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If if if on the DC

filmcane said:
IF Diaz keeps Baker...
IF Diaz can’t find a solid DC...
IF Diaz calls the plays next year...

Then Diaz needs to back up the Brinks truck and pay retail for position coaches.

I don’t want this scenario. We need a new DC and that dude needs to be an established, respected, P5 DC, not an up and comer.

HOWEVER, if the scenario at the top does play out, and in that scenario, Diaz gives the D nearly full time attention, then that could be a one year solution. It’s not what I want or what should happen, but unlike many on here, I do think Diaz is a good DC and given the athletes we’ll have, if you add stud position coaches, we can last one year.

ugggh... just do the Brinks truck thing and hire Strong, already.
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Diaz does not hold the purse strings.

How do you people not understand these things?
 
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r0fl_57omp7 said:
What was the reason that his scheme worked better in the years where he was a DC under Richt? Was it the 4-3? Is the 4-2-5 just a meme? Is it that other coaches have all figured it out by now? Lack of recruting on defense? All of the above??
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No Willis or McIntosh collapsing the pocket. Nesta should have been the next guy but he doesn’t have the moves. If he had a rip or swim with the bull rush, things would look a lot better.

Baker is a big downgrade.


The scheme leaves a lot of easy money for coordinators who attack the aggression as opposed to panicking or being stubborn.

Put it all together, we don’t look as good.
 
CaneSince4Ever said:
RJ occasionally shot gaps, but His main job was to tie up blocker(s) so the LBs could clean up.
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Nope. Kendrick Norton was the 1 technique tackle. He lined up between the center and guard and was tasked with eating blockers. RJ was three technique and was asked to shoot gaps and get in the backfield.

Without getting into a long discussion on scheme and technique, the major reason the defense fell flat this year after a solid four year run was poor DT play and the worst linebacker instincts I’ve ever seen. If you don’t have tackles that can hold the point and clog running lanes, they better be in the backfield every play. Our guys can’t do either.
 
Let’s face it. The talent on the D side took a step back at 7-8 of 11 spots.

DE- push to improved, Jackson/Garvin vs Phillips/Roche, then factor in depth
DT- declined
LB- declined
Striker- Push to declined, Finley played more consistent and was a bigger kid
CB- declined
S- declined

That isn’t to say that 21 these same kids can’t take another step and out perform past Ds. If I were to focus on 3 things:
CB play has to take a massive step to allow more man cover.
Penalties have to drop by 4-5/game on D.
Turnovers have to improve. How many INTs did we drop? Tackling as a group allows for more strips.
 
datcaneguy said:
Gerald Willis and RJ Mcintosh shooting gaps with extreme quickness. Redwine and Johnson to make clean up after the play gets to the third level of the defense. Pinckney and Shaq diagnosing plays quick
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Duh. Enough with this "scheme is garbage" nonsense. It was just fine in 2018 when Miami LITERALLY had a championship caliber defense. It's the same scheme. Baker just sucks at diagnosing offenses from play to play, so it suffers. And then exactly what you said. The kids running it this year were not nearly the same as 2018, or really any of the Diaz years.

And before anyone comes at me with "But 750 yards bro", I get it. I'm not defending anything we saw this year. We SHOULD be able to dominate weaker teams every week with the talent we do have. But the DTs this year were not great, the linebackers are literally on milk cartons around the country, the Safety play has taken a complete nosedive since Quan left and we haven't been able to replicate that at all. So miss me with the scheme is garbage nonsense. It has holes, certainly. Every defense does, but the elite coaches mask those holes with really good football players. So what you've seen recently is a decline in talent, opponents having more film on the defense, and a guy running it who simply isn't nearly as good at is as his mentor. Manny also traditionally made FANTASTIC adjustments, mid-game and at the half.

Miami was 6th in the country in opponents PPG in the 2nd half in 2016.
39th in 2017
12th in 2018
…………...
71st this year. Average of 14.0 points allowed in the 2nd half of games this season.

Baker is simply a step down from Manny as a DC. Simple as that.

From 2016-2018, we played 39 games. We allowed over 6 YPP three (3) times.
In 2020, we played 11 games. We allowed over 6 YPP four (4) times. 'Nuff said.
 
