Confirmed Josh Gattis

[TheOriginalCane]

Hey genius. The guy said gattis likes to run a lot of plays and offered that he was “near the top of the country” in number plays per game to support that, but the stats clearly don’t support that so I pointed it out. Being average and close to last isn’t near the top. Rankings are relative, just like his “near the top” assertion, and always will be. Then you jumped in and started talking about a bunch of **** that we weren’t, that’s why I’m not addressing all your what if variables. We never even talked about which way was better, but you decided to jump in a day later and go off on a self righteous, “stats are worthless” diatribe. No stat has perfect correlation to performance or record, they are indicators though. If you don’t think plays per game correlates to offensive tempo, you can’t be helped. Notice I didn’t say they are the same, but there is correlation. It’s hilarious how you point out one outlier as proof that what I said is worthless when that’s not even what I said. Either that or you don’t know what correlation means. Outliers still exist even when things correlate, and offensive plays per game correlate better to tempo (what I said) and offensive performance than number of wins (what you decided to argue) since wins would also be affected by defense and special teams. Read a dictionary if necessary, take advil for any headaches, midol for any cramps.

And Michigan was 2-4 when they dropped down to 112th, and scored 7 fewer pts per game compared to this year, but that doesn’t fit your argument so I’m sure that’s a worthless stat and their intention was to run fewer plays and score less even though I was told gattis likes to run tempo. If you feel the need to do some statistical analysis based on who the qb was, defensive substitutions and correlate a few more stats with those to prove your assertions, have fun

You doubled-down on the worthlessness of stats. Impressive.

Again, there is a difference between wanting to "go fast" and the situational need to run plays more quickly or more slowly. And when the entirety of the range is 58 plays (K-State) to 81 plays (Wake Forest), then all of the nonsense about being "near the top of the country" and "average" and "bottom of the country" really doesn't mean a whole helluva lot. And I already pointed out that one-third of all schools in Division I fell between 70-75 offensive plays per game, so the range gets quite narrow once you factor out some super-high-end and super-low-end numbers.

As for the rest of your complaining, I didn't just point out one outlier. I pointed out that numerous teams ranked "ahead" of Alabama in this metric were pretty average teams AND I pointed out that two of the four CFP teams were at the BOTTOM of the list. Those aren't just outliers, those are statistics with negative discrimination index, where some of the best teams are at the bottom and some of the weaker teams are at the top.

You are free to milk your couple of Stats classes into a pontification on the stats, that's up to you. As always, stats are an interesting starting point for discussion, but I'll take the eye test every time. Pace and tempo are not simple factors to be measured on a clock, particularly when certain types of plays stop the clock and others do not. That's why it's important to look at whether the offense gets to the line quickly and without substituting, as it freezes what the defense can do to substitute and rotate players. Whether the QB then looks to the sideline and utilizes long snap counts is what leads to the "number of plays" stat being misleading of what is really going on.

But you keep focused on those stats. I prefer to watch the game and see what is actually going on.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

I don't dig the OC hire.

Every coach wants their OL to dominate and to run the ball but most don't have the players to do this. If we run Michigan's offense next year then we don't win more than 7 games. I hope we see a new offense for Josh but I have been around long enough to know that most coaches don't change their scheme and we just hired a coach that has coached at Alabama and Big Ten schools.

Your troll game is really getting weak.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Building an elite OL takes time. I expect our 23 class will be our best OL class in the last 20 years but that means it will be 2025 before that group has real depth and alphas have learned from alphas. I much rather us play to our strengths and that means having our offense transition over time.

One word.

Portal.

We no longer have to wait years for OL seeds to bloom into flowers.

I'm fine with remaining fairly Portal-heavy for the OL. It's the hardest position to forecast, and one where Mirabal has a pretty good track record of turning water into wine.

 

[BS85]

So liked Briles better. The 156 total yards that the pork chops gained against UGA?

 

[DTP]

One word.

Portal.

We no longer have to wait years for OL seeds to bloom into flowers.

I'm fine with remaining fairly Portal-heavy for the OL. It's the hardest position to forecast, and one where Mirabal has a pretty good track record of turning water into wine.

