Final Four vs. UCONN - 4/1 8:49pm EDT on CBS

Your entire argument is based on a couple of bad weeks in Big East play.

UConn was 17-0 outside of the Big East. They were ranked #1 at the end of non-conference play and finished #1 in Kenpom. Them being a 4 seed was a bad case of underseeding, they absolutely deserved a 3.

And they won their NCAAT games by an average of 20 pts. They were a juggernaut during the tourney, and that's all that really matters
they scored 76, 72, 88, 85 in four fo their tournament games. they didnt really struggle at all. they were def a dominant tourney team and one of the most dominant ones since the second nova title team
 
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went to the NC game last night. That SDSU game was a carbon copy of ours aside from the two early threes from SDSU. their inside looks were completely taken away and shot poorly as everything was tough. its a shame bc if we could have gotten hot against UCONN (like a 7/10 type pack game from the outside), we def win the NC this year bc i think were the next best team
 
UCONN had elite length, tremendous athleticism, dominant size in the paint, and shot makers on the outside.

They were a well coached team that played tenacious defense.

I don’t know about historically good, but they were the best team this year by a wide margin.

Based upon performance, we were the 2nd best team this year… size in the post was our weakness that ultimately got exploited by a team that could keep up with us on the perimeter and dominate us in the interior.
 
UConn was the hottest team during March Madness but they certainly are not some unbeatable juggernaut. Here are the facts:

1) They lost 6 out of 8 games at the beginning of Big East conference play;

2) They finished fourth in the regular season standings in the Big East behind Marquette, Xavier and Creighton (and essentially tied with Providence);

3) They did not win the Big East Tournament;

4) They were a four seed in the NCAA Tournament; and

5) Their own coach said they were pretty mediocre when they didn't play good D at the beginning of conference play.

Does that sound like a great or dominant team to you? If you didn't know the outcome of the NCAA Tournament and someone just told you those five facts at the beginning of the Tournament, would you have viewed them as a juggernaut and likely winner of a National Championship?

There really weren't any great teams this year. UConn had size/quality bigs, quality depth, strong shot selection and no holes. They played very good defense in the NCAA Tournament. They also seemed the most comfortable on the big stage. They were not a historically great team like the Running Rebels of UNLV that won an NCAA tournament game with a score of 131-101 and scored 100 points in the Championship game (an all-time record). UConn barely broke 70 in most of their Tournament games. They were a good solid team that was hot at the right time. Their defense (defensive rebounds, blocked shots & size requiring opponents to alter their shots in the paint) was a major reason they won plus Hawkins, Karaban and Calcaterra made timely shots fairly consistently. We certainly could have beaten them but we absolutely bricked it most of the game and lost by around 4-5 buckets.
Wow. Tough crowd. Yes, no question UConn a had a rough stretch in Big East play, which Hurley attributed to his coaching mistakes and the team not playing defense like they typically do. He admitted he wasn't using Andre Jackson correctly and let the team go away from what they did best. Things got away from him but he reeled them back in. While you're quick to point out UConn had a 2-6 stretch in conference play, you seem to be completely discounting the 14-0 start of the season and the 15-2 end of season sandwiched around that 2-6 stretch. You focus on 2-6 but ignore 29-2 in all the other games? Umm, OK. I'd also like to point out that Marquette (29 wins), Xavier (27 wins), Creighton (24 wins) and Providence (21 wins) aren't exactly slouches. Yes, some losses were inexplicable, like losing to St. John's at home. Not saying that the Big East is as strong a conference as your ACC conference because it's not, but there's no shame in losing to good teams. There's a reason their hasn't been an undefeated D1 men's team since 1976.... it ain't easy to win them all. You pigeon hole UConn as just a solid team, but then go on to list why they're more than that (highlighted above) and why they were so dominant in the tournament. News flash: They've been doing those things all season.

One last thing regarding your comment "UConn barely broke 70 in most of their tournament games". For the record, they scored 87, 70, 88, 82, 72 and 76 in their tournament games. Just sayin'.

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion and I respect that, especially as a visitor to your board. I'm just having a point-counterpoint conversation with you. I hope you understand it's nothing more. It's OK if we agree to disagree. To all Miami fans: Have a safe offseason. I hope both our teams have a successful run next year. Peace to all.
 
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UCONN had elite length, tremendous athleticism, dominant size in the paint, and shot makers on the outside.

