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I spoke with a current player.

I would bet that any of the “hard-***” coaches; Saban and Bear Bryant (Junction Boys days) came off the most rigid in the frist few years to change a then existing mentality which they perceived as soft or entitled. Even Butch Davis was described in miuch the same way during the equally disastrous ’96 season. And whereas those coaches never became warm and fuzzy “player coaches” they did dial it back and let the players enforce the culture once they believed they had players who would do that.
 
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AtlAtty said:
I would bet that any of the “hard-***” coaches; Saban and Bear Bryant (Junction Boys days) came off the most rigid in the frist few years to change a then existing mentality which they perceived as soft or entitled. Even Butch Davis was described in miuch the same way during the equally disastrous ’96 season. And whereas those coaches never became warm and fuzzy “player coaches” they did dial it back and let the players enforce the culture once they believed they had players who would do that.
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Ask Tony Fitzpatrick about Schnellenberger's Breakfast Club, for missing curfew and/or late for practices or meetings. Remember, Schnelly was with Bear Bryant during the Junction Boys stuff. Tony told me, F around and miss curfew or late for practice if ya wanted...you'd be doing crab crawls at 5 a.m till you were vomiting.
 
#26-MEAST said:
I've been shouting that our Football IQ as a team is horrendous. Until we can add playing smart football to the list of team attributes we will continue underachieving.
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There's no doubt that we've recruited dumb players, but Lashlee was able to communicate with them and have success. His offence was incredibly simple, but clearly that's all the group from 2021-22 could handle.

If they need picture cards so you don't go 2 games without a TD, in the short-term so be it.
 
TooColdToHold said:
The guys from Footballville also mentioned last night that a player described the new environment as military-like.
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I always take "military-like" with a grain of salt. When people come from a glorified frat house, any environment with a semblance of structure and rules and suddenly they're acting like they've been shipped off to Parris Island.

Edit: Right when I posted that @HurricanePhilly posted exactly what I was thinking lol
 
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TooColdToHold said:
The guys from Footballville also mentioned last night that a player described the new environment as military-like.
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And they [players] would know this from playing Call of Duty?

Goodness the weakness and softness. Amazing they didn't lose every game.
 
AlexCane said:
Nothing earth-shaking, but this place is pretty slow now anyways. This player is an upperclassmen and was on Manny's teams too. Mature kid.

In no particular order:
  • He said that the guys that left had to leave. We've heard that a lot. Still hard for me to digest that 1/5 of the roster had to go.
  • He was "surprised" that Darrell Jackson left. He said his loss will hurt.
  • He said that the team would have won more games with Manny this season, but that long term, the team is better off with Mario.
  • I asked him what he thought of Mario. He said Mario is a "good dude" and "focused." And that he knows how he wants to handle things at this stage of his life. It sounds as if Mario is far more structured than Manny. No surprise there. But I did sense a little reservation re: his thoughts on Mario. Personally, I think Mario may want to dial down the drill sergeant routine, at least once he gets his fingerprints on the roster. I think that'll come with time, particularly when Mario's upper-classmen can teach the under-classmen how to do things.
  • He mentioned the injuries as a wild card this year. To my surprise, since I doubt many college-aged kids are familiar with this, he mentioned that this was not S&C but rather "bone" injuries (as he put it). That is a topic I don't want to discuss again but I'm pleased to hear that.
  • He said that there are some "good" rooms and some "bad rooms." I mentioned I thought TE was a good room and he agreed and said Arroyo is a beast.
  • He mentioned that Will has had 4 offensive coordinators in 5 years.
  • That of course led into the topic of our favorite OC.
    • I told him that I didn't think Gattis did a good job of putting pressure on the defense. Little to no tempo. The "check with me" permitted the defense time to take a breather and assess the play. And that the lack of spacing precluded a lot of 1-on-1 opportunities. (I probably should have mentioned the lack of a deep ball too!)
    • He said that that is kind of what he thought early in the season too, but that he spent time in the room and didn't know what else Gattis could have done.
    • He said that he was able to understand what Gattis was conveying but the offense in general wasn't able to. Things were simplified but not understood.
    • He said that day 1 stuff was not understood well into the season. Like foundational stuff.
    • He said we ran a lot of the same stuff we did with Lashlee but with a different terminology but kids couldn't get it. Is this a result of having so much turnover in the offensive staff??
    • He suggested maybe Gattis' failed in regard to communication-although he understood it. Some coaches/individuals have a way of connecting with 18-22 year old kids. It doesn't sound like Gattis was able to connect with the majority of the team.
    • So, apparently, we are not talented on offense and dumb. Luckily, we're no longer broke. Because broke, dumb, and bad would be a bad combination.
That's all I got.
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Interesting information. Appreciate you putting it out here
 
hoops156 said:
we didnt run the same **** lol. not even close. on top of that, gattis has never been a good OC nor has ever he called a good offensive game. he was bad at Michigan and bad at miami
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Bud, you can believe what you want to believe but that is what he told me.
 
