Keir Thomas Offered

He's a baller no doubt just by the film i just have to ask how much has he played at DT? Just asking because not everybody can do this even though Aaron Donald makes me say if he kills it there he can e great
 
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He's really undersized so you'd better have an exact role in mind for him and ask him to only do that role. Too many coaches try to take players and fit them to their scheme and end up asking them to do things they can't do and then blame the player when it doesn't work.

He is not a DE. He is a 3-tech DT who can only play in a one gap system. You have to protect him if he ever plays on running downs or against draw plays. The one gap system is great when you get into the correct gap, but if you're shooting the gap the offense wants you to shoot you give up huge creases for cutback runs. We'd need to be sure and either have a NT two gap on those plays or have a backside LB filling the cutback lane and not freelancing himself.

Has a little bit of Aaron Donald in him, but the Nikita Whitlock is much more apt. The problem is that Whitlock was much more athletic than this kid. Completely different boy types as well. Whitlock put up these numbers at his pro day:

5-10, 251
43 Bench Reps
4.82 40
1.69 10
33" Vertical Jump
9' Broad Jump
4.34 20 yard shuttle
6.91 3-cone (this is an insane time, freakish change of direction and short area burst)

Kony Ealy ran 6.83 at 6-4, 273, Mingo ran 6.84 at 6-4, 241, Watt ran 6.88 at 6-5, 290 (freak show), Vic Beasley ran 6.91 at 6-3, 246, Randy Gregory ran 6.80 at 6-5, 235. To put it into context, the average 3-cone for NFL corners at the Combine since 1999 is a 6.90. For WR's it's a 6.93.

Aaron Donald is his best size comp:

6-1, 285 at the Combine (he was technically 6'06")
35 Bench Reps
4.69 40
1.63 10
32" Vertical Jump
9'08" Broad Jump
4.39 20 Yard Shuttle
7.11 3-Cone

Two things you'll notice from these guys is exceptional change of direction skills (3-cone), and excellent vertical jump numbers (lower body explosion). Keir Thomas does not possess these traits at the moment. I'm comparing guys who were coming out of college, to a kid entering college, but you can only improve so much as an athlete in college. Sometimes you are who you are.

For me, whenever the strength numbers for our players come out I go straight to the vertical jump and squat numbers. That tells you explosive football power type movements. Our program has put up woeful numbers in these key areas and I feel that is directly reflected on the field. In my research, those two metrics are more closely related to football success than any other standard used metrics out there (I've actually seen a dissertation that indicated that lean muscle mass correlates even better than my numbers have shown, but the testing for lean muscle mass is very rigid and the numbers are not nearly as available, so the sample size is much smaller than I've produced). I put together a database for every athlete either invited to the Combine, or who was drafted into the league since 1999.

Believe it or not, height also tends to impact success on the field, so I understand why coaches are so in love with height and arm length. You have to have prototypes in mind for each position and try to live in those dimensions. You make exceptions for the rare cases, because if you make exceptions at each position, before long you have a team full of exceptions. Given the position, need, expected change in defensive philosophy, the fact he plays for a feeder program and has a star teammate we would like to take, I'd make one of those exceptions for Thomas.
 
Thomas is a really good player. He may be light for a DT but he's versatile enough to help you in multiple roles.

Would love to land him and Cook?

Yes... Will take. Does Cook have the frame to be an LB at some point, I know everyone says Safety?
 
He's really undersized so you'd better have an exact role in mind for him and ask him to only do that role. Too many coaches try to take players and fit them to their scheme and end up asking them to do things they can't do and then blame the player when it doesn't work.

He is not a DE. He is a 3-tech DT who can only play in a one gap system. You have to protect him if he ever plays on running downs or against draw plays. The one gap system is great when you get into the correct gap, but if you're shooting the gap the offense wants you to shoot you give up huge creases for cutback runs. We'd need to be sure and either have a NT two gap on those plays or have a backside LB filling the cutback lane and not freelancing himself.

Has a little bit of Aaron Donald in him, but the Nikita Whitlock is much more apt. The problem is that Whitlock was much more athletic than this kid. Completely different boy types as well. Whitlock put up these numbers at his pro day:

5-10, 251
43 Bench Reps
4.82 40
1.69 10
33" Vertical Jump
9' Broad Jump
4.34 20 yard shuttle
6.91 3-cone (this is an insane time, freakish change of direction and short area burst)

Kony Ealy ran 6.83 at 6-4, 273, Mingo ran 6.84 at 6-4, 241, Watt ran 6.88 at 6-5, 290 (freak show), Vic Beasley ran 6.91 at 6-3, 246, Randy Gregory ran 6.80 at 6-5, 235. To put it into context, the average 3-cone for NFL corners at the Combine since 1999 is a 6.90. For WR's it's a 6.93.