90scane said:
Let’s face it. The talent on the D side took a step back at 7-8 of 11 spots.

DE- push to improved, Jackson/Garvin vs Phillips/Roche, then factor in depth
DT- declined
LB- declined
Striker- Push to declined, Finley played more consistent and was a bigger kid
CB- declined
S- declined

That isn’t to say that 21 these same kids can’t take another step and out perform past Ds. If I were to focus on 3 things:
CB play has to take a massive step to allow more man cover.
Penalties have to drop by 4-5/game on D.
Turnovers have to improve. How many INTs did we drop? Tackling as a group allows for more strips.
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This is why it is really big to get people coming back that were rumored to bounce at some point: experience, depth and a non-covid year of development
 
CaneThang2020 said:
Soooooo....not the scheme as much as coaches getting the most out of the players?? Richt LB coach was Manny, and we give 56 and 55 a hard time but those guys did they job, didn't Shaq hit right around 80 tackles his Jr year....? So then we go Diaz LB coach is Baker and who inherited 2 Sr LBs who knew the scheme inside out w/o Bakers help, and Shaq goes for around 100 tackles his Sr year....then 1st year Baker has to ACTUALLY coach and develop his LB room our LBs flatline...??? That's Baker more than anyone else on staff, and Manny as HC CANNOT be a position coach as he doesn't have time for that as HC...idk if Rumph couldn't recruit or Banda overruled him or whichever way it went but CB was KILLING us because of lack of competition for snaps...LB killed us because we have a C- LB coach....MAYBE Diaz thinks taking DC responsibilities will help Baker be a good LB coach but I'm not buying it even though it looks like that's what we're all being force fed...
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Richt, for all his flaws, could manage a dc. manny could perform as a dc. don’t have to debate great vs meh, when he was managed, he was capable. the giant *** flaw in all this is manny had never run anything. so giving him the program was insane. he can’t even manage a dc! let that sink in. baker might be okay working for a competent head coach. maybe. people need direction and leadership. manny can’t manage him so d falls apart. he gives lashlee control of O and lashlee can apparently manage O without direction, which suggests he has some self structure and leadership skills.

manny isn’t a manager. it’s that simple. we appointed a head manager who was an analyst and not a manager. crazy, really. but james has no idea what he’s doing.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Richt, for all his flaws, could manage a dc. manny could perform as a dc. don’t have to debate great vs meh, when he was managed, he was capable. the giant *** flaw in all this is manny had never run anything. so giving him the program was insane. he can’t even manage a dc! let that sink in. baker might be okay working for a competent head coach. maybe. people need direction and leadership. manny can’t manage him so d falls apart. he gives lashlee control of O and lashlee can apparently manage O without direction, which suggests he has some self structure and leadership skills.

manny isn’t a manager. it’s that simple. we appointed a head manager who was an analyst and not a manager. crazy, really. but james has no idea what he’s doing.
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I still think it's weird how James was removed from the golden decision and mostly from the richt decision but unilaterally picked Manny. I think he's a guy who really struggles to fire anyone.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Duh. Enough with this "scheme is garbage" nonsense. It was just fine in 2018 when Miami LITERALLY had a championship caliber defense. It's the same scheme. Baker just sucks at diagnosing offenses from play to play, so it suffers. And then exactly what you said. The kids running it this year were not nearly the same as 2018, or really any of the Diaz years.

And before anyone comes at me with "But 750 yards bro", I get it. I'm not defending anything we saw this year. We SHOULD be able to dominate weaker teams every week with the talent we do have. But the DTs this year were not great, the linebackers are literally on milk cartons around the country, the Safety play has taken a complete nosedive since Quan left and we haven't been able to replicate that at all. So miss me with the scheme is garbage nonsense. It has holes, certainly. Every defense does, but the elite coaches mask those holes with really good football players. So what you've seen recently is a decline in talent, opponents having more film on the defense, and a guy running it who simply isn't nearly as good at is as his mentor. Manny also traditionally made FANTASTIC adjustments, mid-game and at the half.

