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Hurricane Football Politics *Best ACC LBS?*

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Canemang said:
Not the point, he said "coaches like Richt don't win championships", he didn't say "coaches like Richt with Heisman winning quarterbacks win championships".

The fact is, worse coaches than Richt have won a ship
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TouchMoney26 said:
Yes, thats exactly what im saying .. If we had Dabo or Jimbo or Saban and a new coach (possibly ken dorsey in there, ed reed for dbs) which would of all been very possible.. we would have won a natty
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Even Coker won
 
SmokeyBear said:
Chizik was smarter and better than Richt for 2 reasons:

1. Unlike Richt, Chizik didn't recruit Cam Newton to play Tight End.

2. Chizik won a NC with Cam Newton (#1 NFL Draft Pick). Richt didn't win ANYTHING with Matt Stafford (#1 NFL Draft Pick).

LET THAT SINK IN.....
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Those Stafford teams were stacked and clearly underperformed
 
jsy said:
Even Coker won
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Yeah... cuz the players RAN that team....... Shaq and our leaders DONT RUN ****... they are scared to be accountable -- nobody on the 2001 team would allow players to be lazy in practice... they would never allow dean to see the field cuz they are bringing the best out in all the top talents we have
 
TouchMoney26 said:
Richt is good Guidance counselor or academic advisor --- he doesnt have it in him to be a killer winner
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2008 was not a good year for cmr
Started out preseason number 1 in both major polls. Had stafford the number 1 pick in the draft, A.J. green, Moreno but finished outside the top 10. If he couldn’t win with that team I doubt he ever will win it all. He had more talent than any team that year

I still can’t believe he lost 3 games that year and none of his top guys got injured.
 
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Listen, we will never win a National Championship with Mark Richt. People really have to go ahead and accept that. But, he can turn the program's tailspin back to being a prominent program that wins 10+ games most years and when he retires allow us to get a more aggressive coach who will finally take us back to a Natty game. That is what happened to Georgia and past history is the best predictor or present and future behavior.
 
orange&green84 said:
Averaged 10 wins a year is a bit different than only mustering up 2 wins, dip****.
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Too bad they do not give out national championships for winning 10 games. LOL

10 wins per year, and losses to Vanderbilt and being 5-10 against Florida, got him fired.
 
Insanecane said:
Listen, we will never win a National Championship with Mark Richt. People really have to go ahead and accept that. But, he can turn the program's tailspin back to being a prominent program that wins 10+ games most years and when he retires allow us to get a more aggressive coach who will finally take us back to a Natty game. That is what happened to Georgia and past history is the best predictor or present and future behavior.
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That's our best hope....
 
Every time I see a post like this it stinks of a fan from another team trying to scare off recruits.
Number1CanesFan said:
Sorry Dude, but NO. We didn't and still don't have the talent level and depth for a national title. We are moving in the right direction. However, to say any of the coaches you mentioned would have won a national title with last years roster is just asinine. Let me digress.

First off, Saban, Dabo, and Jimbo won national titles because they had top level recruits at the positions that matter. Jimbo and Dabo won a Natty because they had a difference maker at QB along with elite talent on other offensive skill positions and had elite defensive lines. As for Saban, he has won national titles because his teams are stacked with top 4' and 5 star recruits that are future 1st and 2nd round draft picks.

Saban CAN'T win a championship with a good team. He wins with only with great teams. Otherwise, Saban would have won a championship at Michigan State and would have stayed in Miami and won a Super Bowl with the Dolphins. As a pure coach, I think Saban is just average as far as X's and O's. As a CEO and recruiter, he is elite. I don't know how he got so many elite players to go to Alabama in the early years. There is a suspicious smell to the situation that we may never know. Since the program is elite, it's any easy sell to top recruits. They just keep the machine greased if you know what I mean.

In my opinion, Saban could never compete in the NFL because talent is spread out due to draft position and salary caps. His whole winning formula is predicated on having the best talent and more of it than anyone else. Think about it. Imagine that in every draft, the Dolphins had only 1st and 2nd round draft picks. Year after year being able to select the most elite players to your roster while everyone else get 2-4 players in the first two rounds and the rest of their roster from the 2-7 rounds. This is what Saban has and does. That's the whole key to his success. So, I'm really not impressed with that. I think it sucks that only a handful of teams can completely load up their roster in college football. I don't think the playing field is level as we know bag money has played a roll. IMO, I think bag money plays a big roll or at least in the beginning to get the elite recruits coming in. Once that pipeline is established, the program is less reliant on it.