They were a well coached team that played tenacious defense.

I don’t know about historically good, but they were the best team this year by a wide margin.

Based upon performance, we were the 2nd best team this year… size in the post was our weakness that ultimately got exploited by a team that could keep up with us on the perimeter and dominate us in the interior.
To your point about coaching, we pressed then twice full court and ran a half court trap once. All 3 ended in dunks
SDSU pressed them once. Layup.
This team was well prepared and had the single most significant mismatch at any position in the tourney in Sanogo. Surrounding him with shooters as they did makes it virtually impossible to beat them without someone having a crazy offensive night. Sanogo could not be double teamed because of the shooting, and could not be stopped 1 on 1, especially when he was getting position 3 feet from the basket.
 
To your point about coaching, we pressed then twice full court and ran a half court trap once. All 3 ended in dunks
SDSU pressed them once. Layup.
This team was well prepared and had the single most significant mismatch at any position in the tourney in Sanogo. Surrounding him with shooters as they did makes it virtually impossible to beat them without someone having a crazy offensive night. Sanogo could not be double teamed because of the shooting, and could not be stopped 1 on 1, especially when he was getting position 3 feet from the basket.

Is Sanogo gone or is he coming back?
 
Wow. Tough crowd. Yes, no question UConn a had a rough stretch in Big East play, which Hurley attributed to his coaching mistakes and the team not playing defense like they typically do. He admitted he wasn't using Andre Jackson correctly and let the team go away from what they did best. Things got away from him but he reeled them back in. While you're quick to point out UConn had a 2-6 stretch in conference play, you seem to be completely discounting the 14-0 start of the season and the 15-2 end of season sandwiched around that 2-6 stretch. You focus on 2-6 but ignore 29-2 in all the other games? Umm, OK. I'd also like to point out that Marquette (29 wins), Xavier (27 wins), Creighton (24 wins) and Providence (21 wins) aren't exactly slouches. Yes, some losses were inexplicable, like losing to St. John's at home. Not saying that the Big East is as strong a conference as your ACC conference because it's not, but there's no shame in losing to good teams. There's a reason their hasn't been an undefeated D1 men's team since 1976.... it ain't easy to win them all. You pigeon hole UConn as just a solid team, but then go on to list why they're more than that (highlighted above) and why they were so dominant in the tournament. News flash: They've been doing those things all season.

One last thing regarding your comment "UConn barely broke 70 in most of their tournament games". For the record, they scored 87, 70, 88, 82, 72 and 76 in their tournament games. Just sayin'.

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion and I respect that, especially as a visitor to your board. I'm just having a point-counterpoint conversation with you. I hope you understand it's nothing more. It's OK if we agree to disagree. To all Miami fans: Have a safe offseason. I hope both our teams have a successful run next year. Peace to all.
UConn was the best team in the tourney and it really was not close. Sure they did not play like a #1 team all season, hence their #4 seed. But anyone who watched their first 2 games and knows basketball immediately saw that this was the best team in the tourney. Any other conclusion is just foolish.
 
UCONN had elite length, tremendous athleticism, dominant size in the paint, and shot makers on the outside.

They were a well coached team that played tenacious defense.

I don’t know about historically good, but they were the best team this year by a wide margin.

Based upon performance, we were the 2nd best team this year… size in the post was our weakness that ultimately got exploited by a team that could keep up with us on the perimeter and dominate us in the interior.
You don’t get the whole picture when you attend the game. Had good seats but still a football stadium at the end of the day. Watching them on tv last night they were hands down the best team in country and all of the preseason poll voters should lose their rights immediately for not having that team ranked.

Agree on everything you said. They were extremely impressive all tournament and agree we were the 2nd best team unfortunately. In my opinion They would win a 7 game series against us rather comfortably
 
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Is Sanogo gone or is he coming back?
I can’t imagine he isn’t a 1st round pick. The player I use as a comp for Sanogo is Zac Randolph. NIL is nice money, but 3-4 long term NBA contracts is multi generational money. I know Zac a little bit and his great grandkids are set for life as long as no one goes crazy with gambling or drugs.
 
I can’t imagine he isn’t a 1st round pick. The player I use as a comp for Sanogo is Zac Randolph. NIL is nice money, but 3-4 long term NBA contracts is multi generational money. I know Zac a little bit and his great grandkids are set for life as long as no one goes crazy with gambling or drugs.
hes going to have to develop range (but he showed a bit of that w the two wide open threes). hard to play the randolph in todays NBA esp w how skilled bigs are now. Bam is kinda going through some of it (lack of range not necessarily skill).
 