Miami was 6th in the country in opponents PPG in the 2nd half in 2016.
39th in 2017
12th in 2018
…………...
71st this year. Average of 14.0 points allowed in the 2nd half of games this season.

Baker is simply a step down from Manny as a DC. Simple as that.

From 2016-2018, we played 39 games. We allowed over 6 YPP three (3) times.
In 2020, we played 11 games. We allowed over 6 YPP four (4) times. 'Nuff said.
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Literally?

The D that Wisconsin raped so bad Richt quit?

Championship D that gave up 24 to Toledo, 27 to each of GT and BC, 20 to Duke. That’s ‘literally a championship caliber d’?

The team that went 7-6 literally had a championship d?
 
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Ethnicsands said:
Richt, for all his flaws, could manage a dc. manny could perform as a dc. don’t have to debate great vs meh, when he was managed, he was capable. the giant *** flaw in all this is manny had never run anything. so giving him the program was insane. he can’t even manage a dc! let that sink in. baker might be okay working for a competent head coach. maybe. people need direction and leadership. manny can’t manage him so d falls apart. he gives lashlee control of O and lashlee can apparently manage O without direction, which suggests he has some self structure and leadership skills.

manny isn’t a manager. it’s that simple. we appointed a head manager who was an analyst and not a manager. crazy, really. but james has no idea what he’s doing.
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Jesus Christ, man. Do you think Dabo "manages" Venables? Does Riley "manage" Grinch? No, they get the **** out of the way!!!! How is it possible that people can be this ******* moronic? It's just football, for God's sake. A guy made a whole thread earlier about leaders, like this is the **** presidency. It's just ******* football. Get better players than the dude you're playing, and teach them how to use their talents to beat the guy in front of them.
 
canesstevealum08 said:
I still think it's weird how James was removed from the golden decision and mostly from the richt decision but unilaterally picked Manny. I think he's a guy who really struggles to fire anyone.
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his whole job is 84% hiring and firing. he’s proven bad at both skills.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Literally?

The D that Wisconsin raped so bad Richt quit?

Championship D that gave up 24 to Toledo, 27 to each of GT and BC, 20 to Duke. That’s ‘literally a championship caliber d’?

The team that went 7-6 literally had a championship d?
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By every single metric, slugger. Pair the 2018 defense with the 2020 offense and kicking game and you're 12-0 in Charlotte.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Jesus Christ, man. Do you think Dabo "manages" Venables? Does Riley "manage" Grinch? No, they get the **** out of the way!!!! How is it possible that people can be this ******* moronic? It's just football, for God's sake. A guy made a whole thread earlier about leaders, like this is the **** presidency. It's just ******* football. Get better players than the dude you're playing, and teach them how to use their talents to beat the guy in front of them.
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you obviously have no idea what you’re talking about.

venables is one of the best out there, and yes, absolutely, I am 100% certain dabo manages him. that’s the effing job of the head coach. just look at saban. if you think a head coach can just let his direct reports do whatever and survive in the role, you’re mistaken.

and your disparaging of leadership is really telling. you’ve got a lot of emotion swirling around your retort, but no logic. a major cfb program is not a pop warner team. it’s complex, requires a lot of coordination, decision making, planning, analysis, resource allocation, prioritization and personnel development. those are organizational requirements and the person in charge has to manage the organization to make sure it’s effectively accomplishing what is needed for success. it’s not just recruiting and scheme by any means. you seem to think it is, so you may be blake james. he’s clueless enough to wonder why it isn’t working.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
By every single metric, slugger. Pair the 2018 defense with the 2020 offense and kicking game and you're 12-0 in Charlotte.
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you’re insane. you probably glean the same idiocy from stats that manny does.

that d was not going to stop clemson or alabama. it didn’t even stop bc or tech, and gave up 24 to toledo.

lay off the orange and green crack pipe.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
it’s hardly a feather in the cap of an ad to observe (or contend) that he’s not even responsible for picking coaches.
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I'm not saying it should be a feather in his cap. I am merely saying that examples of being overruled for golden's firing in 2016 and the board forcing richt to make staff changes in 2018 were said to not be decisions of his. So I sometimes wonder what's the point in replacing him?
 
