KNIGHTON

[TheOriginalCane]

I think if the coaches were sitting solo at a table and not mingling then that would seem to be a basic business development issue. I’m saying this in a vacuum as I have no idea what, if any, other dynamics are in play.

EXACTLY.

Salesmen should sell. ABC. Always Be Closing.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

We don't get the elite deerfield kids, why would they waste their time on 2022 kids. They are SEC bound, we all know it, the staff probably knows it too.

I'm not saying that you don't have a valid viewpoint or opinion.

But I also don't understand why we would surrender 3 years in advance. I do think we need to make more of an effort. Even in the SEC, there is coaching turnover. We need to provide a legitimate choice, and not just fly the white flag for 3 years.

 

[gogeta4]

1. I'm not sure how to answer that. Are you referring to getting on kids early when you say "early offers"? Like in reference to the two 2022 kids I have?

2. Golden's staff actually wasn't that bad. Paul Williams was a goof and Golden came across as a used car salesman but Hurley, D'Onofrio and a couple other guys were cool dudes. (just turns out they couldn't coach) They actually attempted to make the HS guys feel at home though, at least in the handful of times that I was there. Their main issue in regards to recruiting was EVALUATION. And Diaz staff as a whole may not be bad. But having a coaching clinic at your school, and not doing a good job of "chopping it up" with coaches, that's not a good look. Even Golden's staff made sure they walked the room and talked ball with the HS coaches. Now, I give credit to Miami's staff for even having a UM coaching clinic. That was cool. But that **** is common. It's nothing forward-thinking. It's the way you interact WITH the coaches during these events that really matters. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY WERE BAD, they just weren't as detailed or personable as other staffs I've been around. And from what I've been told, this is how they are with the kids sometimes.

3. Our Head Coach plans to communicate these issues with Miami. He said it yesterday. He wants to have a "sit down" with them. We're all tired of the anti-Miami stereotype and the only way to fix it is to get Miami to recruit our school better. Period. There's no reason that they shouldn't be on top of our young prospects right now while Bama, Auburn, etc already are. Makes no sense. They're already behind with two elite 2022 kids.

4. The fact that he's only been on the job for 6 months and we're just coming off of a terrible season should only make their staff MORE AGGRESSIVE. People in here have said that "UCF's staff has to be like that because they're UCF." Well no ****, they're trying to build something! Miami should be that way right now as well! They've been a joke for years and have a lot of catching up to do. Sitting around UCF's staff (for example) you get the sense that they're hungry. They're leaving no stone un-turned. Again, I could explain in more detail but then I'll just be accused of wanting attention, when that's not what it's about. It's about creating relationships that may pay dividends.

*With the bolded there is reason though.

- Auburn, Bama and the rest are all tossing around "non committable offers" to these kids. The love they are showing is FAKE as well. They arent "on" these kids early they send out Blind offers. When Um does that locally it will be a problem...as you have already stated it almost was a problem with Restrepo. UM has only recently started with these non commitable offers i guess to catch up on what the other schools do. We would be fried if we did the same.


* You are at Deerfield. They havent sent us anything since Crudup who is likely a granddaddy now. You have had players troll Um, disrespect UM and essentially your basically Palm Beach. literally 2 exits away. Deerfield isnt remotely a um feeder school will never ever be regardless of who we stroke over there. They are sending kids everywhere. So its good to establish relationships with DB but as of late we have literlly have better experiences with our resources in Duval County which is GATOR COUNTRY.

- I'm in agreement we dont have a coaching staff of great recruiters though. But im guessing its dependent on time and place,etc. Because i know for sure i was acknowledge numerous times when i went to Paradise Camp last year and im not even a coach. Came with 1 player i brought there, and was acknowledged by everyone down to Richt in the parking lot while leaving.

Cooney and DVD are both friendly/social guys as well but im bias because DVD is the homie.