The only thing about portal linemen is that it’s still a crap shoot. There’s not a ton of plug and play offensive linemen waiting to transfer. You’re getting one of two types out of the portal: The small school guy looking to improve draft stock or the P5 player who’s essentially been a bust at his current school. Miami’s portal linemen have run the gamut from “pretty solid” (Jarrid Williams) to “meh” (Ousman Traore) to “holy crap you suck” ( Tommy Kennedy).

They did catch a break picking up that kid that was originally at Oregon but he’s hardly a lock to start here.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

The only thing about portal linemen is that it’s still a crap shoot. There’s not a ton of plug and play offensive linemen waiting to transfer. You’re getting one of two types out of the portal: The small school guy looking to improve draft stock or the P5 player who’s essentially been a bust at his current school. Miami’s portal linemen have run the gamut from “pretty solid” (Jarrid Williams) to “meh” (Ousman Traore) to “holy crap you suck” ( Tommy Kennedy).

They did catch a break picking up that kid that was originally at Oregon but he’s hardly a lock to start here.

I understand what you are saying, and I would also draw a line of demarcation between "what Miami got with Manny" and "what Miami will get with Cristobal/Mirabal".

I certainly think we will get guys who are looking to finish out with a couple of years in an excellent program with good coaching, and I also think that Cristobal and Mirabal have a better eye for evaluation than Manny and anyone who worked for Manny. Not to mention the impact that superior S&C and OL coaching will have on players.

Maybe we will hit the OL bullseye every time, and maybe we will miss at times, but I still believe that "waiting 3 years on a HS recruit" is not our only pathway to success.

 

[Edward20]

This thread is nauseating

 

[Casprings4]

Imma be honest if you got time to recruit a kid get him to commit and "recruit" the mom. In my eyes you elite lol.

 

[Andrew]

One word.

Portal.

We no longer have to wait years for OL seeds to bloom into flowers.

I'm fine with remaining fairly Portal-heavy for the OL. It's the hardest position to forecast, and one where Mirabal has a pretty good track record of turning water into wine.

You don't get Alabama and UGA quality OL in the portal. You get guys trying to go from UDFA to 4th round.

Again, I have no doubt we will recruit well at this position but I think it's a little crazy to expect us to be able to ground and pound next year with this OL.

 

[Eric The Midget]

I'm pretty neutral on this hire. Im gonna trust Mario on this one.

 

[swampcougar1]

I just want an OL good enough to insure we can gain a yard when needed. That would be a huge improvement

 

[TheOriginalCane]

You don't get Alabama and UGA quality OL in the portal. You get guys trying to go from UDFA to 4th round.

Again, I have no doubt we will recruit well at this position but I think it's a little crazy to expect us to be able to ground and pound next year with this OL.

Sure. I'm not expecting us to be UGa/Bama with a couple of Portal guys. But to think that we can't win the ACC that way is, I believe, inaccurate. And that should be our starting point. And I do feel that we could address our OL, via the Portal, over multiple years and without having to wait for recent signees to be ready. That's all. I'm not giving up on the HS kids, I'm just acknowledging that we can win 10 or 11 games per year for a few years without having to wait on them.

 

[Andrew]

Sure. I'm not expecting us to be UGa/Bama with a couple of Portal guys. But to think that we can't win the ACC that way is, I believe, inaccurate. And that should be our starting point. And I do feel that we could address our OL, via the Portal, over multiple years and without having to wait for recent signees to be ready. That's all. I'm not giving up on the HS kids, I'm just acknowledging that we can win 10 or 11 games per year for a few years without having to wait on them.

We can win the ACC if we upset Clemson but we would be nothing but Michigan in the CFP.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

We can win the ACC if we upset Clemson but we would be nothing but Michigan in the CFP.

Fair. Still, that's a lot better than where we've been, and without having to wait 2-3 years.

 

[BeastMode]

Fair. Still, that's a lot better than where we've been, and without having to wait 2-3 years.

People want to go from **** to a golden nugget overnight.

It’s like they don’t realize Miami has sucked donkey **** for the last 20 years.