UConn was the best team in the tourney and it really was not close. Sure they did not play like a #1 team all season, hence their #4 seed. But anyone who watched their first 2 games and knows basketball immediately saw that this was the best team in the tourney. Any other conclusion is just foolish.

While it may seem to be a logical conclusion that because UConn won the NCAA tournament, they were the best team in the tournament...that isn't necessarily the case. Why? The NCAA tournament certainly makes Final Four participants earn a championship BUT here are factors that make identifying the "best" team an inexact science:

1) Which bracket you end up in can make a world of difference. Miami's opponents were a Murderer's Row (Houston (#1), Texas (#2), Indiana (#4) & UConn (National Champion)) and a pretty darn tough path to the Championship Game. UConn's path to the Championship Game was easier. FAU's path was Memphis, FDU, Tennessee and Kansas State. To me, FAU's path looks significantly easier than ours was. So, a good team that's in an "easy" bracket may get hot at the right time & advance a long way but that doesn't necessarily mean they are one of the best teams in the tourney -- they were partly just in the right place at the right time;

2) The fact that no #1 seeds made it to the Final Four and FAU was a 9 seed and UM & SDSU were 5 seeds shows just how inexact a science it is identifying a "true" champion. Why? When the tournament seedings are that far wrong (and they were massively wrong this year), one team could have a much easier path to the Final Four than another. FAU was one buzzer beater away from making the Championship Game. I was really impressed by the athleticism & moxy of FAU. Do I think they are the 2nd, 3rd or 4th best team in Men's College BB? The answer is "no." I don't think they would have fared as well playing in the Big East, SEC or ACC (due to the grind & higher level of competition). That's not to diminish FAU as they did in fact have a great tournament run (for 5 games) and a strong regular season record albeit against lesser competition. Here are just some of the teams that I think were better than FAU this year overall: UConn, Marquette, Creighton, Texas, Kansas, Miami, Duke, UVA, Alabama, & Houston. So, I'd rank them 11th even though they finished one buzzer beater away from the Championship Game; and

3) Some teams participating in March Madness have injuries at inopportune times. For example, Texas's big man was injured. That could have made all the difference for them. We'll never know because he was unavailable at the worst possible time. Not saying that Texas was better than UConn but it does highlight how crippling an untimely injury can be in the NCAA Tournament. We experienced this with Norchad's inury in the ACC Tournament. You could just sense that we were going to lose against Duke once Norchad got injured. We had destroyed Duke earlier in the season (when healthy). Injuries are a big reason why the "best team" may not always win the Tournament.

UConn was beaten by Marquette in the Big East Tournament. That was a pretty recent event (right before the NCAA Tournament). Marquette also won the Regular Season Championship in the Big East (with UConn fourth in conference play). I'm a Wharton grad (in addition to attending Miami) and to me I'd rather look at large sample sizes than small sample sizes. There's a very valid argument that UConn wasn't even the best team in their conference...let alone the NCAA Tournament (because Marquette, Xavier & Creighton all beat them in the regular season in the Big East standings -- a much larger sample size -- and Marquette won the Big East Tournament...and those teams did play in the NCAA Tournament). What is indisputable is that UConn won the NCAA Tournament and looked good doing it in a six-game stretch.
 
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hes going to have to develop range (but he showed a bit of that w the two wide open threes). hard to play the randolph in todays NBA esp w how skilled bigs are now. Bam is kinda going through some of it (lack of range not necessarily skill).
Agreed. But I always say that if a player is a decent (70%) free throw shooter, that player can develop a decent mid range shot. From the free throw shooting in the final game, he looks like he has some touch. Just like Omier. I think both will be OK in the league.
Sanogo would benefit from playing on a team where the “center” plays away from the basket and let Sanogo play down low. Think of him playing with Robin Lopez or Kristaps Porzingis who are stretch 5’s. He would not work with Embiid or Ayton or traditional low post centers.
 
