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High School “Powerhouses” lifting coaches...any accountability?

Hmmmmm 🤔.... I always wondered why Armwood puts out bust after bust. Matt Jones, Ryan Giddens, and Matt Patchan (and he was a “bust” also) has probably been the most successful.

From Demetrius McCray, Calvin Bailey, Jariett Buie, Torrey Davis, Eric and Petey Smith, Angelo Hadley, Mywan Jackson, Alvin Bailey, Bryan Cowart, and Brian Sneed will also be a bust.
 
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AUcane said:
this is (sadly) commonplace in HS athletics. I'm just guessing but my guess is that you have glorified PE teachers or coaches not trained in any form of weight training certification which amounts to "go lift ****" types of regimens.
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Most likely the head football coach is also the PE "teacher" and weight coach which makes it even worse.
 
Drewny1 said:
If he is talking about Pinder at Armwood, name the last one from that school that amounted to anything?
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I have no idea who he was talking about. I am just talking about the general premise of his statement. If a kid spends 90% of his gym work doing bicep curls and other BS and still makes it to the P5. The kid is obviously a great athlete and with good coaching will surpass all expectations.
 
MISTER OWL said:
You have a point, but, it is much harder for a kid to regain mobility and learn technique in a college atmosphere vs a high school atmosphere. At the college level, they have to unlearn, relearn, and regain mobility while have added responsibilities in life. High school atmosphere is a lot more relaxed and the appropriate level to learn technique.

To me, it just means that they have to redshirt just to accomplish the consideration of being a football athlete. I find it extremely hard to consider someone a P5 athlete who does not even have the mobility to perform a simple clean. That's pretty pathetic.
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I highly doubt the kids can't perform cleans because of mobility. These guys aren't doing ATG olympic cleans. The power clean requires very minimal mobility. A couple weeks of foam rolling the lats and stretching them out will build enough for any 18-19 year old to be able to PC correctly.

Also, 18-19 year old are going to regain mobility pretty easily. Yes, it is harder to relearn proper form, than learn it correct the first time. but its not that hard to learn to squat, deadlift, bench, etc. Sure they are going to need to drop the weights at first, but within a couple months they should be lifting heavier than they did with poor form.

Especially with the power clean. YOu can't cheat a clean. If you are cleaning 315 incorrectly, as soon as you learn proper form that is going to skyrocket.
 
MISTER OWL said:
Thought same thing before I saw clips
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There is 0 chance their power clean form is due to mobility issues. They probably just have no idea how to do them properly. What are they doing incorrectly not getting their elbows high enough? If the kid is not mobile enough to catch a clean in a quarter squat the kid isn't going to even be able to sit on the bench because he is so immobile. Let alone get actual burn on a hs field.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
There is 0 chance their power clean form is due to mobility issues. They probably just have no idea how to do them properly. What are they doing incorrectly not getting their elbows high enough? If the kid is not mobile enough to catch a clean in a quarter squat the kid isn't going to even be able to sit on the bench because he is so immobile. Let alone get actual burn on a hs field.
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I’ll preface this by saying I completely understand sacrificing form doing max weight. But when they are doing reps I expect good form.

For starters, he needed to raise the bar because he didn’t have either hip or ankle mobility to properly grab the bar without rounding his back. Then no lats were involved, it was very arm-y. There were no squats. I seriously doubt the kid(s) could get low enough to be considered by a college S&C to be a squat
 
MISTER OWL said:
I’ll preface this by saying I completely understand sacrificing form doing max weight. But when they are doing reps I expect good form.

For starters, he needed to raise the bar because he didn’t have either hip or ankle mobility to properly grab the bar without rounding his back. Then no lats were involved, it was very arm-y. There were no squats. I seriously doubt the kid(s) could get low enough to be considered by a college S&C to be a squat
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The squat mobility I will give you. he certainly may not have the mobility to hit parallel on squat, but the kid has the mobility to be able to keep a straight back on power cleans. I would bet anything on that. Just because he doesn't understand he needs to, does not mean he lacks the ankle mobility.

Also, sacrificing form for weight is true on bench where you can over arch. Or Press where you can lean back. Or even squat where you can either just not go as far down or good morning the weight up if your quads aren't strong enough.

BUT on the power clean, using bad form to get the weight up doesn't exist. IF you use improper form you are not going to be able to lift as much. That is a fact.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
The squat mobility I will give you. he certainly may not have the mobility to hit parallel on squat, but the kid has the mobility to be able to keep a straight back on power cleans. I would bet anything on that. Just because he doesn't understand he needs to, does not mean he lacks the ankle mobility.

Also, sacrificing form for weight is true on bench where you can over arch. Or Press where you can lean back. Or even squat where you can either just not go as far down or good morning the weight up if your quads aren't strong enough.

