 10 player has won.

@Rellyrell - I know u & me are more or less aligned here, but for discussion's sake please tell the forum if u think any lies were told in this or my previous post. Thank u in advance

Click to expand...

I don't think we need to waste our breath going back and forth on this because I ain't gonna change your mind. But I'll do a few bullet points just because some of what you said truly needs to be checked.

- His early Cavs teams had some of the worst supporting cast of any NBA Finals team ever. The only reason they even made the finals was because of him and how weak the East was.

- I have no idea why his titles need asterisks (bubble season aside), but talking about supporting cast without mentioning that Kobe won three of his with maybe the most dominant center in the history of basketball feels a little biased. And it's not like Shaq was drafted and developed by the Lakers...

- I don't know how you can make an argument about the pantheon of great players without using stats...sort of a key part of the sport.

- You blamed him for ruining league viewership and the All-Star game in the same sentence, which is insane.

- Pretending he is the first star player to dictate team decisions, shape narratives through the media and generally try to involve himself in roster decisions is being naive.
 
canes_226 said:
It’s not about the money for Lebron at this stage in his career. He openly said that so this should not a surprise. None of the teams recruiting him were gonna offer the ma
Click to expand...

canes_226 said:
Its not about the money for Lebron at this stage in his career. He openly said that so this should not a surprise. None of the teams recruiting him were gonna offer the max
Click to expand...
It’s always about the money
💰 Other money sources will show up

Go Canes!
 
MikeyCanez said:
I don't think we need to waste our breath going back and forth on this because I ain't gonna change your mind. But I'll do a few bullet points just because some of what you said truly needs to be checked.

- His early Cavs teams had some of the worst supporting cast of any NBA Finals team ever. The only reason they even made the finals was because of him and how weak the East was.

- I have no idea why his titles need asterisks (bubble season aside), but talking about supporting cast without mentioning that Kobe won three of his with maybe the most dominant center in the history of basketball feels a little biased. And it's not like Shaq was drafted and developed by the Lakers...

- I don't know how you can make an argument about the pantheon of great players without using stats...sort of a key part of the sport.

- You blamed him for ruining league viewership and the All-Star game in the same sentence, which is insane.

- Pretending he is the first star player to dictate team decisions, shape narratives through the media and generally try to involve himself in roster decisions is being naive.
Click to expand...

OK; I’m sorry, but I must obliterate this.

1. Shaq, while dominant was immature AF. There’s a reason his relationship soured w Penny & then eventually w Kobe. The addition of Phil is what changed Shaq’s mentality, until his ego got the best of him & Kobe refused to acquiesce to his selfish behavior; u know the same “leader” that said I got injured on company time, so imma have my surgery on company time instead of the off season? & Kobe proved w a guy like Pau, who made exactly one All Star game in his entire career b4 joining LA, that like MJ, give me one add’l star caliber player, & I can win.

2. Can we talk about ‘07? I’ll give you credit for pointing out how weak the East was, but can we really talk about his squad?

•Hughes prior to joining Cavs in ‘06: 22.0 ppg - 1st Team All Def

•Big Z prior to LBJ joining Cavs in ‘04: 17.2 ppg 7.2 rbs - All Star

Now let’s deep dive into 2006-07:

3. Cavs Reg. Season Rotation:
•LBJ: 27.3 ppg
•Hughes: 14.9 ppg
•Big Z: 11.9 ppg
•Gooden: 11.1 ppg
•Pavlovic: 9.0 ppg
•Marshall: 7.0 ppg
•Varejão: 6.8 ppg
•Gibson: 4.6 ppg
•Snow: 4.2 ppg

Cavs Post Season Rotation:
•LBJ: 25.1 ppg (-2.2)
•Big Z: 12.6 ppg (+0.7)
•Gooden: 11.4 (+0.3)
•Hughes: 11.1 (-3.8)
•Pavlovic: 9.2 (+0.2)
•Gibson: 8.3 (+3.7)
•Varejão: 6.0 (-0.8)
•Marshall: 3.5 (-3.5)
•Snow: 1.7 (-2.5)

Net differential in production from regular season to post season (-7.9)

•7th Ranked Net Rated Team
•4th ranked Defensive Team

What about their Finals opponent, SAS?

