if we lose to FSU but….

[bobbydigius]

unless you use homosexual phrases when referencing Golden some posters here don't get excited enough to read. and your post is full of facts and apples to apples comps which means said posters would also ignore

In 1997, we had just 52 scholarship players. Show me when Golden has faced that here over the past four years. Also, please show us where Golden has pulled 2* and 3* NFL caliber talent out of his ***. C'mon, compare apples to apples. People were calling for an END to the program with Butch. Show us when that's happened with Golden. Compare apples to apples. You don't think THAT was a cloud? Were you or any of the Golden Girls fans back then? I was and it was INFINITELY worse than what Golden has had to go through. Inspite of that, Davis put together the best team in CFB HISTORY. Is that where we are at now? Has Golden done that? Again, COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES.

were we the best team in 1998?

I just don't know what to say with this. You serious? When did I say that? Are you arguing that Butch DIDN'T assemble the greatest cfb team in history??? Just say it, if that's what you think.

No, you are comparing Butch's team in year 6 against Golden's team in year 4.

Sanctions were much harsher during the Butch era but they didn't have to wait 2-3 years for a verdict. The waiting and rumors hurt recruiting more than the actual sanctions in Golden's case.

Butch did a great job recruiting but a lot of the greats from the 2001 team were not really developed by him (Taylor, Wilfork, Rolle, Winslow, Gore, Jennings, Parrish, McIntosh).

Golden's job security will be determined next year. He will have a good team coming back with a young stud QB and a stable of Miami caliber RBs. The plan was to win the coastal this year and it is still possible although slim. The Louisville, Nebraska and GT games were not pretty but we were in 2 out of the 3 games until the 4th quarter. I still believe we can beat Louisville if we played them today, this team has improved a lot since week 1.

Class of 2016 would be equivalent to Butch's 2000 recruiting class which include the likes of Vilma, DJ Williams, Shockey, McDougle, McGahee, and Myers. Let's see how Butch built that championship team in 2001 and compare it to what Golden has done so far.

Year 1
Butch was named head coach in January 1995. Much like Golden, he didn't have much time to put together a class. he sign 17 players which only include 1 first round pick in Starks and a couple of NFL players in Nick Williams, Fulcher.

Golden's first class had 21 signees of which only 10 are left. It included Chickillo, Perrymen and Dorsett who will all make it to NFL next year.

Year 2
Butch had some major sanctions and only signed 12 players in 1996. However that 12 include Bubba Franks, EJ, J. Jackson, D. Lewis, A. Blades and Nate Webster.

Golden sign 33 players in second recruiting class while under going NCAA investigation. We don't know how they will turn out at the next level but some names include Duke Johnson, Deon Bush, Tracy Howard, Flowers, Kirby, Waters, Gadbois, Isadora, McCord. I'm pretty sure at least 6 from this class will make it to the next level.

Year 3
This is class that was that started the winning culture of the Championship team in 2001. It included 4 studs in Ed Reed, Morgan, Wayne, and Moss along with a few solid players such Davenport, King, and Bibla.

Golden brought in only 20 recruits in 2013 which includes Burns, Dobbard, Carter, AQM, Coley, Gus, Grace, Corn and Tucker. They are only in their second year so we'll have to wait a few more years to see how this class turns out.

Year 4
Class of 1998 was a good depth class for Butch with only a couple of NFL players on the roster in Rumph and William Joseph. There were a bunch of solid contributors such as M. Walters, Sands, Romberg, J. Green, and H. Clark.

Class of 2014 has turned out to be solid so far. With future studs like Kaaya, McDermott, Darling, Linder, Jenkins, Owens and Yearby.

Year 5
In class of 1999, Butch got Andre, Buchannon, Dorsey, Carey, McKinney, Portis, Sikes. This class provide the missing pieces for the championship.

Class of 2015 is still in the works but it seems as if we are finally loading up on a stable of RBs at the U with commitments from Scarlett, Williams and Walton. J. Johnson could be a much needed stud and leader in the secondary. This class could provide some missing pieces to a solid team and help take it to the next level.

People keep saying that, but we have brought in top 3 talent some may argue top 2 talent in the conference during Al's 3 classes that had the cloud looming over it. The cloud prevented us from recruiting at an elite level, true, but it was good enough to own the Coastal division, and we have not done that and that is the problem. It be one thing if every class since Al got here looked like our 2011 class, then you could point to the cloud and say, man we just don't have the horses, but that is not what has happened. We have recruited like a top 15 program, and we have not even played at a top 25 level…...

 

[CanesAreAble]

FSU has been limping through this season. They haven't looked complete in any game. Even in the 43-3 win agains Wake, it was only 10-3 very late in the first half.

We've played our best football of the Golden era the past couple weeks. We've lost four straight to the Noles, so we should be insanely fired up for this game. We get two weeks to prepare. We get them at home. At night.

If Golden can't beat them this year, he can't beat them.

 

[ECC609]

No.

 

[Consigliere]

Funny how some fans want Golden out because he is 0-3 against FSU and bring back Butch who was 1-5 against FSU and 0-5 going into year 6.