Of the 3 coaches (Saban, Jimbo, and Dabo) I am most impressed with Dabo and least impressed with Saban. Dabo rebuilt Clemson after some really bad years. He did and does so without a big recruiting base in South Carolina and relies on Georgia and Florida (sadly) for his biggest recruiting. It took him 7+ years to build the program to elite level. Saban on the other hand was quite different. In 2007, his first year at Alabama his team went 7-6. The very next year they had the #3 recruiting class in the nation and went 12-2. How does a guy come in and after a mediocre year and have the #1 recruiting class from a program that had been on a down slide for years? It doesn't add up. What about a 7-6 team would make a bunch of elite players want to go to Alabama? From a recruits perspective, there would have been nothing about the team to think, "Alabama was 7-6, but I could see myself winning a national title there!!!!" NO F'ING WAY!!!!! Alabama's record from 2003 - 2007 was:

2003 - 4W-9L, 2004 - 6W-6L, 2005 - 10W-2L, 2006 - 6W-7L, 2007 - 7W-6L

There is nothing about the 5-year span from 2003 - 2007 that would have made recruits want to flock to Alabama. On the other hand, Auburn during that same 5-year time span had the following record:

2003 - 8W-5L, 2004 - 13W-0L, 2005 - 9W-3L, 2006 - 11W-2L, 2007 - 9W-4L

So, in a 5 year span where Auburn was a superior team to Alabama, Nick Saban comes in, has a mediocre season, then starts recruiting top 3 class for then next 10 years. In 2007, Alabama had 3 5-stars and 21 4-stars while Auburn had 0 5-stars and 6 4-stars. Think about it. Saban has had top 3 classes every year since his arrival in Alabama where that ended in 2018 with the #5 recruiting class.

Interestingly enough, Dabo became the head coach at Clemson about the same time Saban started at Alabama. Clemson has only had a top 10 class once in the last 5 years. Clemson's recruiting classes from 2008-present were:

2008 - 9th, 2009 - 36th, 2010 - 27th, 2011 - 10th, 2012 - 20th, 2013 - 15th, 2014 - 16th, 2015 - 9th, 2016 - 11th, 2017 - 16th, 2018 - 7th

So, really in the last 5 years has Clemson had solid top 10 recruiting. For 2017, Clemson had a small class of only 14 players of which they had 2 5-stars and 8 4-stars. Clemson has had on 3 top 10 classes in the last 10 years and had its best class in 2018 at 7th. Therefore, for the past 5 years, you would have to say Dabo has done more with less than Saban has despite Saban having won multiple championships in that time frame.

In conclusion, I think Richt is doing just fine. It took Dabo 7 years to build Clemson into what it is now. I believe Richt will have the Canes at national elite level in year 4 or 5 (2019 or 2020). We need 2 more top 10 recruiting classes and we'll have championship level depth at all positions.
Click to expand...

Mf’ing This!!
Saban didn’t invent the wheel. He’s a ceo that hires and gets the best talent. Business 101.
People need to stop scaring recruits about our staff and stop sunshine pumping dudes that benefit from shady recruiting.
 
Every time I see a post like this it stinks of a fan from another team trying to scare off recruits.
Number1CanesFan said:
Sorry Dude, but NO. We didn't and still don't have the talent level and depth for a national title. We are moving in the right direction. However, to say any of the coaches you mentioned would have won a national title with last years roster is just asinine. Let me digress.

First off, Saban, Dabo, and Jimbo won national titles because they had top level recruits at the positions that matter. Jimbo and Dabo won a Natty because they had a difference maker at QB along with elite talent on other offensive skill positions and had elite defensive lines. As for Saban, he has won national titles because his teams are stacked with top 4' and 5 star recruits that are future 1st and 2nd round draft picks.

Saban CAN'T win a championship with a good team. He wins with only with great teams. Otherwise, Saban would have won a championship at Michigan State and would have stayed in Miami and won a Super Bowl with the Dolphins. As a pure coach, I think Saban is just average as far as X's and O's. As a CEO and recruiter, he is elite. I don't know how he got so many elite players to go to Alabama in the early years. There is a suspicious smell to the situation that we may never know. Since the program is elite, it's any easy sell to top recruits. They just keep the machine greased if you know what I mean.

In my opinion, Saban could never compete in the NFL because talent is spread out due to draft position and salary caps. His whole winning formula is predicated on having the best talent and more of it than anyone else. Think about it. Imagine that in every draft, the Dolphins had only 1st and 2nd round draft picks. Year after year being able to select the most elite players to your roster while everyone else get 2-4 players in the first two rounds and the rest of their roster from the 2-7 rounds. This is what Saban has and does. That's the whole key to his success. So, I'm really not impressed with that. I think it sucks that only a handful of teams can completely load up their roster in college football. I don't think the playing field is level as we know bag money has played a roll. IMO, I think bag money plays a big roll or at least in the beginning to get the elite recruits coming in. Once that pipeline is established, the program is less reliant on it.

