Evals

[JHallCanes]

Lots of heated debates on the recruiting board when it comes to this. I’m not familiar with his time at Oregon tbh but wanted to mark this thread for future discussion

I’m just trying to present data and then we can analyze this together since I’m not entirely sure how the process went with some guys and of course it’s VERY EARLY to discuss completely but I’m seeing some good things with some 3 stars. One huge issue we’ve had over the years is filling out our classes with guys that never even contribute and transfer to lower classification programs

2022 class (Mario and Manny combined not sure who is completely responsible)

Colby Young: our #1 WR entering the season. Pretty sure this was all Mario. Offers from Albany and Stony Brook. Lists offers from Pitt and FSU but not entirely sure what that means

Matthew McCoy: pretty sure this was all Mario too early to tell but the buzz is great here

Anez Cooper: starting RG. This one was debated but I believe this was all Mario as well

Jaden Harris: heavily in the mix at safety and/or DB. Offered by Manny, the timeline gets tricky that year but I think Mario closed the deal. Not that Manny couldn’t or wouldn’t but not sure

Ahmad Moten: heavy minutes on the DL projected for him. Manny offered and it’s tricky again but he was heavily recruited by some big programs at the end and Mario won out

These were the 5 3 stars from 2022 and that’s really encouraging imo

The 2023 class it’s way too early of course but some nice early buzz for 3 stars like Pulliam, Spencer, Kinsler, Emory etc

The 2021 class, Mannys highest ranked class (#11) had 10 3 star players (not including Borregales) and by my count only 2 are still here. Kam was clearly an amazing story and Jacolby George has struggled but seems primed to have a nice season. The rest of them never made an impact here and that’s been part of the story of the last 20 years

This isn’t a pro-Mario, anti-Manny sunshine thread but it’s something we gotta keep trending in the right direction

 

[TriStarCane]

It’s a good discussion thread to table for later. We are going balls deep into Eval Szn strategy with our misses on the trail. Let’s see how it shakes out. I do not believe we will be the first team to outperform the recruiting rankings and blue chip ratio correlation, but maybe it will raise our floor enough on a W/L basis to close the deal on some of these higher rated kids and gain more capital for our NIL funds

 

[JHallCanes]

It’s a good discussion thread to table for later. We are going balls deep into Eval Szn strategy with our misses on the trail. Let’s see how it shakes out. I do not believe we will be the first team to outperform the recruiting rankings and blue chip ratio correlation, but maybe it will raise our floor enough on a W/L basis to close the deal on some of these higher rated kids and gain more capital for our NIL funds

Totally agree. I feel like those that follow recruiting have been “evald” to death. But we know we will always have to rely on getting some dudes, especially local ones that fly a bit under the radar.

 

[90scane]

Lots of heated debates on the recruiting board when it comes to this. I’m not familiar with his time at Oregon tbh but wanted to mark this thread for future discussion

I’m just trying to present data and then we can analyze this together since I’m not entirely sure how the process went with some guys and of course it’s VERY EARLY to discuss completely but I’m seeing some good things with some 3 stars. One huge issue we’ve had over the years is filling out our classes with guys that never even contribute and transfer to lower classification programs

2022 class (Mario and Manny combined not sure who is completely responsible)

Colby Young: our #1 WR entering the season. Pretty sure this was all Mario. Offers from Albany and Stony Brook. Lists offers from Pitt and FSU but not entirely sure what that means

Matthew McCoy: pretty sure this was all Mario too early to tell but the buzz is great here

Anez Cooper: starting RG. This one was debated but I believe this was all Mario as well

Jaden Harris: heavily in the mix at safety and/or DB. Offered by Manny, the timeline gets tricky that year but I think Mario closed the deal. Not that Manny couldn’t or wouldn’t but not sure

Ahmad Moten: heavy minutes on the DL projected for him. Manny offered and it’s tricky again but he was heavily recruited by some big programs at the end and Mario won out

These were the 5 3 stars from 2022 and that’s really encouraging imo

The 2023 class it’s way too early of course but some nice early buzz for 3 stars like Pulliam, Spencer, Kinsler, Emory etc

The 2021 class, Mannys highest ranked class (#11) had 10 3 star players (not including Borregales) and by my count only 2 are still here. Kam was clearly an amazing story and Jacolby George has struggled but seems primed to have a nice season. The rest of them never made an impact here and that’s been part of the story of the last 20 years

This isn’t a pro-Mario, anti-Manny sunshine thread but it’s something we gotta keep trending in the right direction

Those are only the kids that ended as 3stars. It would be interesting to see the summer rankings between Jr/Sr year for the classes. I'm pretty sure a few kids got bumped to 4 stars.

We also have to look at the misses like Moss who still appears to be 6'6 210lbs, Graves, Rogers...

