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Kyle Shanahan

TemplarCane said:
The NFL is a different animal.

NFL players are the best in the world, making millions of dollars a year, even tens of millions. The best players approach the game as a 24x7x365 job. They're not limited to 20 hours a week. Teams operate with the same financial restraints and framework.
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Lots of legendary college head coaches that have been terrible in their first few years.

Did you see Nick Saban's record at Mich St?
 
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cyrez8 said:
I'm a 49ers fan. He was hot garbage in year 1 and look at the performance his team just put on MNF. To be frank, he was hot garbage in year 2 as well but has the team shining in year 3.

Manny has failed miserably this year thus far but we're a decent kicker from being undefeated or at worst 4-1. Think about that for a second.

Changes need to be made: Butch Barry who is a joke and this is on Diaz because he let Enos hand pick him from his CMU days. But this is Manny's first year ever as a HC and I think it would be prudent to reserve judgment on him at least until year 2. And when I say reserve judgment, I'm not saying avoiding being critical bc like I just said, Manny's looked like a HC way in over his head.

However, is he capable of learning and bettering himself and his team? I still think so. Only time will tell.
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Interesting post. It is always hypothetically conceivable that someone can improve (and you make examples further down the thread). The problem so far is that it's not just a few isolated problems. It's almost everything.

It's:

-the penalties (worst in cfb)
-sacks allowed (worst in cfb)
-third down conversion (almost worst in cfb)
-Defense's lack of pass rush relative to prior years
-offensive line's inability to run block besides the sacks allowed above
-offensive playcalling which does not adjust to our weaknesses and is bull-headed.
-defensive playcalling which is a clear downgrade from the last few years, and that DC is in charge of it all.
-continuous failure of the defense to shut teams down in crucial times at end of games
-place kicking/field goal kicking has gotten worse
-Coaches selection: most of the coaches hired/kept have been crap so far: Barry, Patke, Banda is worthless, Baker sucks. Stubblefield has been a surprise IMO and not sure what to think on Hickson and Field. Enos has been solid as a qb coach but mediocre at best as a playcaller. He's basically been a notch above the Richts last year as a play caller.
-Finally, we make first time starting quarterbacks and mediocre to bad teams know and either almost or actually beat us.
 
cyrez8 said:
I'm a 49ers fan. He was hot garbage in year 1 and look at the performance his team just put on MNF. To be frank, he was hot garbage in year 2 as well but has the team shining in year 3.

Manny has failed miserably this year thus far but we're a decent kicker from being undefeated or at worst 4-1. Think about that for a second.

Changes need to be made: Butch Barry who is a joke and this is on Diaz because he let Enos hand pick him from his CMU days. But this is Manny's first year ever as a HC and I think it would be prudent to reserve judgment on him at least until year 2. And when I say reserve judgment, I'm not saying avoiding being critical bc like I just said, Manny's looked like a HC way in over his head.

However, is he capable of learning and bettering himself and his team? I still think so. Only time will tell.
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"decent kicker from being undefeated or at worst 4-1. "

And what??? We woukd still be the same **** show just waiting to be exposed. FALSE HOPE.
We just got beat by a historically bad VT and you want to talk about how we coukd be 4-1 as if it would mean anything!
 
LOL.

-Kyle is the son of a SB winning coach, and learned from to Bruce Arians at his first gig.
-Bill Belichick had two tutorials under arguably one of the greatest football coaches in NFL history in Bill Parcels
-Nick Saban also learned under Bill Belichick, and was a DC for the NFL prior to becoming a football coach at a basketball school
-Meyers cut his teeth at the G5 level, twice, (at the time, Utah was an upper tier G5 team) before finally coming over to a P5 school
-Bill Walsh was a successful college coach before taking over a **** poor organization w/ no championship history and made them remarkably better each season.

Literally there is nothing similar about your examples, OP.

1. Who did Manny learn under?
2. What previous NFL gig did Manny have?
3. What previous head coaching experience did Manny have at a lower tier level?
4. Is Manny the son of a former championship head coach that he learned under?
5. Did Manny take over a trash team? If so, then why in the f did he not make complete changes and surround himself w/ great football minds?