But from what ive seen Deerfield Beach coaches might recruit better than our staff. So you maybe use to something else Coach (clowning on yall)

 

[TheOriginalCane]

These kids are still freshmen in high school. I understand that relationships must be built over time, but the expectations need to be grounded in reality. Time and resources aren't unlimited, and certain $ec schools have recruiting budgets that eclipse anything Miami has (and which include a small army of recruiting analysts and support staff to facilitate these relationships).

Now, if these Deerfield kids are blue chip prospects and haven't heard from UM by the end of February 2020 (after the 2020 class is wrapped up), then that's a problem. But being "late" on a couple of kids because UM hasn't reached out about them before the start of their sophomore year? C'mon, man...

I think that what he is saying is that it doesn't cost much, or take a lot of time, to call, write, or text. Especially since these kids are one area code away. Same time zone. Same interstate.

You mention "recruiting budget". Sure, we may not have Saban's chopper. But the work that is done 3 years out is usually the low-paid staff and interns who set up the communication. And I do think it is a good investment to hit the SoFla kids early.

Some people mention (and @caneinorlando is very frequent with it) that Butch was probably our last dominant scout/identifier/recruiter/developer of great talent. Well, he and Pete had old-fashioned 5x7 notecards on all of the SoFla talent YEARS in advance. I don't care what it takes, costs, or involves, we have to get on SoFla talent early and often, no matter how much competition the SEC (and Clemson) are going to throw at us.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

It doesn’t matter that folks are outright lying to you, and you think you’re looking out for the kids even when you fall for their lies.

JFC dude.

We get it. We know kissing *** helps. It helps in every facet of life. Usually *** kissers are the quickest to take shortcuts and throw others under the bus for their own gain. Just cuz it’s the way things are done doesn’t mean it’s how they should be done.

Miami needs to be more detail oriented by reaching out to high school staffs on and off campus. That’s literally all you had to say. Instead you made it about yourself.

I don't think that's what he did.

And if someone wants a better analogy than "chicks", compare it to fraternity rush.

"Detail-oriented" is one thing. Sitting in your own little group and failing to go out and make connections when you are in a big HS coaching function is something else entirely.

 

[Papo]

Coach Macho, I like what you always bring to the site, always informative. I also believe you are a Cane fan and bleed orange and green but I feel like the past coaching staffs and even the current staff have been left at the alter to many times in the past with Deerfield.
Deep wounds on the U side and I have a gut feeling that the more things change the more they stay the same. As a Cane fan and a coach, why don't you break that cycle and get ONE elite player to go to the U. Become the better man and in return you make your mark. Just saying my brother....

 

[DadeBaby]

These kids are still freshmen in high school. I understand that relationships must be built over time, but the expectations need to be grounded in reality. Time and resources aren't unlimited, and certain $ec schools have recruiting budgets that eclipse anything Miami has (and which include a small army of recruiting analysts and support staff to facilitate these relationships).

Now, if these Deerfield kids are blue chip prospects and haven't heard from UM by the end of February 2020 (after the 2020 class is wrapped up), then that's a problem. But being "late" on a couple of kids because UM hasn't reached out about them before the start of their sophomore year? C'mon, man...

Doesn’t make sense, we are in their back yards.

This is what @coachmacho is talking about.

It doesn’t take money. All it takes is a phone call to find out about the baddest 12 year old on the park.

Theses same high school coaches are the ones recruiting them to there high schools and who have relationships built with the pee wee coaches.

Manny has a job to do #fencearoundsofl .
I think Manny is playing reverse psychology and banking on the on field success to pull the top talented kids.
This approach may very well work, but recruiting is definitely a deficiency of his so He better be on the MONEY-

 

[Dhatguy]

Chick's isn't a good analogy. Often they respond to the guys that ignore them or their family dislikes. The nice guy gets cucked.

You just ain’t got no game if you can relate to that lol or ya ugly

 

[Canes1968]

LOL. So yall can attack my coaching staff and my kids, calling us traders and bag chasers....but the minute I tell yall what's REALLY going on I'm being unprofessional and catty?