SWFLHurricane said:
Ask Tony Fitzpatrick about Schnellenberger's Breakfast Club, for missing curfew and/or late for practices or meetings. Remember, Schnelly was with Bear Bryant during the Junction Boys stuff. Tony told me, F around and miss curfew or late for practice if ya wanted...you'd be doing crab crawls at 5 a.m till you were vomiting.
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Now that's the **** I'm used to.
 
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While the players do seem to display a very low football IQ so much of the time it all goes back to coaching.

A good coach should be able to coach 13-year-old or a 33-year-old player. You have to tailor the information to the players you have. It does little good to bang your head against a brick wall trying to teach a kid complex, difficult or advanced concepts if they are just unable to pick it up.

This is why Gattis and the rest of the staff fails. If you can’t get an offense to work unless you have 5* all over the place something is wrong. If you throw your hands up in the air and give up because you just don’t have the talent you want then you are not a good coach.

Pretty much all these players are talented and have been playing football since they were kids. If you cannot find a way to communicate to them, then it is really not all on the players. For God’s sake, if you have to, break out the Tecmo Bowl and call plays.
 
Just to clarify, since a few have mentioned it, this player didn't complain about the new structure or regime. It was my opinion that Mario may want to dial back the rigidity as he populates the team with more guys whom he can entrust to do things his way without needing to tell them.
 
NE Canes said:
While the players do seem to display a very low football IQ so much of the time it all goes back to coaching.

A good coach should be able to coach 13-year-old or a 33-year-old player. You have to tailor the information to the players you have. It does little good to bang your head against a brick wall trying to teach a kid complex, difficult or advanced concepts if they are just unable to pick it up.

This is why Gattis and the rest of the staff fails. If you can’t get an offense to work unless you have 5* all over the place something is wrong. If you throw your hands up in the air and give up because you just don’t have the talent you want then you are not a good coach.

Pretty much all these players are talented and have been playing football since they were kids. If you cannot find a way to communicate to them, then it is really not all on the players. For God’s sake, if you have to, break out the Tecmo Bowl and call plays.
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I agree. But I wonder from a college kid's perspective, how they can learn a new offensive system each year. I'm fairly confident Gattis is gone, but I really hope Mario nails the next hire and we have some stability for at least 2 and hopefully 3+ years with OC. Hire, fire, repeat isn't sustainable.
 
OldhamA said:
Lashlee wasn't walkin' through that door in 2022 - Diaz would have lost plenty.
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I don't think Lashlee was an exceptional playcaller or wunderkind Xs and Os scheme guy - what mattered was the tempo, spacing, and routes. It played to the strengths of the offense (both with King and TVD as QB- very different QBs). I doubt Diaz would have replaced Lashlee with someone who had a radically different approach. There are countless OCs at all levels of CFB that run a Mike Leach - inspired offense. Any of those guys likely would have picked up where Lashlee left off.
 
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It’s like the old saying, re: Gattis…it’s not what you know, it’s what your kids know and what you can teach
 
Spitting truth!! Lol!

"So, apparently, we are not talented on offense and dumb. Luckily, we're no longer broke. Because broke, dumb, and bad would be a bad combination".
 
Silver King said:
This was some interesting stuff, and as you said nothing earth shattering. Much has changed about college football since I played, but the locker rooms not so much; Teams don't usually expose much of what goes on in the inner sanctum of the locker room to outsiders. It's something you learn early in your career, like discussing injuries. Players seldom comment negatively on their coach, just as coaches do not publicly humiliate players when they make mistakes.

All stakeholders are aware of the routine, which is why the guys who go to the transfer portal thank God and the university for the opportunity and say they made great relationships and had fond memories as they slam the door shut behind them. It's hard for fans who see the season in soundbites and for a few hours on game day to grasp the enormity of it or how the pieces connect over an entire season, year, or career.

We talk about "Coach Speak." To me this was "Player Speak." Your player sounded pretty diplomatic, appears to have a buy-in, and is cautiously optimistic.

