It starts with the right coach

[HighSeas]

Disagree. Scheme and development is everything. Miami has scheme issues on both sides of the ball and doesn't develop players at most positions. Those are the issues that have plagued this progra. All highly successful programs have high-level scheme guys on at least one side of the ball. You can chart the rise and fall of P5 programs in recent years entirely based on the effectiveness of their schemes and how well they adapt to modern football.

The traits that OP stresses are valuable but ultimately worthless if you're playing at a schematic disadvantage with players who stagnate in their development. All the old cliches about coaching and leadership are cute but football is way too complex to value them over scheme.

Also someone explain to me the differe ce between a "CEO" hire and the traits OP seeks because it seems to me like there is a ton of overlap there. You can't bash the archetype that is supposed to resemble the traits you value.

 

[TruCane81]

Disagree. Scheme and development is everything. Miami has scheme issues on both sides of the ball and doesn't develop players at most positions. Those are the issues that have plagued this progra. All highly successful programs have high-level scheme guys on at least one side of the ball. You can chart the rise and fall of P5 programs in recent years entirely based on the effectiveness of their schemes and how well they adapt to modern football.

The traits that OP stresses are valuable but ultimately worthless if you're playing at a schematic disadvantage with players who stagnate in their development. All the old cliches about coaching and leadership are cute but football is way too complex to value them over scheme.

Also someone explain to me the differe ce between a "CEO" hire and the traits OP seeks because it seems to me like there is a ton of overlap there. You can't bash the archetype that is supposed to resemble the traits you value.

Leadership is just the foundation.

The reason most coaches can’t be x and o gurus is because of their egos. They get stuck in what they like. The gurus are always watching and adjusting, changing based on feedback. They don’t square peg players and don’t concede defeat based on talent. They find a way. They know what traits to look for and how to develop.

It’s more important to have that in the coordinator though. Lots of gurus fail as the head man in charge. Good coordinators have become great head coaches.

You need a guy who can convince those type coordinators to choose his team and create an environment where they can be successful. Great leaders attract great talent, both coaches and players.

 

[Pearson704]

Andrew, I anticipated your question and thought about it.

Golden - the issue was, he didn’t really have so much success at a lower tier program. We didn’t do our homework there at all. Some posters were on this immediately. Miami nites IIRC was one. It’s critical to assess, and we blew that one - not just in the sense that it didn’t work in retrospect. Temple went up by changing conferences. And Golden traded a blip for a new gig. He was not well proven at a lower tier program(losing record, 3 of r losing seasons, and progress yes but against backdrop of dropping competitive level), and the things that you want to see a coach excel at, you couldn’t confirm he could do excellently. We reached too far, and projected onto him. He looked the part, Penn State, blah blah. And again, we projected CEO, which is a terrible theory to begin with, all because we believed UM’s situation makes it okay to hire a manager. False. We need a leader. A program builder.

Richt - Similar mistake. How much success did he really have? And due to what on his part? Major state program, great local talent, booster base. Overlap Clemson wasn’t yet rolling, FSU was declining, and Alabama only got rolling well into his tenure. Richt was in all likelihood a mirage. People projected onto him because they wanted to. He isn’t a schematic innovator. The UM connection and CEO theories are fails. He isn’t, IMO, a real leader. He’s a guy who was there, looked the part, and thought he was great when he wasn’t. And again, the ‘local talent’ theory is just bunk. It’s entirely the wrong way to look at this program’s needs, IMO.

Fuente kind of fits my theory. Coordinator, scheme guy. And good at that. But not a program builder or leader. Maybe he’ll turn it around, but I doubt it. Taggart, lol.

It’ll be interesting to see how Herman and Frost do at UT and NB. Heupel and Riley seem like really good coaches. The solid program, not extraordinary types (but good coaches, dependable and could do it with time) include Whittingham, Chryst, Ferentz, Cutcliffe, Mullen, Gundy, Dantonio, Fitzgerald, Malzahn.