10/07/1995 L 41-17 A
10/12/1996 L 34-16 H
10/04/1997 L 47- 0 A
10/10/1998 L 26-14 H
10/09/1999 L 31-21 A
10/07/2000 W 24-27 H

Losing to FSU is only part of it. Do you understand this? Do you understand that Al Golden has a record in conference of 16-13? Do you understand we ALREADY have 3 losses this season? Do you understand we haven't won the Coastal yet? Do you understand it isn't JUST FSU?

As for the retarded comparison to Butch Davis.

- Butch was down 31 ships
- Butch was a first time HC
- Butch won his first bowl game, Al never won any (already lost his first one at Miami)
- Butch was 17-6 after two seasons at Miami. Al Golden 13-12.
- Butch was 31-15 after four seasons at Miami. Al Golden is 28-18 (at this point).
- Butch finished 51-20 at Miami. For Golden, to match that he can only lose 2 games over the next 25.

Al Golden's best win at Miami was against an 8-5 GT team in 2011.
Butch Davis beat the following teams (9 or more wins) [This is through 46 games or the same point at Miami]

#22 Syracuse (9-3) in 95
#16 Syracuse (9-3) in 96
#3 UCLA (10-2) in 98

Butch Davis had issues but for being a FIRST TIME HC and dealing with REAL SANCTIONS...Al isn't close.

 

[SmokeyRone]

We outrecruited Duke. Yet they will have back to back Coastal titles.

Marshall is ranked. Radio beat Marshall.

Fire Golden if we don't win the Coastal. All he has done is get the program back to the AWFUL Radio 2010 season, except in recruiting, as Radio's ZERO commit class of 2010 looks a LOT better than Golden's phony 2015 class now.

It has taken that clown FOUR years to get us as bad as Radio in 2010. THAT says a lot.

 

[Biscuits]

Ladies, we're rolling now but fact is FSU:

- is #2 in the nation
- is undefeated
- are the defending champions
- have the reigning Heismann winner as QB
- will be favorite in this game

Yet a loss to them is your final straw for Golden? Sounds to me like you want the Canes to lose so you can justify all the time you've wasted on this site stroking each other with your anti Golden rants.

Grow a pair.

Beat FSU!

Where THE **** did anyone even remotely imply that a loss to FSU was the final straw?

 

[caneforever]

There is a big difference between what we think versus what will happen. Golden is not getting fired!

 

[Pennmed Canefan]

Realistically we think that FSU is one of the top teams in the country. They are not scrubs. If we do what you suggest, we would have to view ourselves as one of the best teams in the country since the GT debacle--blowing out everybody except the nation's best. That would be drastic improvement and would set us up as a top 15 team headed into next year.

I had given up on Golden like most, but I'm not agenda driven. I don't care I just want success. It would be pretty stupid imo to fire a guy just to hire a new unproven guy (we're not getting saban or meyer, you know) when you've played like a top team for 2 months.

Let's see him do it first. We've had these what if we succeed questions for 5 years running then the wheels fall off.

 

[drifters1234]

Funny how some fans want Golden out because he is 0-3 against FSU and bring back Butch who was 1-5 against FSU and 0-5 going into year 6.

10/07/1995 L 41-17 A
10/12/1996 L 34-16 H
10/04/1997 L 47- 0 A
10/10/1998 L 26-14 H
10/09/1999 L 31-21 A
10/07/2000 W 24-27 H

Butch had actual and **** near unprecedented sanctions. Golden has had a puffy white cloud.

Always wanted to be a moper

My response to the bolded?

Excuses.

If you consider actual sanctions(ie 30+ scholarships) an "excuse" then how do you characterize the puffy cloud that Golden never fails to remind us about?

 

[Dingaan1828]

Puffy cloud?

This board agonized over possible NCAA sanctions from the day Shapiro's **** hit the fan. Does anyone deny that? Suddenly everyone's memory is wiped clean. It's like it never happened.

Butch faced very real scholarship restrictions - somewhat mitigated by being able to bring in guys on other than FB scholarships. You can't do that any more. But, in any case, they were severe restrictions and hurt badly. No one has ever disputed that Butch is a master at talent evaluation. Everyone gets that. Still, fans were not patient at all. Right up until KO vs UCLA people wanted him fired.

I'm not on Golden's wagon, but fair is fair.

Never mind. My wife just said we have to go vote now. I don't know why, the country is already ****ed.

 

[drifters1234]

Puffy cloud?

This board agonized over possible NCAA sanctions from the day Shapiro's **** hit the fan. Does anyone deny that? Suddenly everyone's memory is wiped clean. It's like it never happened.

Butch faced very real scholarship restrictions - somewhat mitigated by being able to bring in guys on other than FB scholarships. You can't do that any more. But, in any case, they were severe restrictions and hurt badly. No one has ever disputed that Butch is a master at talent evaluation. Everyone gets that. Still, fans were not patient at all. Right up until KO vs UCLA people wanted him fired.