Yall something else. LOL

We are fans. That’s what we do. You are in the profession. You should always handle these things professionally instead of getting caught up in the drama.

 

[Cribby]

*With the bolded there is reason though.

- Auburn, Bama and the rest are all tossing around "non committable offers" to these kids. The love they are showing is FAKE as well. They arent "on" these kids early they send out Blind offers. When Um does that locally it will be a problem...as you have already stated it almost was a problem with Restrepo. UM has only recently started with these non commitable offers i guess to catch up on what the other schools do. We would be fried if we did the same.


* You are at Deerfield. They havent sent us anything since Crudup who is likely a granddaddy now. You have had players troll Um, disrespect UM and essentially your basically Palm Beach. literally 2 exits away. Deerfield isnt remotely a um feeder school will never ever be regardless of who we stroke over there. They are sending kids everywhere. So its good to establish relationships with DB but as of late we have literlly have better experiences with our resources in Duval County which is GATOR COUNTRY.

- I'm in agreement we dont have a coaching staff of great recruiters though. But im guessing its dependent on time and place,etc. Because i know for sure i was acknowledge numerous times when i went to Paradise Camp last year and im not even a coach. Came with 1 player i brought there, and was acknowledged by everyone down to Richt in the parking lot while leaving.

Cooney and DVD are both friendly/social guys as well but im bias because DVD is the homie.

But from what ive seen Deerfield Beach coaches might recruit better than our staff. So you maybe use to something else Coach (clowning on yall)

Not sure why you always get in your feelings about the FACTS regarding Deerfield .... that UM hasn't gotten a top notch player from there in a LONG time.

I realize you are now on the staff there and hopefully with Fields we can make headway with some of the younger guys but until an actual top player from Deerfield goes to Miami then the overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence is that Deerfield is the problem will be the talking point.

If your answer is we suck and don't recruit well then why have we had success at a lot of other schools in Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach in the last 15+ years but none at Deerfield?

Bingo.

This dude acting like the Deerfield and being anti UM is like Sasquatch or Bigfoot talk lmao.

No....I have years and years of all the data I need to see. On top of things I’ve heard from people I trust more than an actual coach at DF.

But but but it’s because we suck , yet the kid this thread is about is now leaning FSU. Which is a total **** show and a coach on his last leg.

But I’ll just go back to just reading the commentary, I’ll just roll my pants up because the bs is getting deep.

 

[No_Fly_Zone]

I think that what he is saying is that it doesn't cost much, or take a lot of time, to call, write, or text. Especially since these kids are one area code away. Same time zone. Same interstate.

You mention "recruiting budget". Sure, we may not have Saban's chopper. But the work that is done 3 years out is usually the low-paid staff and interns who set up the communication. And I do think it is a good investment to hit the SoFla kids early.

Some people mention (and @caneinorlando is very frequent with it) that Butch was probably our last dominant scout/identifier/recruiter/developer of great talent. Well, he and Pete had old-fashioned 5x7 notecards on all of the SoFla talent YEARS in advance. I don't care what it takes, costs, or involves, we have to get on SoFla talent early and often, no matter how much competition the SEC (and Clemson) are going to throw at us.

I'm not saying recruiting doesn't need to be done years' out, I'm saying people (fans/recruits/coaches) need to temper their expectations.

Time is the most scarce resource, but make no mistake, man hours to identify, evaluate, and perform due diligence on recruits is the biggest disparity between UM's recruiting budget and schools like Alabaga. If UM has 15 people on staff working 50 hours a week solely on recruiting, that's 750 hours per week. If Alabaga has 45 staffers doing the same thing, that 2250 hours per week. At the end of the year (assuming fifty weeks worked by all), that's 112,500 man hours for recruiting for Alabaga vs. 37,500 man hours for Miami. That's a difference of 75K man hours.

