How would a one-gap 4-3 defense fix our issues?

[blackvern]

Vegas Franklin, Eric moncur and Terez McCray

We had a dt who was 255 and a de who was 245 starting and stopping the run in 2007 and were good. If they played in this system they would get dominated just like we are today.. We need to move to a 4-3

 

[LuCane]

Vegas Franklin, Eric moncur and Terez McCray

We had a dt who was 255 and a de who was 245 starting and stopping the run in 2007 and were good. If they played in this system they would get dominated just like we are today.. We need to move to a 4-3

3-4 and 4-3 aren't the issues. The big question Coach Golden will have to mull over is "are we asking our current and future DL to do something that doesn't maximize our talent?" The only part that scares me is that he will simply refuse to even consider the question. I keep telling myself he's shown evidence of being practical in other areas (specifically, roster management), so he'll do the same here.

 

[Otowncane]

Seriously if so obvious why is golden and dorito sticking to this offensive defense.

 

[Fzac75]

What's funny is the same people I have read and heard complaining were the same exact ones complaining and saying the 4-3 base we ran was antiquated and *****ing and moaning about Radio's defense.

Could care less about scheme or this coach and that coach. Could care less if Dorito is fired or not. The most overrated thing fans do is coaches an their impact. Yes they have an impact but not as much as most people think. After hearing from so many players say the same thing I've grown as a fan to understand. Players make the coaches not the coaches make the players. You have playmakers you have a "genius coach" and a "genius scheme".

Where was the "genius" of Belichick when he coached at Cleveland and basically run out of football cus if his time there? Thank God Jerry rice and Joe Montana had Walsh and Seifert if not thy would've sucked. Could you imagine Marino without Shula? Out of the league in 3 years. Jerome Brown and the rest of those canes would've sucked without Jimmy, of course. Those Nebraska teams are really great flu for the genius of Osborne making them better than they are. Jameis Winston would suck *** without the scheme and play calling of Dumbo Fisher too.

Players, players, players first and foremost then worry about scheme or coaching.

Still no excuse for Duke game, but it's a big part too

 

[LuCane]

What's funny is the same people I have read and heard complaining were the same exact ones complaining and saying the 4-3 base we ran was antiquated and *****ing and moaning about Radio's defense.

Could care less about scheme or this coach and that coach. Could care less if Dorito is fired or not. The most overrated thing fans do is coaches an their impact. Yes they have an impact but not as much as most people think. After hearing from so many players say the same thing I've grown as a fan to understand. Players make the coaches not the coaches make the players. You have playmakers you have a "genius coach" and a "genius scheme".

Where was the "genius" of Belichick when he coached at Cleveland and basically run out of football cus if his time there? Thank God Jerry rice and Joe Montana had Walsh and Seifert if not thy would've sucked. Could you imagine Marino without Shula? Out of the league in 3 years. Jerome Brown and the rest of those canes would've sucked without Jimmy, of course. Those Nebraska teams are really great flu for the genius of Osborne making them better than they are. Jameis Winston would suck *** without the scheme and play calling of Dumbo Fisher too.

Players, players, players first and foremost then worry about scheme or coaching.

Still no excuse for Duke game, but it's a big part too

Because it's rarely about scheme, specifically. It's about what we decide to do with it. When I complained about what Randy was doing, it was because he was getting comfortable showing the same looks over and over. That has its positives, but then teams began to take advantage of it. I think Randy agreed with the complaints because he started to adjust and mix stuff in more. ****, at one point, we saw Sharpton mix his usual underneath chasing with zone and it led to a pick-6. That was probably one of the happiest moments during that miserable time period.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

Vegas Franklin, Eric moncur and Terez McCray

We had a dt who was 255 and a de who was 245 starting and stopping the run in 2007 and were good. If they played in this system they would get dominated just like we are today.. We need to move to a 4-3

3-4 and 4-3 aren't the issues. The big question Coach Golden will have to mull over is "are we asking our current and future DL to do something that doesn't maximize our talent?" The only part that scares me is that he will simply refuse to even consider the question. I keep telling myself he's shown evidence of being practical in other areas (specifically, roster management), so he'll do the same here.