Ethnicsands said:
you obviously have no idea what you’re talking about.

venables is one of the best out there, and yes, absolutely, I am 100% certain dabo manages him. that’s the effing job of the head coach. just look at saban. if you think a head coach can just let his direct reports do whatever and survive in the role, you’re mistaken.

and your disparaging of leadership is really telling. you’ve got a lot of emotion swirling around your retort, but no logic. a major cfb program is not a pop warner team. it’s complex, requires a lot of coordination, decision making, planning, analysis, resource allocation, prioritization and personnel development. those are organizational requirements and the person in charge has to manage the organization to make sure it’s effectively accomplishing what is needed for success. it’s not just recruiting and scheme by any means. you seem to think it is, so you may be blake james. he’s clueless enough to wonder why it isn’t working.
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Again, it's football. Manny can't manage Baker, but Dabo manages Venables is as boring of a criticism as it gets. Let Venables say, "You know what? I feel like living in Miami. I wanna go coach the Hurricanes' defense" and see how good the defense is in a year or two. Think Manny will magically learn how to manage? Nooooooope. He'll have a competent coach working for him who knows what he's doing. I'm not saying Manny goes and sits in a corner, he's the CEO of the football program. He does a lot of what you mentioned, of course. But as far as what you see on Saturday's in Miami vs Clemson has 0.0% to do with how the head coach manages his coordinator.

And just since we're talking about Venables, who is obviously one of the very best in the game right now, there was a lot of talk this season about how much talent Clemson had lost on that side. The DL was depleted, they lost a lot to the NFL recently, and there were questions. Wanna know where they finished in defensive YPP allowed? 25th. Over 5 YPP allowed this year for the first time since 2013. But it's probably because Dabo wasn't managing him well.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Again, it's football. Manny can't manage Baker, but Dabo manages Venables is as boring of a criticism as it gets. Let Venables say, "You know what? I feel like living in Miami. I wanna go coach the Hurricanes' defense" and see how good the defense is in a year or two. Think Manny will magically learn how to manage? Nooooooope. He'll have a competent coach working for him who knows what he's doing. I'm not saying Manny goes and sits in a corner, he's the CEO of the football program. He does a lot of what you mentioned, of course. But as far as what you see on Saturday's in Miami vs Clemson has 0.0% to do with how the head coach manages his coordinator.

And just since we're talking about Venables, who is obviously one of the very best in the game right now, there was a lot of talk this season about how much talent Clemson had lost on that side. The DL was depleted, they lost a lot to the NFL recently, and there were questions. Wanna know where they finished in defensive YPP allowed? 25th. Over 5 YPP allowed this year for the first time since 2013. But it's probably because Dabo wasn't managing him well.
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You’re spinning and deflecting. your point is idiotic. Managing something effectively doesn’t guarantee success - it’s a competitive world and people are imperfect. However, managing things poorly (or barely) almost always ensures suboptimal outcomes.

You think dabo doesn’t manage venables? that’s just an idiotic view. it’s wrong. you could contend that there’s no proof he manages him well ... but i think the clemson program is pretty good evidence that dabo is, in fact, a good manager.

so you’re left with whether manny manages well. he has no experience managing and he’s done nothing to suggest he’s good at it. and there’s plenty of reason to doubt he is. but maybe you just fancy he’s a great manager. that’s your right.
 
Ethnicsands said:
you’re insane. you probably glean the same idiocy from stats that manny does.

that d was not going to stop clemson or alabama. it didn’t even stop bc or tech, and gave up 24 to toledo.

lay off the orange and green crack pipe.
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Every year, offensive records are broken, then broken again the next year, then the next, then the next. Wash, rinse, repeat. This year, in the NFL, there were more rushing AND receiving touchdowns scored than in any season in the history of the league. Ever. More TDs of both kind in any season, and they happened in the same year. This ridiculous notion that teams should be pitching shutouts every week is baffling to me. Every rule is geared towards the offense. Defense doesn't win championships anymore, offense does with some selective defense. Ask Uncle Nick about it. The most defensively minded coach you can possibly imagine admitted as such this season. Do people realize that a total of 15 teams gave up fewer than 20 points per game this year? 15.
 
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