My favorite is that he understood Gattis's O but not many others did. Good for him! And as you noted, the reason our players couldn't get it is because we haven't done a great job recruiting kids with football smarts. A few years ago, the hot topic was corners who couldn't turn on the ball, which is a skill most corners learn in high school, not still having a problem with three years into their careers.
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Michigan recruited football smarts? they didnt do well w gattis either
 
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AlexCane said:
Nothing earth-shaking, but this place is pretty slow now anyways. This player is an upperclassmen and was on Manny's teams too. Mature kid.

In no particular order:
  • He said that the guys that left had to leave. We've heard that a lot. Still hard for me to digest that 1/5 of the roster had to go.
  • He was "surprised" that Darrell Jackson left. He said his loss will hurt.
  • He said that the team would have won more games with Manny this season, but that long term, the team is better off with Mario.
  • I asked him what he thought of Mario. He said Mario is a "good dude" and "focused." And that he knows how he wants to handle things at this stage of his life. It sounds as if Mario is far more structured than Manny. No surprise there. But I did sense a little reservation re: his thoughts on Mario. Personally, I think Mario may want to dial down the drill sergeant routine, at least once he gets his fingerprints on the roster. I think that'll come with time, particularly when Mario's upper-classmen can teach the under-classmen how to do things.
  • He mentioned the injuries as a wild card this year. To my surprise, since I doubt many college-aged kids are familiar with this, he mentioned that this was not S&C but rather "bone" injuries (as he put it). That is a topic I don't want to discuss again but I'm pleased to hear that.
  • He said that there are some "good" rooms and some "bad rooms." I mentioned I thought TE was a good room and he agreed and said Arroyo is a beast.
  • He mentioned that Will has had 4 offensive coordinators in 5 years.
  • That of course led into the topic of our favorite OC.
    • I told him that I didn't think Gattis did a good job of putting pressure on the defense. Little to no tempo. The "check with me" permitted the defense time to take a breather and assess the play. And that the lack of spacing precluded a lot of 1-on-1 opportunities. (I probably should have mentioned the lack of a deep ball too!)
    • He said that that is kind of what he thought early in the season too, but that he spent time in the room and didn't know what else Gattis could have done.
    • He said that he was able to understand what Gattis was conveying but the offense in general wasn't able to. Things were simplified but not understood.
    • He said that day 1 stuff was not understood well into the season. Like foundational stuff.
    • He said we ran a lot of the same stuff we did with Lashlee but with a different terminology but kids couldn't get it. Is this a result of having so much turnover in the offensive staff??
    • He suggested maybe Gattis' failed in regard to communication-although he understood it. Some coaches/individuals have a way of connecting with 18-22 year old kids. It doesn't sound like Gattis was able to connect with the majority of the team.
    • So, apparently, we are not talented on offense and dumb. Luckily, we're no longer broke. Because broke, dumb, and bad would be a bad combination.
That's all I got.
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So, do the posters of CIS think this is a normal type transition from what we've heard to be a "player's coach/best friend" like Manny to a more strict disciplinarian coach like Mario seems to be? I have ZERO inside information or sources. Absolutely none. All I can pull from is my personal time in the military, both in basic and in SMU (Special Mission Units) type units, and it sounds very similar to what you have described. When we first arrived the drill sergeants hounded us relentlessly. It didn't matter what happened everyone was getting punished and it was usually physical in nature ( a smoking to those who are familiar or who may have served). Some people didn't make it. But, once we were there for a while the drills backed off as we began to learn what was expected of us and leaders began to emerge and took charge within the trainee ranks. We began to police ourselves and put in the necessary work to perform or accomplish whatever task was assigned to us. Like it seems you explained in your post, we also had individuals who just couldn't seem to "pick up" the material no matter how dumbed downed (Barney styled) they presented it.

Again, this is not an apples to apples comparison but it seems to be relatable? There were drill sergeants (coaches in this scenario) that could explain everything down to the level of the lowest common denominator (dumb asses) and those that couldn't. Didn't mean they were terrible at their jobs but more simply that maybe they were best suited in another role. There were also trainees that no matter how hard the drills tried or pushed, they just weren't going to be able to keep up or assimilate. Individuals (trainees, aka players) who by natural ability, or learned ability, eventually came to the front and set the standard that the rest would follow. Is this maybe part of what is being experienced now? Again, I have no idea of the day to day within the program.

Note: I think Gattis should be gone because his scheme doesn't seem to fit and he does not seem to be able to scheme around deficient position groups or call plays in a way that sets up plays for later on in the game. And the recruiting from what we know or have been told by CIS is less than average. Plus, from what we hear, he's an *******. I guess time will tell on this matter.....

I will now prepare myself to annihilated by CIS... LOL
 
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