What the man says publicly and what he's "actually considering" could be two drastically different things. I refuse to believe that he "refuses to consider the question". IMO there are 100's of variables that go into a decision like this.

We (fans) take a couple dozen of those variables and express our feelings in definite. I understand why everyone is upset and wants better and is frustrated with the perceived lack of progress on the defensive side of the ball. I think the detractors, for the most part, have valid concerns.

I just think the overreaction on here has been epic and premature. None of us truly know what Al's ultimate goal is for this defense and how he wants to get there. That's why I think the real question is and always has been "do you trust Al (based on his past history & deductive reasoning) to make the correct decisions" moving forward?

Based on his past history of fielding solid (not great) defenses and building a solid program @ Temple (from the ashes) is proof enough for me (at this point). Will we ever win big with Al? I think that is a solid question that right now, I'm not sure anyone can answer. I still think he will.

 

[Supercane85]

We should move to a 4-3 cover 2 defense. Randy Shannon with the same players would have the defense in the top 15 or maybe 10 based on the easy schedule we had.

Randy Shannon would better maximize the talent we have. I am not sure why D’Onofrio allows for teams to scheme Perryman (our best LB) outside the box. Why do we have Perryman standing by the hashes guarding a slot receiver?

Golden and Coach D’onofro fail to utilize their athletic secondary and speed at LB. Randy would have feasted off our secondary.

Randy would have the following line up

Boundary Corner = Gunter/Burns- They would provide great press coverage and have length and speed would give WR’s fits
Field Side Corner = Crawford- He has the speed to play well in this position
Nickle/Slot Corner = Howard
FS – Jenkins
SS – Bush

Randy would play press coverage sort of like he did in this game against FSU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOG-k_72gpM

 

[LuCane]

Vegas Franklin, Eric moncur and Terez McCray

We had a dt who was 255 and a de who was 245 starting and stopping the run in 2007 and were good. If they played in this system they would get dominated just like we are today.. We need to move to a 4-3

3-4 and 4-3 aren't the issues. The big question Coach Golden will have to mull over is "are we asking our current and future DL to do something that doesn't maximize our talent?" The only part that scares me is that he will simply refuse to even consider the question. I keep telling myself he's shown evidence of being practical in other areas (specifically, roster management), so he'll do the same here.

What the man says publicly and what he's "actually considering" could be two drastically different things. I refuse to believe that he "refuses to consider the question". IMO there are 100's of variables that go into a decision like this.

We (fans) take a couple dozen of those variables and express our feelings in definite. I understand why everyone is upset and wants better and is frustrated with the perceived lack of progress on the defensive side of the ball. I think the detractors, for the most part, have valid concerns.

I just think the overreaction on here has been epic and premature. None of us truly know what Al's ultimate goal is for this defense and how he wants to get there. That's why I think the real question is and always has been "do you trust Al (based on his past history & deductive reasoning) to make the correct decisions" moving forward?

Based on his past history of fielding solid (not great) defenses and building a solid program @ Temple (from the ashes) is proof enough for me (at this point). Will we ever win big with Al? I think that is a solid question that right now, I'm not sure anyone can answer. I still think he will.

Without a doubt re: his public vs private comments. I've said the same dozens of times. I also understand we may seem to have less variables at our disposal. Some of the posters have a bit more because they're privy to certain comments or perspectives from within the team.

If you mean that the overreaction of "Golden should be fired" or "Golden is a piece of ****" is epic and premature. I agree. Personally, I try to keep the reaction focused to what's happening on the field against teams and how that relates to what will happen on the field against future teams. You saw my answer to your thread on whether we still believed in Al or thought he'd win a Championship. I basically said I think he's here for a while.