I can't w/ these threads. lol. Thank you Mrs. Diaz, you can go back to your manicure now.
 
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RemainMack said:
Interesting post. It is always hypothetically conceivable that someone can improve (and you make examples further down the thread). The problem so far is that it's not just a few isolated problems. It's almost everything.

It's:

-the penalties (worst in cfb)
-sacks allowed (worst in cfb)
-third down conversion (almost worst in cfb)
-Defense's lack of pass rush relative to prior years
-offensive line's inability to run block besides the sacks allowed above
-offensive playcalling which does not adjust to our weaknesses and is bull-headed.
-defensive playcalling which is a clear downgrade from the last few years, and that DC is in charge of it all.
-continuous failure of the defense to shut teams down in crucial times at end of games
-place kicking/field goal kicking has gotten worse
-Coaches selection: most of the coaches hired/kept have been crap so far: Barry, Patke, Banda is worthless, Baker sucks. Stubblefield has been a surprise IMO and not sure what to think on Hickson and Field. Enos has been solid as a qb coach but mediocre at best as a playcaller. He's basically been a notch above the Richts last year as a play caller.
-Finally, we make first time starting quarterbacks and mediocre to bad teams know and either almost or actually beat us.
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No question that Manny's start has been abysmal. There are a ton of glaring issues and a ton of work needed to fix them and it won't be easy. I'm just not ready to count the man out yet. He was able to learn and better himself to go from being a video intern to a top notch college DC.

My point is that being a successful HC takes time. There is a ton to learn. There are a ton of failures to experience. There is no substitute for being a head coach and you aren't amazing at it starting from day 1 or year 1 no matter who you are.

Manny's 1st 5 games have been an F-. Does that mean he's an F HC? History and the truth of the matter says no. Will he be an A caliber HC? Only time will tell.
 
cyrez8 said:
I'm a 49ers fan. He was hot garbage in year 1 and look at the performance his team just put on MNF. To be frank, he was hot garbage in year 2 as well but has the team shining in year 3.

Manny has failed miserably this year thus far but we're a decent kicker from being undefeated or at worst 4-1. Think about that for a second.

Changes need to be made: Butch Barry who is a joke and this is on Diaz because he let Enos hand pick him from his CMU days. But this is Manny's first year ever as a HC and I think it would be prudent to reserve judgment on him at least until year 2. And when I say reserve judgment, I'm not saying avoiding being critical bc like I just said, Manny's looked like a HC way in over his head.

However, is he capable of learning and bettering himself and his team? I still think so. Only time will tell.
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We could be undefeated but we are not. Our coaching is so bad, we are lucky we have such talent or we would be killed
 
Rellyrell said:
LOL.

-Kyle is the son of a SB winning coach, and learned from to Bruce Arians at his first gig.
-Bill Belichick had two tutorials under arguably one of the greatest football coaches in NFL history in Bill Parcels
-Nick Saban also learned under Bill Belichick, and was a DC for the NFL prior to becoming a football coach at a basketball school
-Meyers cut his teeth at the G5 level, twice, before being considered (at the time, Utah was an upper tier G5 team), before finally coming over to a P5 school
-Bill Walsh was a successful college coach before taking over a **** poor organization w/ no championship history and made them remarkably better each season.

Literally there is nothing similar about your examples, OP.

1. Who did Manny learn under? Mickey Andrews, Bobby Bowden, Chuck Amato, Dan Mullen, Mack Brown, Skip Holtz, Mark Richt
2. What previous NFL gig did Manny have? Nick Saban had a previous NFL gig?
3. What previous head coaching experience did Manny have at a lower tier level? What previous HC experience did Dabo have?
4. Is Manny the son of a former championship head coach that he learned under? How many son's for former championship head coaches are out there?
5. Did Manny take over a trash team? If so, then why in the f did he not make complete changes and surround himself w/ great football minds? He cut the entire offensive side of the ball and his defensive side of the ball was highly ranked so he carried over continuity. It's clear that Baker was a terrible hire as well and 5 games into the season, he's already publicly announced he's getting more involved.