 

[JHallCanes]

Those are only the kids that ended as 3stars. It would be interesting to see the summer rankings between Jr/Sr year for the classes. I'm pretty sure a few kids got bumped to 4 stars.

We also have to look at the misses like Moss who still appears to be 6'6 210lbs, Graves, Rogers...

Couldn’t agree more on the misses. One of the devastating parts of our past recruiting classes isn’t just the ones at the bottom, it’s actually been the horrendous hit rate at the guys that are mid 4 stars. Looking at the 2021 class is really brutal when you see that.

 

[Canedude08]

The problem with our mopes, and it's a problem that has reared its head for years is that they have little to no actual knowledge about how anything actually works. Worse is that they don't want to learn. Teams that win, teams that compete for titles not only land high end guys, but they also do extremely well in evaluating and developing guys that are in that 3 star bucket. If evaluation and development wasn't so incredibly important, schools like Alabama and Georgia wouldn't be spending the equivalent of a small island nation's GDP on support staff whose entire job is to sort through the 3 star kids and find the ones that will fit and develop in their programs. Can you have all 3 star guys and win? No, but if you look at most high end rosters, they have high end kids, playing right alongside kids that have been developed, kids that fit a specific niche.

Even the best recruiters hit for a relatively low average in regards to landing 5 star kids. It's similar to hitting a baseball, great hitters fail significantly more than they succeed. Nick Saban and Kirby Smart, guys with every conceivable advantage whiff on guys that they go hard for, and sometimes, they lose them because of things beyond their control. Mario is out here competing against the big boys on the trail, he's going to lose far more battles than he wins. The thing that will determine whether his tenure is a success is if his staff can identify, recruit and DEVELOP guys that aren't sure fire dudes, and patch them together with the high end guys they do get. Can they get the high end guys play to their potential? Manny Diaz, Mark Richt, Al Golden, Randy Shannon and Larry Coker all landed high end guys, those dudes RARELY got any better or consistently played to their potential. You usually saw guys flash, but when it became time to consistently perform, most couldn't. A lot of that was culture, a lot of that was the fact that the infrastructure needed to maximize athletic ability wasn't there. Whether it was not having advanced sports medicine, whether it was not having the proper S&C and nutrition staff, or support in place, the infrastructure wasn't there. Mario is addressing those shortcomings, he knows what successful programs do to win, he's been apart of them, and he's also done it HIMSELF as the Head Coach. The question is whether it comes together and if this fickle, cheap fanbase gives him the time to do it, before reverting back to the toxic mess they've always been.

 

[JHallCanes]

The problem with our mopes, and it's a problem that has reared its head for years is that they have little to no actual knowledge about how anything actually works. Worse is that they don't want to learn. Teams that win, teams that compete for titles not only land high end guys, but they also do extremely well in evaluating and developing guys that are in that 3 star bucket. If evaluation and development wasn't so incredibly important, schools like Alabama and Georgia wouldn't be spending the equivalent of a small island nation's GDP on support staff whose entire job is to sort through the 3 star kids and find the ones that will fit and develop in their programs. Can you have all 3 star guys and win? No, but if you look at most high end rosters, they have high end kids, playing right alongside kids that have been developed, kids that fit a specific niche.

Even the best recruiters hit for a relatively low average in regards to landing 5 star kids. It's similar to hitting a baseball, great hitters fail significantly more than they succeed. Nick Saban and Kirby Smart, guys with every conceivable advantage whiff on guys that they go hard for, and sometimes, they lose them because of things beyond their control. Mario is out here competing against the big boys on the trail, he's going to lose far more battles than he wins. The thing that will determine whether his tenure is a success is if his staff can identify, recruit and DEVELOP guys that aren't sure fire dudes, and patch them together with the high end guys they do get. Can they get the high end guys play to their potential? Manny Diaz, Mark Richt, Al Golden, Randy Shannon and Larry Coker all landed high end guys, those dudes RARELY got any better or consistently played to their potential. You usually saw guys flash, but when it became time to consistently perform, most couldn't. A lot of that was culture, a lot of that was the fact that the infrastructure needed to maximize athletic ability wasn't there. Whether it was not having advanced sports medicine, whether it was not having the proper S&C and nutrition staff, or support in place, the infrastructure wasn't there. Mario is addressing those shortcomings, he knows what successful programs do to win, he's been apart of them, and he's also done it HIMSELF as the Head Coach. The question is whether it comes together and if this fickle, cheap, fanbase actually gives him the time to do it, before reverting back to the toxic mess they've always been.