As for your new question on whether to blindly trust Coach Golden, I think it's a question worth posing to everyone. You hit it in your last sentence as to what's my biggest concern. I would like for us to maximize whatever talent we get. And, being in South Florida, we have access to some really good talent. I think the jury is still out on whether he'll make the necessary moves (whatever they may be) to make that happen. I sure as **** hope so. It'd be the quickest way to our success.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Vegas Franklin, Eric moncur and Terez McCray

We had a dt who was 255 and a de who was 245 starting and stopping the run in 2007 and were good. If they played in this system they would get dominated just like we are today.. We need to move to a 4-3

3-4 and 4-3 aren't the issues. The big question Coach Golden will have to mull over is "are we asking our current and future DL to do something that doesn't maximize our talent?" The only part that scares me is that he will simply refuse to even consider the question. I keep telling myself he's shown evidence of being practical in other areas (specifically, roster management), so he'll do the same here.

What the man says publicly and what he's "actually considering" could be two drastically different things. I refuse to believe that he "refuses to consider the question". IMO there are 100's of variables that go into a decision like this.

We (fans) take a couple dozen of those variables and express our feelings in definite. I understand why everyone is upset and wants better and is frustrated with the perceived lack of progress on the defensive side of the ball. I think the detractors, for the most part, have valid concerns.

I just think the overreaction on here has been epic and premature. None of us truly know what Al's ultimate goal is for this defense and how he wants to get there. That's why I think the real question is and always has been "do you trust Al (based on his past history & deductive reasoning) to make the correct decisions" moving forward?

Based on his past history of fielding solid (not great) defenses and building a solid program @ Temple (from the ashes) is proof enough for me (at this point). Will we ever win big with Al? I think that is a solid question that right now, I'm not sure anyone can answer. I still think he will.

Without a doubt re: his public vs private comments. I've said the same dozens of times. I also understand we may seem to have less variables at our disposal. Some of the posters have a bit more because they're privy to certain comments or perspectives from within the team.

If you mean that the overreaction of "Golden should be fired" or "Golden is a piece of ****" is epic and premature. I agree. Personally, I try to keep the reaction focused to what's happening on the field against teams and how that relates to what will happen on the field against future teams. You saw my answer to your thread on whether we still believed in Al or thought he'd win a Championship. I basically said I think he's here for a while.

As for your new question on whether to blindly trust Coach Golden, I think it's a question worth posing to everyone. You hit it in your last sentence as to what's my biggest concern. I would like for us to maximize whatever talent we get. And, being in South Florida, we have access to some really good talent. I think the jury is still out on whether he'll make the necessary moves (whatever they may be) to make that happen. I sure as **** hope so. It'd be the quickest way to our success.

I wonder about the "square peg, round hole" argument regarding South Florida kids.

I think it would be foolish to try to run a precision pro-style passing attack with guys like Shoelace Robinson and Jeffrey Godfrey at QB.

But is our current defensive scheme anathema to South Florida talent?

I don't know the answer to that, but it seems to have become conventional wisdom. Maybe our guys can't/won't thrive in this system, but generally speaking, I think they should.

 

[weownfsu]

None of this is going to fix our issues because we can't get kids to play hard, we can't get them to play aggressive, and they quit on the coaches.

 

[CanesAreAble]

What's funny is the same people I have read and heard complaining were the same exact ones complaining and saying the 4-3 base we ran was antiquated and *****ing and moaning about Radio's defense.

Could care less about scheme or this coach and that coach. Could care less if Dorito is fired or not. The most overrated thing fans do is coaches an their impact. Yes they have an impact but not as much as most people think. After hearing from so many players say the same thing I've grown as a fan to understand. Players make the coaches not the coaches make the players. You have playmakers you have a "genius coach" and a "genius scheme".

Where was the "genius" of Belichick when he coached at Cleveland and basically run out of football cus if his time there? Thank God Jerry rice and Joe Montana had Walsh and Seifert if not thy would've sucked. Could you imagine Marino without Shula? Out of the league in 3 years. Jerome Brown and the rest of those canes would've sucked without Jimmy, of course. Those Nebraska teams are really great flu for the genius of Osborne making them better than they are. Jameis Winston would suck *** without the scheme and play calling of Dumbo Fisher too.