I can't w/ these threads. lol. Thank you Mrs. Diaz, you can go back to your manicure now.
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See my bolded responses.
 
cyrez8 said:
See my bolded responses.
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Blood, you are helllllla reaching. Stop it. He didn't learn chit from Bowden, Andrews (He was a GA for one season at FSU). He didn't learn chit from Dan Mullen. Mack Brown fired him. And are you really going to use Amato, Holtz, and a washed out Richt?? Then yeah, that's exactly why we are in the predicament we're in.

Yes, Nick Saban was the DC for Bill Belichick.

Dabo served as an interim head coach w/ success, prior to being offered a full time gig at Clemson

The point was not regarding how many coaches have fathers that are NFL champions v. debunking your theory that Shanahan and Manny could be the same.

He cut the entire offensive side of the ball and replaced them w/ more unqualified staff members.
-He replaced Searles who had P5 experience w/ Butch Barry, who not only came from the G5, but was the assistant of an offensive line in Tampa Bay that got increasingly worst on a yearly basis, giving up more sacks each season.
-He replaced a RB coach who had Melvin Gordon his resume, for a RB coach who has Gordon Fisherman on his resume.
-He replaced a WR coach that could at least recruit, w/ a WR coach who has the personality of a rock and have not put one WR in the NFL in his entire coaching career
-He replaced an archaic OC w/ an archaic OC
-He replaced a ST coach who could recruit w/ a ST coach who not only can't recruit, but legitimately sucks at his job, and we're wondering how tf did he even get here?
-He replaced him at DC w/ a DC from a G5 conference

You clearly don't understand or grasp the ineptitude that's going on around here. So stop using Dabo, stop using Meyers, stop using Bill Belichick, stop using Nick Saban as a litmus test or a justification to give Manny a chance. He's been here since 2016, and he did a wholllllllllllllllllle lotta talking about a standard being held here, and how this is TNM. Don't say chit and not back up chit, period.
 
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Rellyrell said:
Blood, you are helllllla reaching. Stop it. He didn't learn chit from Bowden, Andrews (He was a GA for one season at FSU). He didn't learn chit from Dan Mullen. Mack Brown fired him. And are you really going to use Amato, Holtz, and a washed out Richt?? Then yeah, that's exactly why we are in the predicament we're in.

Yes, Nick Saban was the DC for Bill Belichick.

Dabo served as an interim head coach w/ success, prior to being offered a full time gig at Clemson

The point was not regarding how many coaches have fathers that are NFL champions v. debunking your theory that Shanahan and Manny could be the same.

He cut the entire offensive side of the ball and replaced them w/ more unqualified staff members.
-He replaced Searles who had P5 experience w/ Butch Barry, who not only came from the G5, but was the assistant of an offensive line in Tampa Bay that got increasingly worst on a yearly basis, giving up more sacks each season.
-He replaced a RB coach who had Melvin Gordon his resume, for a RB coach who has Gordon Fisherman on his resume.
-He replaced a WR coach that could at least recruit, w/ a WR coach who has the personality of a rock and have not put one WR in the NFL in his entire coaching career
-He replaced an archaic OC w/ an archaic OC
-He replaced a ST coach who could recruit w/ a ST coach who not only can't recruit, but legitimately sucks at his job, and we're wondering how tf did he even get here?
-He replaced him at DC w/ a DC from a G5 conference

You clearly don't understand or grasp the ineptitude that's going on around here. So stop using Dabo, stop using Meyers, stop using Bill Belichick, stop using Nick Saban as a litmus test or a justification to give Manny a chance. He's been here since 2016, and he did a wholllllllllllllllllle lotta talking about a standard being held here, and how this is TNM. Don't say chit and not back up chit, period.
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You are missing the simple point which is that premier HCs are not made overnight.

I'm not comparing Manny to Nick Saban or anyone. Manny very well may get fired in year 3 if drastic things don't change in all 3 phases.