And regardless of where those kids are located, you still need to do your due diligence as a staff. Identify potential talent. Evaluate that talent. Perform due diligence on the recruit (including investigating character, grades, family, etc...). That all takes time, and it is happening in various phases over multiple classes at once (and at the same time that coaches are working on developing the players currently on the roster and trying to win football games).

As far as the Butch comparison, I agree that he was our last truly dominant recruiter. Butch may have had one of the all-time best eyes for talent of any UM coach, and his track record developing that talent at UM was excellent. But I honestly do not believe he could have done it as easily in this era. Advances in the internet, data storage, social media, and telecommunications have made the physical distance from Tuscaloosa to Broward or Miami-Dade County less important than ever. Back in Butch's day, in-person evaluations during high school football games were the norm. Low definition video on a CD was available, too, if you were lucky. Today, you can have an entire season's worth of game film uploaded onto the cloud and downloaded in the time it takes to get a sandwich from Jimmy Johns. Technology has blunted the advantage of having "talent in your backyard" (especially if that "talent" has no loyalty to or love for the program).

There are literally thousands of "ranked" recruits in the 2019, 2020, and 2021 class (plus all of the unranked kids staffs need to do their due diligence on... because rankings change and aren't the end-all-be-all). Those kids (and classes) are all going to have more time allocated to them before 2022 (just like 2022 will have more time allocated than 2023). 2019 got checked off the list this past February. It's no coincidence that shortly thereafter, we all saw an uptick in 2021 kids getting evaluated and offered. When 2020 is signed, sealed, and delivered in February 2020, I'm sure we'll see a similar uptick in 2022 evaluations and offers. It's a question of prioritizing the nearer future over the more distant future, and allocating man hours to reflect that prioritization.

That's the game.

 

[calinative umstudent]

IF Macho is 100% right, holy crap what are you doing posting this in a public forum?

If he’s not, well...

What he said happened is likely true, I doubt he's just 100% lying.... His analysis of it is what we should 100% doubt.

 

[No_Fly_Zone]

Doesn’t make sense, we are in their back yards.

This is what @coachmacho is talking about.

It doesn’t take money. All it takes is a phone call to find out about the baddest 12 year old on the park.

Theses same high school coaches are the ones recruiting them to there high schools and who have relationships built with the pee wee coaches.

Manny has a job to do #fencearoundsofl .
I think Manny is playing reverse psychology and banking on the on field success to pull the top talented kids.
This approach may very well work, but recruiting is definitely a deficiency of his so He better be on the MONEY-

Time = money, young blood. Who is making that call? They aren't doing it for free, right? What other demands and responsibilities are on their time? What other things can/should they be doing with that time?

We are talking about the time-value of money, and opportunity costs. Understanding these concepts provides insight into any decision-making process.

 

[Zanecane]

When you see @Coach Macho involved in a thread...

 

[calinative umstudent]

It doesn’t matter that folks are outright lying to you, and you think you’re looking out for the kids even when you fall for their lies.

JFC dude.

We get it. We know kissing *** helps. It helps in every facet of life. Usually *** kissers are the quickest to take shortcuts and throw others under the bus for their own gain. Just cuz it’s the way things are done doesn’t mean it’s how they should be done.

Miami needs to be more detail oriented by reaching out to high school staffs on and off campus. That’s literally all you had to say. Instead you made it about yourself.

I agree with this.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I'm not saying recruiting doesn't need to be done years' out, I'm saying people (fans/recruits/coaches) need to temper their expectations.

Time is the most scarce resource, but make no mistake, man hours to identify, evaluate, and perform due diligence on recruits is the biggest disparity between UM's recruiting budget and schools like Alabaga. If UM has 15 people on staff working 50 hours a week solely on recruiting, that's 750 hours per week. If Alabaga has 45 staffers doing the same thing, that 2250 hours per week. At the end of the year (assuming fifty weeks worked by all), that's 112,500 man hours for recruiting for Alabaga vs. 37,500 man hours for Miami. That's a difference of 75K man hours.