There aren’t that many program build type coaches, and UM as a program at this point is a complete rebuild. We cannot expect to win just with a clever scheme guy. I’m not sure anyone should expect that, but clearly without the infrastructure here, we cannot.

The guys who could turn our program are unattainable unfortunately. Peterson and Patterson ain’t coming. Obviously Saban, Dabo, those types aren’t. Matt Campbell is an interesting guy to watch. Not yet sure how to classify him.

Appreciate the posts. I agree with your general premise, however, if Golden and Richt didn't let relationships compromise them in hiring defensive and offensive staff, respectively, their respective tenures would have lasted longer. I think you're playing the result a little on this and we're seeing the same thing with Manny. Someone who could build on the defense we saw the last 3 years, maybe even a better DC than Manny, and this team is 4-0. There's no real scheming around the OL deficiencies, but we have the horses on defense to be better than we are. A more seasoned DC and overall staff could do wonders for this team, as constructed.

 

[The Franchise]

It’s not too much to ask and I agree. We are looking for signs of a well coached team and we haven’t seen them.

Having said that I can say it’s equally as wild to write Diaz off as a failure 4 games into tenure.

It’s not wild to be aware of the early signs of failure. Canes fans should be intimately acquainted with those signs by now.

 

[The Franchise]

Don’t think this team has quit or been lazy on game days. Went toe to toe for 60 minutes against the Turds, came all the way back from being down 17-3 at UNC and had the game in hand before that catastrophic 4th and 17.

Sloppy and mistake prone yes. Quitters, no.

If that was full effort against CMU then we’re in deep poo. We followed that steaming **** with what Diaz characterized as a terrible practice. This isn’t making me feel warm and fuzzy about buy in.

 

[The Franchise]

Boomer Sooner was only in the doldrums with bad hires during the nineties after the legendary Barry Switzer retired following the 1988 season. Gibbs couldn't beat Boomer Sooner's MAIN RIVALS. So that's the main reason he was let go.; then Howard's cameo appearance; followed by a terrible hire in John Blake. Blake could recruit, but couldn't coach. In other words, Stoop won it all with Blake's PLAYERS!

I don’t know what point you’re trying to make, but you just said what I said. OU had a run of 3 straight awful hires and didn’t rebound just because they were mighty OU. They rebounded because they made a good hire in Bob Poops.

 

[the storm]

Andrew, I anticipated your question and thought about it.

Golden - the issue was, he didn’t really have so much success at a lower tier program. We didn’t do our homework there at all. Some posters were on this immediately. Miami nites IIRC was one. It’s critical to assess, and we blew that one - not just in the sense that it didn’t work in retrospect. Temple went up by changing conferences. And Golden traded a blip for a new gig. He was not well proven at a lower tier program(losing record, 3 of r losing seasons, and progress yes but against backdrop of dropping competitive level), and the things that you want to see a coach excel at, you couldn’t confirm he could do excellently. We reached too far, and projected onto him. He looked the part, Penn State, blah blah. And again, we projected CEO, which is a terrible theory to begin with, all because we believed UM’s situation makes it okay to hire a manager. False. We need a leader. A program builder.

Richt - Similar mistake. How much success did he really have? And due to what on his part? Major state program, great local talent, booster base. Overlap Clemson wasn’t yet rolling, FSU was declining, and Alabama only got rolling well into his tenure. Richt was in all likelihood a mirage. People projected onto him because they wanted to. He isn’t a schematic innovator. The UM connection and CEO theories are fails. He isn’t, IMO, a real leader. He’s a guy who was there, looked the part, and thought he was great when he wasn’t. And again, the ‘local talent’ theory is just bunk. It’s entirely the wrong way to look at this program’s needs, IMO.

Fuente kind of fits my theory. Coordinator, scheme guy. And good at that. But not a program builder or leader. Maybe he’ll turn it around, but I doubt it. Taggart, lol.

It’ll be interesting to see how Herman and Frost do at UT and NB. Heupel and Riley seem like really good coaches. The solid program, not extraordinary types (but good coaches, dependable and could do it with time) include Whittingham, Chryst, Ferentz, Cutcliffe, Mullen, Gundy, Dantonio, Fitzgerald, Malzahn.