I'm saying that calling for Manny to be fired after 5 games is beyond crazy. You would be the same guys calling for Dabo's head. He had an extremely subpar 1st 3 years as a HC before being the legendary HC that he is right now.

Do I think Manny is going to be succeed? I honestly have no idea. I'm extremely disappointed at these 1st 5 games. At the same time, I realize it is his 1st 5 games ever as a head coach and we're a decent kicker from being 5-0 or 4-1 at worst.
 
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cyrez8 said:
You are missing the simple point which is that premier HCs are not made overnight.

I'm not comparing Manny to Nick Saban or anyone. Manny very well may get fired in year 3 if drastic things don't change in all 3 phases.

I'm saying that calling for Manny to be fired after 5 games is beyond crazy. You would be the same guys calling for Dabo's head. He had an extremely subpar 1st 3 years as a HC before being the legendary HC that he is right now.

Do I think Manny is going to be succeed? I honestly have no idea. I'm extremely disappointed at these 1st 5 games. At the same time, I realize it is his 1st 5 games ever as a head coach and we're a decent kicker from being 5-0 or 4-1 at worst.
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I feel where you are coming from, and I typically use the 3 yr criteria. My concern is Manny's tenure while here. My concern is his rep around the circle that he's all flash w/ no substance. My concern is that Manny's inability to be a recruiter/salesman to kids he will need to make our program better, and the likelihood he will keep us stagnant.

I wouldn't have a problem if we weren't 0-2 after bye weeks. I wouldn't have a problem if we didn't look inept in all 3 levels against inferior teams, including a G5 opponent. I wouldn't be concerned if we are looking less and less like a disciplined football team each week.

These are the things that are inexcusable for a coach, a coach who said he, inadvertently, 'I know what's wrong w/ the team...it's the other side of the ball, not my side', but how he moved when he made staff changes.

You see, this is a product of TNM. People want him gone b/c he put on a show to get the folks hyped. Instead of cruising on Yatchs, invading Nike Clinics, and hash tagging TNM, he should've been focusing on making sure this team was completely prepared by tapping in daily w/ Feeley. Clowns put on shows, which is why we laughed at Willie T.
 
cyrez8 said:
Lots of legendary college head coaches that have been terrible in their first few years.

Did you see Nick Saban's record at Mich St?
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Do you know what happened and what was going on with MSU at that time?


Did you do any research?
 
cyrez8 said:
What it takes can't be learned? What?! The idea that great head coaches are just born out of thin air is nuts.

Let's talk about Bill Belichick some more. How was his first head coaching stint? Do you think he learned anything before his second opportunity?

Tons of people have referenced Dabo's first year.

What about Bill Walsh?

What about Urban who finished 3rd in a pathetic conference two years in a row at BG?

Have you seen Nick Saban's record his first 4 years at Michigan St? It's embarrassing

The list can go on and on

Will Manny succeed? Who knows. But calling for his head after his 5th game coaching is premature and shows a total lack of understanding in regards to what it takes to be a successful HC.
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I've always enjoyed your posts Cyrez and agree with virtually everything above. But, this offseason will tell me a lot about who Manny is and what he will become. I'll give him a bogey for this coaching staff because it's his first shot being a HC and maybe even he didn't realize how big this was, but if there aren't MAJOR changes from top to bottom after this season is over, he won't get a second chance from me or many of the other die hard fans. It will go downhill quick next year.
 
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cyrez8 said:
Lots of legendary college head coaches that have been terrible in their first few years.

Did you see Nick Saban's record at Mich St?
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Yes, Saban was just above .500 his first four seasons. So was the previous coach for the previous four seasons. Saban wasn’t terrible. He won a fair share of games against Top 10 teams, including over Notre Dame, Michigan and Ohio State. He built them up, only for the next coach to tank.

MSU has always been a difficult place to recruit and win. This is why D’Antonio is so well regarded.

His record at LSU wasn’t much different. 8-5 year 1, with a loss to UAB included. Spurrier beat Saban’s *** twice, but 28+ both times. 8-5 record Year 3 as well.

Maybe what Saban learned was he needed to have the best players.
 
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