I'm not on Golden's wagon, but fair is fair.

Never mind. My wife just said we have to go vote now. I don't know why, the country is already ****ed.

I'm responding to the earlier post essentially claiming that Butch is no better than Golden, because Butch lost 5 straight FSU games. I was pointing out that the comparison was utterly ridiculous, given that Butch dealt with actual scholarship reductions that were unprecedented at the time (outside of the SMU death penalty), and have not been matched since, with the exception of USC.

Golden, conversely, dealt with the threat of potential sanctions - aka the cloud. While I certainly agree that the cloud negatively impacted our recruiting, it is not remotely close to actually losing 30+ players, which completely eliminates depth.

And notwithstanding the cloud, Golden has still recruited more than enough talent to excel in the bottom-feeding ACC Coastal. In fact, our recruiting classes through the cloud years were consistenly at the top of the ACC Coastal, yet our results on the field have been consistently underwhelming, especially when we have played a legitimate team.

In short, equating the cloud to the sanctions Butch endured is laughable.

 

[TpaBayFlyFisher]

No. But, he is told that win the Coastal in 2015 or it is out the door.

Believe it or not, because of the NCAA, the program is just now adding real Miami talent. We are starting a true freshman at QB and he looks like a star in the making. With the exception of Duke and DP our playmakers are all underclassmen. Our starting S is out for the year with an injury. Our dept is getting better. Gators will have a "new-coach recruiting class" this year, so there are players to be had. FSU loses Crabby Winston and will return to a 2-3 loss team..........the window may open up if our defensive problems are solved. If not then we too need to hunt for a coach.

 

[OzarCaneSaw]

Puffy cloud?

This board agonized over possible NCAA sanctions from the day Shapiro's **** hit the fan. Does anyone deny that? Suddenly everyone's memory is wiped clean. It's like it never happened.

Butch faced very real scholarship restrictions - somewhat mitigated by being able to bring in guys on other than FB scholarships. You can't do that any more. But, in any case, they were severe restrictions and hurt badly. No one has ever disputed that Butch is a master at talent evaluation. Everyone gets that. Still, fans were not patient at all. Right up until KO vs UCLA people wanted him fired.

I'm not on Golden's wagon, but fair is fair.

Never mind. My wife just said we have to go vote now. I don't know why, the country is already ****ed.

I'm responding to the earlier post essentially claiming that Butch is no better than Golden, because Butch lost 5 straight FSU games. I was pointing out that the comparison was utterly ridiculous, given that Butch dealt with actual scholarship reductions that were unprecedented at the time (outside of the SMU death penalty), and have not been matched since, with the exception of USC.

Golden, conversely, dealt with the threat of potential sanctions - aka the cloud. While I certainly agree that the cloud negatively impacted our recruiting, it is not remotely close to actually losing 30+ players, which completely eliminates depth.

And notwithstanding the cloud, Golden has still recruited more than enough talent to excel in the bottom-feeding ACC Coastal. In fact, our recruiting classes through the cloud years were consistenly at the top of the ACC Coastal, yet our results on the field have been consistently underwhelming, especially when we have played a legitimate team.

In short, equating the cloud to the sanctions Butch endured is laughable.

Exactly. Butch dealt with harsher sanctions and a MUCH darker cloud for just as long as Golden did. Difference is that Butch somehow, miraculously really, recruited and built the greatest team in cfb history. Golden has recruited well enough to win the Coastal and has failed to do so. We're still losing early games we should win in his 4th year. With HIS players. Recruiting classes that are consistently better than the teams to which we lose. It's been the coaching ALL along. Not the talent, as Golden continues to say.

In Butch's 5th year, we honestly should have been playing for the MNC, but ended up SMOKING a good Gator team in a BCS bowl. If anyone is projecting us to have similar results next year, I just don't know what to say. In his 4th year, Butch beat a good GaTech team in the Gator Bowl. We gonna do the same this year? That's why if we are not in a Dec 31/Jan 1st bowl game this year, with the talent we have, Golden must go.

 

[AsylumGodfather]

If we lose to FSU but blow out everyone else and win a bowl. Do you think Golden should stay?

**** **** NO!!!

 

[ncncanes]

No ---- but we wont get rid of him unless we go winless in the final 3 --- and even then, he would probably be given the opportunity to stay if he fired a few coaches --- it is how we role

 

[BoroCane83]

If we lose to FSU but blow out everyone else and win a bowl. Do you think Golden should stay?

I guess so. I think one thing people are a little misguided about is that somehow we SHOULD be beating FSU. I know they haven't looked as good as last year but this is still a team that's better than us. So if Miami loses but plays hard and makes it a good game, it's hard to come down on Golden for that...really.

The tone might be different if we didn't lose to a GT team we should have easily beat. Or didn't lose to a decent Louisville team that we had an entire off-season to prepare for and who didn't have their two star offensive players.

So now? Yeah, we have to beat FSU. BEcause for some reason 'maturing' and 'getting better' during the actual season as opposed to off-season practice/training is a legitimate excuse for some people.