Players, players, players first and foremost then worry about scheme or coaching.

Still no excuse for Duke game, but it's a big part too

Because it's rarely about scheme, specifically. It's about what we decide to do with it. When I complained about what Randy was doing, it was because he was getting comfortable showing the same looks over and over. That has its positives, but then teams began to take advantage of it. I think Randy agreed with the complaints because he started to adjust and mix stuff in more. ****, at one point, we saw Sharpton mix his usual underneath chasing with zone and it led to a pick-6. That was probably one of the happiest moments during that miserable time period.

That's kinda what I was getting at.

I don't think 59 and 31 would be optimized in our old system (or any system).

They're not big, they're not strong, they're not fast, and they're not highly instinctual. I don't know how you scheme around that.

Our front 7 is leaking right now.

 

[LuCane]

Vegas Franklin, Eric moncur and Terez McCray

We had a dt who was 255 and a de who was 245 starting and stopping the run in 2007 and were good. If they played in this system they would get dominated just like we are today.. We need to move to a 4-3

3-4 and 4-3 aren't the issues. The big question Coach Golden will have to mull over is "are we asking our current and future DL to do something that doesn't maximize our talent?" The only part that scares me is that he will simply refuse to even consider the question. I keep telling myself he's shown evidence of being practical in other areas (specifically, roster management), so he'll do the same here.

What the man says publicly and what he's "actually considering" could be two drastically different things. I refuse to believe that he "refuses to consider the question". IMO there are 100's of variables that go into a decision like this.

We (fans) take a couple dozen of those variables and express our feelings in definite. I understand why everyone is upset and wants better and is frustrated with the perceived lack of progress on the defensive side of the ball. I think the detractors, for the most part, have valid concerns.

I just think the overreaction on here has been epic and premature. None of us truly know what Al's ultimate goal is for this defense and how he wants to get there. That's why I think the real question is and always has been "do you trust Al (based on his past history & deductive reasoning) to make the correct decisions" moving forward?

Based on his past history of fielding solid (not great) defenses and building a solid program @ Temple (from the ashes) is proof enough for me (at this point). Will we ever win big with Al? I think that is a solid question that right now, I'm not sure anyone can answer. I still think he will.

Without a doubt re: his public vs private comments. I've said the same dozens of times. I also understand we may seem to have less variables at our disposal. Some of the posters have a bit more because they're privy to certain comments or perspectives from within the team.

If you mean that the overreaction of "Golden should be fired" or "Golden is a piece of ****" is epic and premature. I agree. Personally, I try to keep the reaction focused to what's happening on the field against teams and how that relates to what will happen on the field against future teams. You saw my answer to your thread on whether we still believed in Al or thought he'd win a Championship. I basically said I think he's here for a while.

As for your new question on whether to blindly trust Coach Golden, I think it's a question worth posing to everyone. You hit it in your last sentence as to what's my biggest concern. I would like for us to maximize whatever talent we get. And, being in South Florida, we have access to some really good talent. I think the jury is still out on whether he'll make the necessary moves (whatever they may be) to make that happen. I sure as **** hope so. It'd be the quickest way to our success.

I wonder about the "square peg, round hole" argument regarding South Florida kids.

I think it would be foolish to try to run a precision pro-style passing attack with guys like Shoelace Robinson and Jeffrey Godfrey at QB.

But is our current defensive scheme anathema to South Florida talent?

I don't know the answer to that, but it seems to have become conventional wisdom. Maybe our guys can't/won't thrive in this system, but generally speaking, I think they should.

I don't know if it's specific to South Florida guys, though I do think *some* of it is valid. Actually, I know some of it is valid because I've heard it from the players. Our best hope is that adjustments are made within this system. Coach Golden is here for the long haul, IMO. As I've said like 20 times, I would be surprised if he cuts off D'Ono and goes to a new style. Something extreme would have to happen in these last two games. I don't expect that against UVA and Pitt. So, you add all that together and we can hope that our guys will look better in this system and the coaches will trust them to do more with it as they get older. Things to look out for? Will our DL be asked to play different assignments?