Yeah you don’t struggle for 20 years because of only one thing. We’ve had bad evals, low 5 star percentage, poor development etc

There’s no doubt recruiting rankings matter, but to your point you can’t have the attrition of the classes that we have. We’ve discussed it a few times but take the 2021 class, those guys should be the emerging leaders of the team and providing good depth but here we are a couple of years later still addressing depth because of that class. Golden had a class like that as well that was just horrifying. One of Richts high ranking class was brutal IIRC

 

[Empirical Cane]

Lots of heated debates on the recruiting board when it comes to this. I’m not familiar with his time at Oregon tbh but wanted to mark this thread for future discussion

I’m just trying to present data and then we can analyze this together since I’m not entirely sure how the process went with some guys and of course it’s VERY EARLY to discuss completely but I’m seeing some good things with some 3 stars. One huge issue we’ve had over the years is filling out our classes with guys that never even contribute and transfer to lower classification programs

2022 class (Mario and Manny combined not sure who is completely responsible)

Colby Young: our #1 WR entering the season. Pretty sure this was all Mario. Offers from Albany and Stony Brook. Lists offers from Pitt and FSU but not entirely sure what that means

Matthew McCoy: pretty sure this was all Mario too early to tell but the buzz is great here

Anez Cooper: starting RG. This one was debated but I believe this was all Mario as well

Jaden Harris: heavily in the mix at safety and/or DB. Offered by Manny, the timeline gets tricky that year but I think Mario closed the deal. Not that Manny couldn’t or wouldn’t but not sure

Ahmad Moten: heavy minutes on the DL projected for him. Manny offered and it’s tricky again but he was heavily recruited by some big programs at the end and Mario won out

These were the 5 3 stars from 2022 and that’s really encouraging imo

The 2023 class it’s way too early of course but some nice early buzz for 3 stars like Pulliam, Spencer, Kinsler, Emory etc

The 2021 class, Mannys highest ranked class (#11) had 10 3 star players (not including Borregales) and by my count only 2 are still here. Kam was clearly an amazing story and Jacolby George has struggled but seems primed to have a nice season. The rest of them never made an impact here and that’s been part of the story of the last 20 years

This isn’t a pro-Mario, anti-Manny sunshine thread but it’s something we gotta keep trending in the right direction

While Big Manny's time in Oregon is in informative, he didn't have Highsmith.

I believe this factor has been significantly under reported on.

How involved is Zo in evals of candidates?

 

[JHallCanes]

While Big Manny's time in Oregon is in informative, he didn't have Highsmith.

I believe this factor has been significantly under reported on.

How involved is Zo in evals of candidates?

He had Phil Knight thoooooo

 

[Empirical Cane]

He had Phil Knight thoooooo

Point taken. Texas has had Red McCombs $$$$ and their evals have sucked.

 

[JHallCanes]

Point taken. Texas has had Red McCombs $$$$ and their evals have sucked.

I’m with ya though. One of the biggest things I’ve been encouraged by is our push towards being serious about this stuff. Mario’s time at Bama probably gets overblown and we won’t ever be a Bama type environment, but he’s seen it up close. I’m sure part of his demands for coming here was certain assurances we would give him the resources (like Zo) to help him best

 

[SayWhat]

Meh, we'll see when fall comes around the next few years.

Also, I hope nobody is confusing evals for not landing what you want. The top teams basically want the same guys, but as the process goes on they move on as there's not much interest or you're flat out eliminated. You just keep moving down the list fighting for who you can get at that point.

 

[sedlst11]

Not just about Evals it’s also about developing those evals as well.

 

[GirthQuake]

I’m critical of Mario but I’m positive he stepped in for moten. **** poor recruiting from manny almost made him go Oklahoma

 

[AtlAtty]

The problem with our mopes, and it's a problem that has reared its head for years is that they have little to no actual knowledge about how anything actually works. Worse is that they don't want to learn. Teams that win, teams that compete for titles not only land high end guys, but they also do extremely well in evaluating and developing guys that are in that 3 star bucket. If evaluation and development wasn't so incredibly important, schools like Alabama and Georgia wouldn't be spending the equivalent of a small island nation's GDP on support staff whose entire job is to sort through the 3 star kids and find the ones that will fit and develop in their programs. Can you have all 3 star guys and win? No, but if you look at most high end rosters, they have high end kids, playing right alongside kids that have been developed, kids that fit a specific niche.