And regardless of where those kids are located, you still need to do your due diligence as a staff. Identify potential talent. Evaluate that talent. Perform due diligence on the recruit (including investigating character, grades, family, etc...). That all takes time, and it is happening in various phases over multiple classes at once (and at the same time that coaches are working on developing the players currently on the roster and trying to win football games).

As far as the Butch comparison, I agree that he was our last truly dominant recruiter. Butch may have had one of the all-time best eyes for talent of any UM coach, and his track record developing that talent at UM was excellent. But I honestly do not believe he could have done it as easily in this era. Advances in the internet, data storage, social media, and telecommunications have made the physical distance from Tuscaloosa to Broward or Miami-Dade County less important than ever. Back in Butch's day, in-person evaluations during high school football games were the norm. Low definition video on a CD was available, too, if you were lucky. Today, you can have an entire season's worth of game film uploaded onto the cloud and downloaded in the time it takes to get a sandwich from Jimmy Johns. Technology has blunted the advantage of having "talent in your backyard" (especially if that "talent" has no loyalty to or love for the program).

There are literally thousands of "ranked" recruits in the 2019, 2020, and 2021 class (plus all of the unranked kids staffs need to do their due diligence on... because rankings change and aren't the end-all-be-all). Those kids (and classes) are all going to have more time allocated to them before 2022 (just like 2022 will have more time allocated than 2023). 2019 got checked off the list this past February. It's no coincidence that shortly thereafter, we all saw an uptick in 2021 kids getting evaluated and offered. When 2020 is signed, sealed, and delivered in February 2020, I'm sure we'll see a similar uptick in 2022 evaluations and offers. It's a question of prioritizing the nearer future over the more distant future, and allocating man hours to reflect that prioritization.

That's the game.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you wrote.

I would simply say this. Remembering kids' names, tracking them for 4 years, sending occasional communication, and finding out ways to "build relationships" (camps, going to football games, "bump contact", etc.) do not rely on HD videos and thousands of hours of staff time.

I do agree, the game has changed. But even a method that Butch used (notecards) carries value. Butch was not only tracking the videotape of gameplay, he was taking notes on the feedback of coaches, administrators, other parents, etc. as to work habits and characteristics.

And this is one of those times when I think that what Coach Macho says actually has an ADDITIONAL dimension that he did not mention. Yes, it would be great if UM could get all of the assistants to have positive things to say. But we also need to hear what the assistant coaches have to say ABOUT THE PLAYERS. If you read what Coach said, he indicated that there was at least one situation where Manny was alerted to NOT pursue a particular recruit, and this is important intel to have, that, say, guys like Saban and Dabo might not be privy to.

Even if "today's recruiting" takes a lot more man-hours, we have to get back to the things that Butch examined. It wasn't just that Butch's eye for talent was perfect. If so, he'd dominate at every recruiting stop. When Butch was doing it at UM, he had the entire SoFla community feeding him information, and that HELPED HIM to identify the "right" talent, because there is plenty of talent in SoFla.

It's a team effort. And Manny needs to get his coaches to become extensions of him, talking to everyone who will listen. Go back and re-examine what Butch did. He was the MASTER of intel. He took it too far with the Browns (read what Browns players had to say about Butch using James Jackson to report back to him). But when it is handled properly, it's the intel and communication that are the keys to identifying and recruiting the best SoFla players, not thousands of hours of video.

 

[moshated305]

Listen...
I don't need or want anybody to sweat me. But I was standing around the entire UM coaching staff (with DF gear on) and not one person engaged me. ****, one time I was standing there with Knighton! That's a problem. I never felt welcomed there. Meanwhile I go to UCF for a few hours and one minute I'm eating wings with Josh Huepel, the next minute I'm rummaging through Randy Shannon's refrigerator and later I left with two coach's cell phone numbers.