BUT on the power clean, using bad form to get the weight up doesn't exist. IF you use improper form you are not going to be able to lift as much. That is a fact.
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Honestly, I can guarantee you that you know more than I do. Thank you for posting
 
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i got fcs offers and group of 5 offers coming out of high school and couldnt bench 300 playing O TACKLE.

We had NOOOO off season program, and our s&c was our coach telling us to get an LA Fitness membership...TRU STORY.. This is early 2000s south florida...and we put 2 guys in the nfl and a solid amount of guys div 1, fcs, div 2.

That sh*t dont really matter whatever you learn in high school they are gonna re arrange 1st week in college.

Me and my close friends still joke on what our s&c/off season program was and the untapped talent we had left if we had a real off season or s%c program..the schools in my area that i could remember that had legit was Chaminade Madonna, Miami Pace, Miami Central, Miramar. St Thomas
 
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DTP said:
If it's a public school, it's because there's no budget for a weight coach. Head coaches make peanuts, assistants make very little to nothing. Most do it because they love the game and the kids.

If it's a private "powerhouse' program, there's no excuse. They've got money to burn.
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Exactly!
 
MISTER OWL said:
First off, I did not want to mention any kid’s names because it’s really not their fault.

I was watching a P5 high school recruit’s video of him tying to clean and he displayed atrocious technique and mobility. The kid has spent his whole high school career at a “powerhouse” that has excellent facilities. Then I watched his teammates lifts and they were equally ugly.

Two thoughts:
1. How does a 17 year old not have the mobility to perform the lift? At that age, a coach should be able to have the athlete regain the necessary ranges of motion in a couple of months at the most. But how do they even let him lose that range of motion if he has been there for multiple years? And if he does not have the mobility, why is he performing the lifts?

2. If this is a high school powerhouse, how are they not teaching these kids the most basic techniques? Literally every single segmentation of movement was pure sh*t. Arms and lower back.

There is no way those kids can step into a college program and contribute. They are an automatic redshirt just so they gain the minimum mobility to be considered an athlete. They are an injury waiting to happen. And I put the blame on the high school coaches.

There is no excuse for a P5 football prospect to not be taught how to lift weight correctly.

Pathetic. Rant over.
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It depends on where you are at. in Florida coaches don't get paid well so they cannot attract and pay for good strength coaches. This turns into the coaches doing it themselves and just rah rahing the kids instead of teaching technique.
As a C.S.C.S. I feel as tho every school should have one and it should be mandatory for ALL athletes to take weight training as a class and get their lift in with a competent coach. Instead of being hurt like I was.
It's sad how disgraceful some of these videos kids post are.
 
HurricaneTheology said:
I am saying this as a NSCA:CSCS (Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist), and I have been coaching High school strength programs for 11 years.

I believe two things are at work:
1) Very few schools have strength and conditioning professionals. Do not let fancy picturesque facilities fool you...
2) Most "strength" coaches only know how to regurgitate the programs they performed in college. Just because they performed heavy olympic movements in the 1980s obviously means they program and "teach" heavy Olympic movements in 2019.

There is such an obsession with heavier weights whether on the barbell or the body... and quality of movement is completely overlooked.
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This X100000000
 
zeeblet01 said:
It depends on where you are at. in Florida coaches don't get paid well so they cannot attract and pay for good strength coaches. This turns into the coaches doing it themselves and just rah rahing the kids instead of teaching technique.
As a C.S.C.S. I feel as tho every school should have one and it should be mandatory for ALL athletes to take weight training as a class and get their lift in with a competent coach. Instead of being hurt like I was.
It's sad how disgraceful some of these videos kids post are.
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The weight training instructors were just the football coaches at my high school. I took three years of weight training and never lifted a weight. It was a free A if you showed up to class.
 
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Any player out there want to be a baller and stay a star, and don't have to worry about the liftin coach trying to be all up breakin yo spine, crushing your larynx, tearin' ACLs..... come to Southlake Carroll.
 
TheSwagger1 said:
Any player out there want to be a baller and stay a star, and don't have to worry about the liftin coach trying to be all up breakin yo spine, crushing your larynx, tearin' ACLs..... come to Southlake Carroll.
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TheSwagger1 said:
Any player out there want to be a baller and stay a star, and don't have to worry about the liftin coach trying to be all up breakin yo spine, crushing your larynx, tearin' ACLs..... come to Southlake Carroll.
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Underrated post.
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
You could have benched 300...you weren’t trying....don’t give me that
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No lie i never really cared to lift and had long arms. Had no s&c until college and even then it was subpar. Im telling you ..they told us to take weight training as a class...(which had like a 70 yr old teacher in there and we would work out for like 30 mins and shoot the sh*t) and coach told us to get an la fitness membership lmao. Sh*t was remarkable we won good amount of games and put guys into college let alone 2 nfl players.
 
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