Even the best recruiters hit for a relatively low average in regards to landing 5 star kids. It's similar to hitting a baseball, great hitters fail significantly more than they succeed. Nick Saban and Kirby Smart, guys with every conceivable advantage whiff on guys that they go hard for, and sometimes, they lose them because of things beyond their control. Mario is out here competing against the big boys on the trail, he's going to lose far more battles than he wins. The thing that will determine whether his tenure is a success is if his staff can identify, recruit and DEVELOP guys that aren't sure fire dudes, and patch them together with the high end guys they do get. Can they get the high end guys play to their potential? Manny Diaz, Mark Richt, Al Golden, Randy Shannon and Larry Coker all landed high end guys, those dudes RARELY got any better or consistently played to their potential. You usually saw guys flash, but when it became time to consistently perform, most couldn't. A lot of that was culture, a lot of that was the fact that the infrastructure needed to maximize athletic ability wasn't there. Whether it was not having advanced sports medicine, whether it was not having the proper S&C and nutrition staff, or support in place, the infrastructure wasn't there. Mario is addressing those shortcomings, he knows what successful programs do to win, he's been apart of them, and he's also done it HIMSELF as the Head Coach. The question is whether it comes together and if this fickle, cheap fanbase gives him the time to do it, before reverting back to the toxic mess they've always been.

Where do you rank our mopes versus mopes of other schools? While they may only be mopes, they are our mopes, and as such, I believe in them.

 

[Canedude08]

Where do you rank our mopes versus mopes of other schools? While they may only be mopes, they are our mopes, and as such, I believe in them.

Every fanbase has mopes, but our mopes are unique in the fact that they provide NOTHING of value. Even the dumbest Gump in Alabama, actually helps out to some extent. They buy merch, they show up to games, even if the coaching staffs are complete trash, as it had been between Stallings and Saban. On the other hand, our mopes whine even when things are going well, a case study would be our basketball program. We have people actually whining than the most successful coach in school history(and it isn't remotely close) isn't recruiting South Florida the way they want. No, I'm not joking. Dude is making deep runs in the NCAA Tournament, but somehow, it's not good enough.

Our fanbase has attempted to run off **** near every coach that has been here, even the successful ones they'd kill to have back. Our mopes are exhausting and I'm convinced that a significant part of our fanbase actively hates the University and roots for failure. There's no other rational explanation. There's a line between warranted criticism, and never ending negativity, even when the program is making the moves we have been asking for.

 

[MiamiBusiness]

How were Mario’s evaluations at Oregon? Did his 3 stars pan out at a higher than average clip? I have no idea. But that is valuable data re: Mario’s evaluation prowess if anyone is inclined to do the research.

 

[AtlAtty]

Every fanbase has mopes, but our mopes are unique in the fact that they provide NOTHING of value. Even the dumbest Gump in Alabama, actually helps out to some extent. They buy merch, they show up to games, even if the coaching staffs are complete trash, as it had been between Stallings and Saban. On the other hand, our mopes whine even when things are going well, a case study would be our basketball program. We have people actually whining than the most successful coach in school history(and it isn't remotely close) isn't recruiting South Florida they way they want. No, I'm not joking. Dude is making deep runs in the NCAA Tournament, but somehow, it's not good enough.

Our fanbase has attempted to run off **** near every coach that has been here, even the successful ones they'd kill to have back. Our mopes are exhausting and I'm convinced that a significant part of our fanbase actively hates the University and roots for failure. There's no other rational explanation. There's a line between warranted criticism, and just the never ending negativity, even when the program is making the moves we have been asking for.

I agree with you 100%. And after they mope in individual threads, they start general moping threads. It’s not good enough to complain about a recruit who commits elsewhere. We apparently need threads so we can complain about recruiting in general.

And as you noted, they don’t go to games, they don’t contribute money, they don’t buy merchandise. They just like to complain and need something to complain about. And they don’t know thew sports. We have one guy ont he basketball board who referred to next season as a “rebuilding“ year. With a team that should be ranked top 15-20 to start the season (and should be top 10 IMO).

Impossible to please. Generally angry and with no place to express displeasure other than CIS.

 

[firstandcanes]

While Big Manny's time in Oregon is in informative, he didn't have Highsmith.

I believe this factor has been significantly under reported on.

How involved is Zo in evals of candidates?

I'm wondering how much Zo is involved as well. I'm hoping that's why the 24 class has quite a few under the radar guys. Seems like quite a few aren't big names but have good film. I feel like this is where Zo will have the biggest impact.

I'm sure they would love to land a boatload of five stars but is it this years recruiting strategy to load up on guys that may take a year or two to develop? Especially given the fact that last year's class has so many instant impact guys.

 

[Empirical Cane]

I agree with you 100%. And after they mope in individual threads, they start general moping threads. It’s not good enough to complain about a recruit who commits elsewhere. We apparently need threads so we can complain about recruiting in general.

And as you noted, they don’t go to games, they don’t contribute money, they don’t buy merchandise. They just like to complain and need something to complain about. And they don’t know thew sports. We have one guy ont he basketball board who referred to next season as a “rebuilding“ year. With a team that should be ranked top 15-20 to start the season (and should be top 10 IMO).

Impossible to please. Generally angry and with no place to express displeasure other than CIS.

I'd like to start a thread about how CIS sucks at starting enough threads about how bad Miami sucks.

It's time to crank up the Super Hoover.