As someone (who I won't mention b/c I'm not sure he wants to be involved) told me off the board, that doesn't explain why someone like Kirby still hasn't replaced someone like Gaines. There are 2nd year guys starting at schools with excellent defenses.

 

[CanesAreAble]

None of this is going to fix our issues because we can't get kids to play hard, we can't get them to play aggressive, and they quit on the coaches.

I would've disagreed until the Virginia Tech and Duke games.

It'll be interesting to see how they respond down the stretch. That could tell us a lot.

 

[LuCane]

What's funny is the same people I have read and heard complaining were the same exact ones complaining and saying the 4-3 base we ran was antiquated and *****ing and moaning about Radio's defense.

Could care less about scheme or this coach and that coach. Could care less if Dorito is fired or not. The most overrated thing fans do is coaches an their impact. Yes they have an impact but not as much as most people think. After hearing from so many players say the same thing I've grown as a fan to understand. Players make the coaches not the coaches make the players. You have playmakers you have a "genius coach" and a "genius scheme".

Where was the "genius" of Belichick when he coached at Cleveland and basically run out of football cus if his time there? Thank God Jerry rice and Joe Montana had Walsh and Seifert if not thy would've sucked. Could you imagine Marino without Shula? Out of the league in 3 years. Jerome Brown and the rest of those canes would've sucked without Jimmy, of course. Those Nebraska teams are really great flu for the genius of Osborne making them better than they are. Jameis Winston would suck *** without the scheme and play calling of Dumbo Fisher too.

Players, players, players first and foremost then worry about scheme or coaching.

Still no excuse for Duke game, but it's a big part too

Because it's rarely about scheme, specifically. It's about what we decide to do with it. When I complained about what Randy was doing, it was because he was getting comfortable showing the same looks over and over. That has its positives, but then teams began to take advantage of it. I think Randy agreed with the complaints because he started to adjust and mix stuff in more. ****, at one point, we saw Sharpton mix his usual underneath chasing with zone and it led to a pick-6. That was probably one of the happiest moments during that miserable time period.

That's kinda what I was getting at.

I don't think 59 and 31 would be optimized in our old system (or any system).

They're not big, they're not strong, they're not fast, and they're not highly instinctual. I don't know how you scheme around that.

Our front 7 is leaking right now.

I don't think 59 or 31 would be playing over Figs and Kirby.

 

[zone3cane]

None of this is going to fix our issues because we can't get kids to play hard, we can't get them to play aggressive, and they quit on the coaches.

that's why Miami needs a DC and defensive staff w/ no ties to Golden's pathetic coaching *** that knows how to light a fire w/o sounding like a ****** like Dorito.....

Make Golden just "run the program" but have ZERO control over plays and what happens in games thats the only way Miami has a chance at being respectable under him.

Golden can just run Special Teams ONLY which he sucks at too but i'm just trying to give his *** a bone.

Get a New Defensive staff, (Keep Barrow).... and stop forcing players to play out of position which has done nothing but hamper the new recruits and older players progression.

Chich was never suppose to be a 3-4 DE and there isnt a linebacker on this team that was meant to play in a 3-4 scheme.

Get a 4-3 scheme that allows the players to make plays instead of thinking about being in the right space all game and i think that would bring life back to this defense.

 

[CanesAreAble]

3-4 and 4-3 aren't the issues. The big question Coach Golden will have to mull over is "are we asking our current and future DL to do something that doesn't maximize our talent?" The only part that scares me is that he will simply refuse to even consider the question. I keep telling myself he's shown evidence of being practical in other areas (specifically, roster management), so he'll do the same here.

What the man says publicly and what he's "actually considering" could be two drastically different things. I refuse to believe that he "refuses to consider the question". IMO there are 100's of variables that go into a decision like this.

We (fans) take a couple dozen of those variables and express our feelings in definite. I understand why everyone is upset and wants better and is frustrated with the perceived lack of progress on the defensive side of the ball. I think the detractors, for the most part, have valid concerns.