Of the 3 coaches (Saban, Jimbo, and Dabo) I am most impressed with Dabo and least impressed with Saban. Dabo rebuilt Clemson after some really bad years. He did and does so without a big recruiting base in South Carolina and relies on Georgia and Florida (sadly) for his biggest recruiting. It took him 7+ years to build the program to elite level. Saban on the other hand was quite different. In 2007, his first year at Alabama his team went 7-6. The very next year they had the #3 recruiting class in the nation and went 12-2. How does a guy come in and after a mediocre year and have the #1 recruiting class from a program that had been on a down slide for years? It doesn't add up. What about a 7-6 team would make a bunch of elite players want to go to Alabama? From a recruits perspective, there would have been nothing about the team to think, "Alabama was 7-6, but I could see myself winning a national title there!!!!" NO F'ING WAY!!!!! Alabama's record from 2003 - 2007 was:

2003 - 4W-9L, 2004 - 6W-6L, 2005 - 10W-2L, 2006 - 6W-7L, 2007 - 7W-6L

There is nothing about the 5-year span from 2003 - 2007 that would have made recruits want to flock to Alabama. On the other hand, Auburn during that same 5-year time span had the following record:

2003 - 8W-5L, 2004 - 13W-0L, 2005 - 9W-3L, 2006 - 11W-2L, 2007 - 9W-4L

So, in a 5 year span where Auburn was a superior team to Alabama, Nick Saban comes in, has a mediocre season, then starts recruiting top 3 class for then next 10 years. In 2007, Alabama had 3 5-stars and 21 4-stars while Auburn had 0 5-stars and 6 4-stars. Think about it. Saban has had top 3 classes every year since his arrival in Alabama where that ended in 2018 with the #5 recruiting class.

Interestingly enough, Dabo became the head coach at Clemson about the same time Saban started at Alabama. Clemson has only had a top 10 class once in the last 5 years. Clemson's recruiting classes from 2008-present were:

2008 - 9th, 2009 - 36th, 2010 - 27th, 2011 - 10th, 2012 - 20th, 2013 - 15th, 2014 - 16th, 2015 - 9th, 2016 - 11th, 2017 - 16th, 2018 - 7th

So, really in the last 5 years has Clemson had solid top 10 recruiting. For 2017, Clemson had a small class of only 14 players of which they had 2 5-stars and 8 4-stars. Clemson has had on 3 top 10 classes in the last 10 years and had its best class in 2018 at 7th. Therefore, for the past 5 years, you would have to say Dabo has done more with less than Saban has despite Saban having won multiple championships in that time frame.

In conclusion, I think Richt is doing just fine. It took Dabo 7 years to build Clemson into what it is now. I believe Richt will have the Canes at national elite level in year 4 or 5 (2019 or 2020). We need 2 more top 10 recruiting classes and we'll have championship level depth at all positions.
Click to expand...

Mf’ing This!!
Saban didn’t invent the wheel. He’s a ceo that hires and gets the best talent. Business 101.
People need to stop scaring recruits about our staff and stop sunshine pumping dudes that benefit from shady recruiting.
 
pacusmc said:
Every time I see a post like this it stinks of a fan from another team trying to scare off recruits.


Mf’ing This!!
Saban didn’t invent the wheel. He’s a ceo that hires and gets the best talent. Business 101.
People need to stop scaring recruits about our staff and stop sunshine pumping dudes that benefit from shady recruiting.
Click to expand...
pacusmc said:
Every time I see a post like this it stinks of a fan from another team trying to scare off recruits.


Mf’ing This!!
Saban didn’t invent the wheel. He’s a ceo that hires and gets the best talent. Business 101.
People need to stop scaring recruits about our staff and stop sunshine pumping dudes that benefit from shady recruiting.
Click to expand...
Not sure how to interpret your response. I'm not in anyway glorifying Saban. If anything, I tried to shed some light that their rise in 2007 looks shady.

We have good coaches and I think some of them are great!!! We just needs more dudes to get to that championship level. We are on our way. I believe this 2018 class gets a championship.
 
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Number1CanesFan said:
Not sure how to interpret your response. I'm not in anyway glorifying Saban. If anything, I tried to shed some light that their rise in 2007 looks shady.

We have good coaches and I think some of them are great!!! We just needs more dudes to get to that championship level. We are on our way. I believe this 2018 class gets a championship.
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i think the first response was for another poster my bad.
The second response I was agreeing with you and pointing out that all these dudes (not you) acting like saban is this great developer of talent and an xo mastermind is overblown.
You’re correct that at our foundation right now the sky is the limit and with more depth there is no reason we can’t be on par with anyone in the country. But we also need retaining kids for theire last year of eligibility. What top teams do is keep rj and Norton for one more year while also keeping surtain and cambel home This team right now would be in a very different position with just four players and we wouldn’t have to be scrambling for db’s again. We’re still not at a full 85 either I think
 
pacusmc said:
i think the first response was for another poster my bad.
The second response I was agreeing with you and pointing out that all these dudes (not you) acting like saban is this great developer of talent and an xo mastermind is overblown.
You’re correct that at our foundation right now the sky is the limit and with more depth there is no reason we can’t be on par with anyone in the country. But we also need retaining kids for theire last year of eligibility. What top teams do is keep rj and Norton for one more year while also keeping surtain and cambel home This team right now would be in a very different position with just four players and we wouldn’t have to be scrambling for db’s again. We’re still not at a full 85 either I think
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I agree with you. It will happen in due time
We need to break thru by winning the ACC Championship and getting to the CFP.

I think 2019 and 2020 will give us the best chance to get there. Once we make the playoffs, the flood gates will open. New IPF + New Dorms + Wins = Top 5 Recruits = National Championship
 
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