There aren’t that many program build type coaches, and UM as a program at this point is a complete rebuild. We cannot expect to win just with a clever scheme guy. I’m not sure anyone should expect that, but clearly without the infrastructure here, we cannot.

The guys who could turn our program are unattainable unfortunately. Peterson and Patterson ain’t coming. Obviously Saban, Dabo, those types aren’t. Matt Campbell is an interesting guy to watch. Not yet sure how to classify him.

Well VT thought they had it figured out with Fuente but not looking too good at this point. He's a 2 foot thick binder coach like Golden. Richt was hired on the rebound & was basically talked into taking the UM job. Was doomed from the get go. You didn't mention the part about LUCK. Certainly could use a little luck & UM wasn't done any favors with the horrible schedule this year...need to.just go and play games, get some continuity instead of the herky-jerky start stop, open dates, Friday night games; NOT conducive to building team consistency.

 

[Ethnicsands]

no, not at all.

you can be a "good program" doing the things that UCF has done, (state university, cheap tuition, low operating costs, low academic standards, etc.) …. but you will NEVER be "elite" without bags.

And yet we have won the Coastal once in ever. Our fan base talks about ‘elite’ like some old grandpa talks about how he was a whoremonger back in the day. We’d be thrilled to compete like UCF. The path to elite runs through competent.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Well VT thought they had it figured out with Fuente but not looking too good at this point. He's a 2 foot thick binder coach like Golden. Richt was hired on the rebound & was basically talked into taking the UM job. Was doomed from the get go. You didn't mention the part about LUCK. Certainly could use a little luck & UM wasn't done any favors with the horrible schedule this year...need to.just go and play games, get some continuity instead of the herky-jerky start stop, open dates, Friday night games; NOT conducive to building team consistency.

Luck is good to have, but bad to plan on or expect.

Again, there are no certainties, but the odds are a lot worse against you when you don’t know what you need, and hire for the wrong traits.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Appreciate the posts. I agree with your general premise, however, if Golden and Richt didn't let relationships compromise them in hiring defensive and offensive staff, respectively, their respective tenures would have lasted longer. I think you're playing the result a little on this and we're seeing the same thing with Manny. Someone who could build on the defense we saw the last 3 years, maybe even a better DC than Manny, and this team is 4-0. There's no real scheming around the OL deficiencies, but we have the horses on defense to be better than we are. A more seasoned DC and overall staff could do wonders for this team, as constructed.

Golden and Richt could have failed more slowly, I suppose. But make no mistake, they weren’t going to succeed.

Building a top cfb program is hard.

 

[Go Canes!!]

If that was full effort against CMU then we’re in deep poo. We followed that steaming **** with what Diaz characterized as a terrible practice. This isn’t making me feel warm and fuzzy about buy in.

They also just said they had their best practice of the year after Wednesday's worst. I doubt either is true. Perhaps coaches just doing what they need to do to get the team's mind right.

Not buying in at this point but certainly giving it more than four games. This team has a lot of red flags. Hopefully the overconfidence they showed against CMU serves as a wakeup call after the BCC blowout cause right now this team isnt good enough to take anyone for granted.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Our AD is weak and listens too much to the chatter of former players like the dopes on this board do. He and they think that playing on or coaching a team from the early 90s or 2001 somehow imbues them with mystical powers to know what will work at UM.

That’s why so many decisions come down to looking for a Miami guy. They think there’s some magic to the area where recruits and players will only respond to someone from the area or someone attached to the glory days.

Meanwhile, our NC coaches had zero connection to the area or the culture and were rednecks and a dude from as far geographically from here as you can get.

Yep. They say you’re supposed to skate to where the puck is going. This program has been trying for two decades to skate to where the puck used to be. And face planting into the sideboards as a result.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Riley fired guys despite going to the playoffs. When’s the last time we had that sort of astute self-analysis and savage commitment to championship level play here? Can you imagine any of our HCs firing coordinators despite going to the CFP?