Aaron Donald is his best size comp:

6-1, 285 at the Combine (he was technically 6'06")
35 Bench Reps
4.69 40
1.63 10
32" Vertical Jump
9'08" Broad Jump
4.39 20 Yard Shuttle
7.11 3-Cone

Two things you'll notice from these guys is exceptional change of direction skills (3-cone), and excellent vertical jump numbers (lower body explosion). Keir Thomas does not possess these traits at the moment. I'm comparing guys who were coming out of college, to a kid entering college, but you can only improve so much as an athlete in college. Sometimes you are who you are.

For me, whenever the strength numbers for our players come out I go straight to the vertical jump and squat numbers. That tells you explosive football power type movements. Our program has put up woeful numbers in these key areas and I feel that is directly reflected on the field. In my research, those two metrics are more closely related to football success than any other standard used metrics out there (I've actually seen a dissertation that indicated that lean muscle mass correlates even better than my numbers have shown, but the testing for lean muscle mass is very rigid and the numbers are not nearly as available, so the sample size is much smaller than I've produced). I put together a database for every athlete either invited to the Combine, or who was drafted into the league since 1999.

Believe it or not, height also tends to impact success on the field, so I understand why coaches are so in love with height and arm length. You have to have prototypes in mind for each position and try to live in those dimensions. You make exceptions for the rare cases, because if you make exceptions at each position, before long you have a team full of exceptions. Given the position, need, expected change in defensive philosophy, the fact he plays for a feeder program and has a star teammate we would like to take, I'd make one of those exceptions for Thomas.

Word. I'm a big believer in vert too.
 
I dont know maybe it's just me but he looks like a DE .. Would love to have him but getting up he's getting up the field like that vs. High School competition he is very twitchy which is a necessary tool for a GOOD DE.

DE all day..
 
I see a three tech.... He can be the guy you sent slants and hitting the gap. Don't think he has the length to be a de. If he commits he has to have a defined role
 
I dont know maybe it's just me but he looks like a DE .. Would love to have him but getting up he's getting up the field like that vs. High School competition he is very twitchy which is a necessary tool for a GOOD DE.

DE all day..

Length is so important at DE because you have to be able to counteract the arm length of an average T. Inside things are much more congested and you rely on leverage and quickness (or size and strength). You see players have success with short arms on the interior much more often than players who lack length on the outside. Height is extremely important in DE's.

You see this in the programs that excel at uncovering edge pass rushers. Butch always went for 6-3 types. Mizzou always goes for 6-3 types and they are sort of the gold standard for pass rushers right now.

3-tech in a one gap system that is protected by the backside backer is the only way I see any success. I have my doubt he's a star even in that type of system.
 
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Goal should be to add quality talent to all positions. Sometimes in recruiting you have to follow your instincts and take a chance on a high producer that doesn't have the measureables. Kids like this tend to have something to prove and play harder.
 
not saying it is a direct correlation, but cornell brown lived off the edge against us when he was at VaTech
he is listed at 6', but was 5'10"
match ups, playing to his strengths, using others in specialized roles - helped him be a beast
the right coach will succeed with Keir
 
not saying it is a direct correlation, but cornell brown lived off the edge against us when he was at VaTech
he is listed at 6', but was 5'10"
match ups, playing to his strengths, using others in specialized roles - helped him be a beast
the right coach will succeed with Keir

Cornell brown was also a speed rusher and about 210-215 in college - big difference. Dumervil is 6' (at the most) and has a slow 40 but is able to use quickness technique and leverage to rush the passer.
 
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Goal should be to add quality talent to all positions. Sometimes in recruiting you have to follow your instincts and take a chance on a high producer that doesn't have the measureables. Kids like this tend to have something to prove and play harder.

it doesnt matter how hard he tries an 240 pound DT is built to play at D2 schools not Miami.
 
the last one i can remember of note..was the kid Wake Forest trotted out there...He also made it to nfl..because i seen him playing for the Giants at nose tackle as well...he was a guy asked to do one thing at his size and that is shoot gaps...using his advantage.
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Nikita Whitlock. He was a total monster in high school, probably one of the top 5 defensive players I've ever seen at that level. Unblockable in HS when he was both bigger AND faster than everyone he was playing against with that strength & motor.

Kid motor was crazy...it still is. Its comical watching him play..because hes so small but like a tazmanian devil. That motor got him in the nfl playing as an undersized dlineman. Thomas has the get off similar to whitlock though...

I reference this kid a lot because it goes to show the importance of wingspan. Guys like him and Dumervil are improperly judged. Nikita is even more of a unique case because he's also light as well. Guy still makes plays as a specialist player in the NFL. Total badass football player. Not sure about the recruit fitting into that mold.
 
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