There are levels to this and Mario is doing his best to get this changed but it will take years. Ppl comparing and complaining that we would be a final 4 team it’s laughable.

These days in college 10 wins and good bowl with a shot a playoff is major success. No one is going to go on a run like Bama is ok so stop comparing Miami to them. Miami can’t even win the **** coastal.

 

[TitansHope]

People want to go from **** to a golden nugget overnight.

It’s like they don’t realize Miami has sucked donkey **** for the last 20 years.

There are levels to this and Mario is doing his best to get this changed but it will take years. Ppl comparing and complaining that we would be a final 4 team it’s laughable.

These days in college 10 wins and good bowl with a shot a playoff is major success. No one is going to go on a run like Bama is ok so stop comparing Miami to them. Miami can’t even win the **** coastal.

yeah the expectations some of y’all have are unhinged. this team won 7 games last season

 

[TheOriginalCane]

People want to go from **** to a golden nugget overnight.

It’s like they don’t realize Miami has sucked donkey **** for the last 20 years.

There are levels to this and Mario is doing his best to get this changed but it will take years. Ppl comparing and complaining that we would be a final 4 team it’s laughable.

These days in college 10 wins and good bowl with a shot a playoff is major success. No one is going to go on a run like Bama is ok so stop comparing Miami to them. Miami can’t even win the **** coastal.

I understand @Andrew 's point about building OL depth via HS recruiting, I just think that we will have 1-2 key contributors EACH YEAR who come from the Portal, until such time as we have stacked 3-4 solid years of OL chips from HS recruiting.

And I think we can be pretty **** good as soon as this year. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Miami[]_[]Smoke]

You doubled-down on the worthlessness of stats. Impressive.

Again, there is a difference between wanting to "go fast" and the situational need to run plays more quickly or more slowly. And when the entirety of the range is 58 plays (K-State) to 81 plays (Wake Forest), then all of the nonsense about being "near the top of the country" and "average" and "bottom of the country" really doesn't mean a whole helluva lot. And I already pointed out that one-third of all schools in Division I fell between 70-75 offensive plays per game, so the range gets quite narrow once you factor out some super-high-end and super-low-end numbers.

As for the rest of your complaining, I didn't just point out one outlier. I pointed out that numerous teams ranked "ahead" of Alabama in this metric were pretty average teams AND I pointed out that two of the four CFP teams were at the BOTTOM of the list. Those aren't just outliers, those are statistics with negative discrimination index, where some of the best teams are at the bottom and some of the weaker teams are at the top.

You are free to milk your couple of Stats classes into a pontification on the stats, that's up to you. As always, stats are an interesting starting point for discussion, but I'll take the eye test every time. Pace and tempo are not simple factors to be measured on a clock, particularly when certain types of plays stop the clock and others do not. That's why it's important to look at whether the offense gets to the line quickly and without substituting, as it freezes what the defense can do to substitute and rotate players. Whether the QB then looks to the sideline and utilizes long snap counts is what leads to the "number of plays" stat being misleading of what is really going on.

But you keep focused on those stats. I prefer to watch the game and see what is actually going on.

Youre using worthless stats to argue that stats are worthless, yet only your eye test tells the true story. well done…

 

[BeastMode]

I understand @Andrew 's point about building OL depth via HS recruiting, I just think that we will have 1-2 key contributors EACH YEAR who come from the Portal, until such time as we have stacked 3-4 solid years of OL chips from HS recruiting.

And I think we can be pretty **** good as soon as this year. Just my 2 cents.

Agreed but I don’t understand him saying gattis can’t function with this team.

If that’s the case then he just flat out sucks. He will adjust to the talent he has.

 

[scrantoncane]

I can’t wrap my head around people complaining about the Broyles award winning OC who just took his team to the playoffs, before he even calls a single play here.

There is a proper time to criticize, if warranted. In my opinion, that shouldn’t be before the midway point of the 2022 season.

But, at a minimum, it can’t be before game 1 has completed. We have no idea what limitations or directives Harbaugh put towards Gattis. Or, what Mario may do to him. It has to play out on the field.