We haven't had a legit staff in ages. Banda, Rumph, Patke and the guy we promoted when the last guy bailed is not a legit staff recruiting-wise or coaching-wise.

Manny talks the talk, but his actions suggest he thought this would be easy.

 

[The Franchise]

We haven't had a legit staff in ages. Banda, Rumph, Patke and the guy we promoted when the last guy bailed is not a legit staff recruiting-wise or coaching-wise.

Manny talks the talk, but his actions suggest he thought this would be easy.

His hires were pathetic. Our staff is more amateur than my favorite **** genre.

 

[Ethnicsands]

His hires were pathetic. Our staff is more amateur than my favorite **** genre.

Interestingly, it is adept at many of the same positions.

 

[Pearson704]

It’s not too much to ask and I agree. We are looking for signs of a well coached team and we haven’t seen them.

Having said that I can say it’s equally as wild to write Diaz off as a failure 4 games into tenure.

It's the tone-deaf lack of awareness that's most troubling. From the offseason culture-building and reseting "the standard", to kids playing without discipline and practicing without conviction. He looks exposed and I wish he wasn't learning this on the job.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

It really starts with accumulating a massive amount of talent, every single year, for several years.

Then after that, the right coach, IF he has one of the top QBs in college football, gives you a legit shot to win it.

For all the back and forth that goes on here, the numbers don't lie. None one team in the last 15 plus years has won it without the combination of overwhelming talent and a stud under center, regardless of who's on the sideline.

Updated 4-year recruiting rankings for all 130: SEC dominates

UGA’s nearly tied Bama as the SEC’s gap grows. Meanwhile, A&M’s 2019 class ranks sixth-best in the SEC, but would have led two other power conferences.

www.sbnation.com

College football championship history

Here is a comprehensive list of every college football champion from 1869 to the present day.

www.ncaa.com

Well than we are fvcked because Manny sucked at recruiting his entire career.

 

[TemplarCane]

There aren’t that many program build type coaches, and UM as a program at this point is a complete rebuild. We cannot expect to win just with a clever scheme guy. I’m not sure anyone should expect that, but clearly, without the infrastructure here, we cannot.

The guys who could turn our program are unattainable, unfortunately. Peterson and Patterson ain’t coming. Obviously Saban, Dabo, those types aren’t. Matt Campbell is an interesting guy to watch. Not yet sure how to classify him.

I like Matt Campbell. He hasn't been perfect, but he's beaten OU, TCU, and WVU when all three were ranked in the Top 6.

A program like Iowa State has a ceiling they are unlikely to ever surpass unless they are fortunate to luck into a generational-like talent at QB. Not unlike Andrew Luck at Stanford.

He's young (late 30s, early 40s), and may have greater aspirations than Ames, Iowa. Maybe the NFL? JJ once said he accepted the Miami job when a confidant convinced him it was the best shot he had at an NFL job. I am not opposed to a mercenary coach using Miami as a stepping stone.

 

[TemplarCane]

OU wasn’t elite when Riley took over. They were good. He’s made them a perennial playoff team.

OU knew Riley had elite potential, and conveniently convinced Stoops to retire. As good as Stoops was for OU after their post-Switzer shytshow, they were unlikely to win another NC as long as he remained HC.

OU wanted more and took a swing for the fences.

 

[TemplarCane]

Here's the rub, the successful head coaches made changes when their team was not performing to their standard. Dabo fired his DC, fired his OC, and hired guys who were proven. Same with Riley, and Saban. Diaz's hires have been somewhat suspect. His defensive staff is very inexperienced and unproven. His offensive staff the same. He'll have to show that he's willing to make changes, unlike Golden and Richt.

Not only did Dabo fire his OC, but he also had the vision to see the spread was the future and hired an innovator at the offense. Chad Morris was a high school HC before his one year at Tulsa. Ballsy hire, IMO.

Hired someone smarter than he was. Great leaders do things like this.