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While it may seem to be a logical conclusion that because UConn won the NCAA tournament, they were the best team in the tournament...that isn't necessarily the case. Why? The NCAA tournament certainly makes Final Four participants earn a championship BUT here are factors that make identifying the "best" team an inexact science:

1) Which bracket you end up in can make a world of difference. Miami's opponents were a Murderer's Row (Houston (#1), Texas (#2), Indiana (#4) & UConn (National Champion)) and a pretty darn tough path to the Championship Game. UConn's path to the Championship Game was easier. FAU's path was Memphis, FDU, Tennessee and Kansas State. To me, FAU's path looks significantly easier than ours was. So, a good team that's in an "easy" bracket may get hot at the right time & advance a long way but that doesn't necessarily mean they are one of the best teams in the tourney -- they were partly just in the right place at the right time;

2) The fact that no #1 seeds made it to the Final Four and FAU was a 9 seed and UM & SDSU were 5 seeds shows just how inexact a science it is identifying a "true" champion. Why? When the tournament seedings are that far wrong (and they were massively wrong this year), one team could have a much easier path to the Final Four than another. FAU was one buzzer beater away from making the Championship Game. I was really impressed by the athleticism & moxy of FAU. Do I think they are the 2nd, 3rd or 4th best team in Men's College BB? The answer is "no." I don't think they would have fared as well playing in the Big East, SEC or ACC (due to the grind & higher level of competition). That's not to diminish FAU as they did in fact have a great tournament run (for 5 games) and a strong regular season record albeit against lesser competition. Here are just some of the teams that I think were better than FAU this year overall: UConn, Marquette, Creighton, Texas, Kansas, Miami, Duke, UVA, Alabama, & Houston. So, I'd rank them 11th even though they finished one buzzer beater away from the Championship Game; and

3) Some teams participating in March Madness have injuries at inopportune times. For example, Texas's big man was injured. That could have made all the difference for them. We'll never know because he was unavailable at the worst possible time. Not saying that Texas was better than UConn but it does highlight how crippling an untimely injury can be in the NCAA Tournament. We experienced this with Norchad's inury in the ACC Tournament. You could just sense that we were going to lose against Duke once Norchad got injured. We had destroyed Duke earlier in the season (when healthy). Injuries are a big reason why the "best team" may not always win the Tournament.

UConn was beaten by Marquette in the Big East Tournament. That was a pretty recent event (right before the NCAA Tournament). Marquette also won the Regular Season Championship in the Big East (with UConn fourth in conference play). I'm a Wharton grad (in addition to attending Miami) and to me I'd rather look at large sample sizes than small sample sizes. There's a very valid argument that UConn wasn't even the best team in their conference...let alone the NCAA Tournament (because Marquette, Xavier & Creighton all beat them in the regular season in the Big East standings -- a much larger sample size -- and Marquette won the Big East Tournament...and those teams did play in the NCAA Tournament). What is indisputable is that UConn won the NCAA Tournament and looked good doing it in a six-game stretch.
All great points. UConn had some luck with health and brackets, and I’m not comparing then to UNLV 1990 (IMO the best single season team ever), but UConn also has the most talent when healthy. I know I keep over simplifying this but Sanogo literally could not be guarded 1 on 1 by any player they faced. Maybe Drew Timme would have had a chance, but Omier was overwhelmed which says a lot. And because they have enough shooting around him, UConn came into every game with a mismatch. And I would argue the single most significant mismatch for any player in the tourney.

So I see a team with very, very good coaching (see perfectly executed press breakers), the most significant matchup advantage and good shooting. That should work almost every season. I’m clueless as to what happened in the regular season as I didn’t watch UConn play until the tourney.
 
What’s the point of trying to downplay how good UConn’s run was?
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh because it makes us feel better,

John Krasinski GIF
 
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Agreed. But I always say that if a player is a decent (70%) free throw shooter, that player can develop a decent mid range shot. From the free throw shooting in the final game, he looks like he has some touch. Just like Omier. I think both will be OK in the league.
Sanogo would benefit from playing on a team where the “center” plays away from the basket and let Sanogo play down low. Think of him playing with Robin Lopez or Kristaps Porzingis who are stretch 5’s. He would not work with Embiid or Ayton or traditional low post centers.
embiid is diff than ayton. though he does play down low, he also can score from everywhere but hes also a generational talent so not a lot of embiids or jokics running around.
 
embiid is diff than ayton. though he does play down low, he also can score from everywhere but hes also a generational talent so not a lot of embiids or jokics running around.
Agreed as to Emaid and Jokic. But I’m a Sixers fan going back to 1977 so don’t get me started on Embiid v Jokic. I can lose myself in that argument.
 
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