I just think the overreaction on here has been epic and premature. None of us truly know what Al's ultimate goal is for this defense and how he wants to get there. That's why I think the real question is and always has been "do you trust Al (based on his past history & deductive reasoning) to make the correct decisions" moving forward?

Based on his past history of fielding solid (not great) defenses and building a solid program @ Temple (from the ashes) is proof enough for me (at this point). Will we ever win big with Al? I think that is a solid question that right now, I'm not sure anyone can answer. I still think he will.

Without a doubt re: his public vs private comments. I've said the same dozens of times. I also understand we may seem to have less variables at our disposal. Some of the posters have a bit more because they're privy to certain comments or perspectives from within the team.

If you mean that the overreaction of "Golden should be fired" or "Golden is a piece of ****" is epic and premature. I agree. Personally, I try to keep the reaction focused to what's happening on the field against teams and how that relates to what will happen on the field against future teams. You saw my answer to your thread on whether we still believed in Al or thought he'd win a Championship. I basically said I think he's here for a while.

As for your new question on whether to blindly trust Coach Golden, I think it's a question worth posing to everyone. You hit it in your last sentence as to what's my biggest concern. I would like for us to maximize whatever talent we get. And, being in South Florida, we have access to some really good talent. I think the jury is still out on whether he'll make the necessary moves (whatever they may be) to make that happen. I sure as **** hope so. It'd be the quickest way to our success.

I wonder about the "square peg, round hole" argument regarding South Florida kids.

I think it would be foolish to try to run a precision pro-style passing attack with guys like Shoelace Robinson and Jeffrey Godfrey at QB.

But is our current defensive scheme anathema to South Florida talent?

I don't know the answer to that, but it seems to have become conventional wisdom. Maybe our guys can't/won't thrive in this system, but generally speaking, I think they should.

I don't know if it's specific to South Florida guys, though I do think *some* of it is valid. Actually, I know some of it is valid because I've heard it from the players. Our best hope is that adjustments are made within this system. Coach Golden is here for the long haul, IMO. As I've said like 20 times, I would be surprised if he cuts off D'Ono and goes to a new style. Something extreme would have to happen in these last two games. I don't expect that against UVA and Pitt. So, you add all that together and we can hope that our guys will look better in this system and the coaches will trust them to do more with it as they get older. Things to look out for? Will our DL be asked to play different assignments?

As someone (who I won't mention b/c I'm not sure he wants to be involved) told me off the board, that doesn't explain why someone like Kirby still hasn't replaced someone like Gaines. There are 2nd year guys starting at schools with excellent defenses.

I think Kirby is a good point.

Perhaps Golden values upperclassmen leadership and experience to a fault. Maybe he doesn't want to bench the guys who have been great leaders and ambassadors for the program.

The counter-argument is Figueroa. He was running with the ones until maybe he got overwhelmed. Don't know.

 

[LuCane]

Figs looked like **** in coverage a few times I saw him.

I'm not sure he's a counter-argument to your question of "what would he look like if he were asked to do something else?"

 

[Coach Macho]

I think there's a "misconception" about 1 gap defense and "allows us to get upfield". You don't just "shoot your gap and get up field". We'd still be engaging the O-linemen and controlling your gap the vast majority of the time.

The stance is totally different and although you're still expected to be physical and control your gap, you're allowed to put weight on your front hand and get off the ball. This allows us to create our own line of scrimmage.

 

[Coach Macho]

SDE - Chickillo, Green, Hamilton?Kamalu?
3DT - Robinson, Pierre, Hamilton?Kamalu?
1DT - Porter, Renfrow
WDE - McCord, AQM, Cain

SLB - Figs, Armbrister
MLB - Kirby, Gaines
WLB - Perryman, Cornelius?


I gotta believe that would be better than what we're currently trotting out there.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Figs looked like **** in coverage a few times I saw him.

I'm not sure he's a counter-argument to your question of "what would he look like if he were asked to do something else?"

He was counter-argument to getting on the field early, as opposed to Kirby who's getting limited snaps behind Gaines.