Reg Seaon Rotation:
•Duncan: 20.0 ppg
•Parker: 18.6 ppg
•Ginoboli: 16.5 ppg
•Finley: 9.0 ppg
•Barry: 8.5 ppg
•White: 8.3 ppg
•Bowens: 6.2 ppg
•Elson: 5.0 ppg
•Bonner: 4.9 ppg
•Udrih: 4.7 ppg
•Oberto: 4.4 ppg
•Horry: 3.9 ppg
•Vaughn: 3.0 ppg

Post Season Rotation:
•Duncan: 22.2 ppg (+2.2)
•Parker: 20.8 ppg (+2.2)
•Ginoboli: 16.7 (+0.2)
•Finley: 11.3 (+.2.3)
•Bowens: 6.5 (+0.3)
•Oberto: 5.6 (+1.2)
•Horry: 4.3 (+0.4)
•Elson: 3.3 (-1.7)
•Barry: 3.1 (-5.4)
•Vaughn: 2.2 (-0.8)
•Bonner: 0.8 (-4.1)
•Udrih: 0.3 (-4.1)

Net differential in production from regular season to post season (-7.7)

•1st Ranked Net Rated Team
•2nd Ranked Defensive Team

Oooooof; doesn’t look like they were that different, huh?

4. One of the biggest lies told in sports is how trash the ‘07 Cavs team was, & the carry job LeBron did. These were former All Stars, All NBA Defenders, double-digit scorers that sacrificed their offensive outputs to play team ball. This was one of the best defensive teams in the NBA all yr, including the playoffs where they ranked 2nd in team defense.

Side Note: It amazes me whether I look at Big Z, Hughes, Jamison, Shaq, Bosh, Wade, Love, Westbrook, etc etc how everyone’s offensive production miraculously drop when they join LBJ. ****, even AD; all of sudden it goes from “These teams can’t be beat,” to “LBJ never has enough help.”

Anyways

Everyone talks about LeBron’s 48 pt job in Game 5 vs. Detroit, yet no one talks about how bad he played in Game 6 & that it was rookie Boobie Gibson, OFF THE BENCH, that went nuclear scoring 19 in the 4th to carry Cle to the W. No one talks about him leading both teams in scoring. Weird. Kinda like no one talks about Kyrie’s game winning 3 or Bosh’s rebound to save the series in Game 6. Ahhhhh, I digress.

5. No one talks about how close the SAS v. Cavs series was, b/c all they focus on is how could LBJ beat Duncan, Parker, & Ginoboli, while neglecting how old & trash this roster was! Guess LBJ has issues w old teams; this roster was filled w journeymen & vet mins. HENCE, y the avg. margin of victory was only 5.5/g for SAS. ****, ppl forget Boobie led Cleveland in scoring Game 1 as LBJ stunk it up.

If LBJ played halfway decent that Finals, maybe Cleveland still doesn’t win, but they r fa sho not getting swept.

6. Stats r a gauge, but they r not the end all to be all. There’s a reason y LBJ supporters skip right to cumulative, career stats vs. per game stats, b/c if we went per game, LBJ’s pedestal becomes lowered. Longevity stats have a place, but they r not the definition.

Is Malone or Kareem a better scorer than MJ?
Is Stockton a better defender than Payton?
Is Stockton a better PG than Magic?
Is Malone a more impactful PF than Duncan?
Is DeRozan a better scorer than Dr J?
Is Westbrook a better overall player than Big O?

So on, & so on. Stats w/o context = empty #’s. Box scores r the most deceiving thing one can look at, which is y eye test is equally as important. If I see a highlight of Kerr hitting a game winning shot, that’s one thing; but if I see MJ draws the double team, pretend to go up w the shot to assist to Kerr for said shot, that’s something different. Yeah, I’ll see MJ’s asst total, but I would have no idea that was the most important asst unless I saw it.

7. I think LeBron is an all time great, but if u don’t think he didn’t helicopter his way on to Mt Rushmore, u’re tripping. He’s had Mike Brown, a championship asst coach, & now champion HC leading him in Cle, couldn’t do anything. He was w a great organization in Miami & bailed on them for what?

Sometimes I wonder if LBJ would’ve been more patient & won organically allowing teams to grow around him vs. trading player after player & pick after pick to try to microwave chips, how many would he truly have?

Do u know y the 70’s Lakers only won, one despise all that talent? Or the 08 Celtics only won, one? Or why teams like the Rockets of 99 or Brooklyn of 22, Lakers of 22 never won? B/c inorganic super teams gets u no more than 2 chips, & most of the time it’s either one & done or none at all.
 
The chasing it narrative is bs lmao every team he was interested in would’ve been the favorite bc of a 42 yr old LEBRON. That’s why he’s the GOAT by a mile. I know he didn’t pick ur team and it hurts if he was as washed up as MJ on the Wizards the haters would just treat it like an old man farewell tour like Jordan… at 37 🤔
 
Back
Top