That's how you develop relationships. And if I have to explain that to you people then you are absolutely clueless on how recruiting works.

As I explained in another thread, Miami's staff just simply doesn't know how to show love like other staffs do. It doesn't feel organic.

This stuff is beyond concerning. Someone need to get this to Diaz. We already knew we have guys on staff who aren't strong recruiters like Rumph and Banda but this **** is worse than I thought.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Time = money, young blood. Who is making that call? They aren't doing it for free, right? What other demands and responsibilities are on their time? What other things can/should they be doing with that time?

We are talking about the time-value of money, and opportunity costs. Understanding these concepts provides insight into any decision-making process.

@Coach Macho is saying that you don't have to pay a staffer to make that phone call IF UM'S ASSISTANT COACHES ARE HAVING THOSE CONVERSATIONS OVER LUNCH AT A COACHING EVENT.

He is saying that if UM coaches don't sit at their own table, talking about housing costs in Coral Gables, and if they go out and mix with the SoFla assistant coaches, they can find out who all the best young players are.

The HS assistants are obviously monitoring that stuff, because we all know about how HS players "transfer" in SoFla.

 

[TheToadSage]

Lol Deerfield Beach

I'm just gonna keep it 100 and tell you like this... (even if it makes me sound like a d!ck)

A lot of y'all don't know WTF you're talking about. Y'all be so deep into your fanhood that you can't see the actual light. Our staff does not recruit well. I just spent all day Saturday at UCF and those coaches can recruit better than ours. I've been to Miami campus several times and never felt the love that UCF showed me on Saturday. That's a problem. And as Miami fans none of y'all are objective. You refuse to believe what I'm telling you because it's not what you want to hear.

All the times I've been to Miami wearing Deerfield gear and not once has a coach walked up to me and introduced himself. Meanwhile I'm at UCF, and I have everybody and their mother coming by my table to say hello. Two of their coaches even sat down and ate wings with us while talking X's and O's. Two of their coaches gave me their cell phone numbers and told me to call them anytime if they had any questions. NEVER happened at Miami. I went to a Miami coaching clinic and during the Lunch Period, all of the Miami coaches sat with each other at a table, secluded from the high school guys. Why wouldn't they sit with the High School coaches?! Clueless as fvck. That's why. Zero clue on how to develop valuable relationships.

That's how good recruiters develop relationships. I might just be a slapd!ck with Deerfield gear on. Who knows? I might be the **** water boy. But I also might have a really good rapport with a future five star that you're recruiting. And you developing a relationship with me might help in that recruitment. That's called having foresight. You want to get as many Deerfield coaches in your good graces as you possibly can.

These dudes at Miami are fvckin' amateurs. Do you know that I have 2 rising sophomores right now who have already been offered by several SEC schools? (including Bama)
Miami doesn't even know about them. We spoke to Hixson on the phone this afternoon and reminded him about these two kids. So we're doing THE OPPOSITE of what y'all say Deerfield does!
I was sitting right next to Coach Glenn with Hixson on speaker phone and he told Hixson "Yall need to come get on these freshman I got blah blah blah."
How the fvck does the SEC know about these kids before Miami?! Our DT was the top ranked 8th grader in the entire country! Bama offered him ON SITE!

By the time Miami talks to him Bama and Auburn will have already developed a relationship. And as usual Miami will be late to the party. And you ****heads will be blaming us for sending the kids to the SEC, claiming it's "bags".

GTFOH with y'all bullsh!t. Y'all have no clue WTF goes on behind the scenes.

They know before Miami bc you call the bags school first

 

[Coach Macho]

Jaziun Patterson, Daterius Lee & Alton Tarber?

Yes, but Jazz has a Miami offer.

Guys Guys....I swear it's not about me, it's about the kids

Dumb as ****. SMH
I'm clearly using myself as an example. I can't speak for the other 1,923 high school coaches.