ESPN uniting Butch Davis, Vilma + post-coach search thoughts

Love Butch, but no way he survives Shalala. If Shalala wasn't here, Shapiro never happens. Shalala destroyed this program and w Butch's personality, I believe he would've been gone regardless.

This is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever read on this website. and that's saying a lot.

Why exactly is that? Any one who truly follows the program knows when butch was here he already had issues with a far more sports friendly administration. So why is it so hard to understand that shalala who didn't focus on our athletics at all (actually saw it as secondary) would've been he'll on butch. She immediately pushed her agenda from the second she got here.

Shapiro never happens without Shalala? So the other presidents were gonna turn down his money?

Kevin....it's widely known that Shalala was warned about Shapiro and she turned a blind eye to it, like the good ol' politician that she is. As long as the checks cashed, she was good w/ him. I, personally, don't think Shapiro would've had the type of influence allotted to him by our past Presidents. Shapiro was dang near running the program. I'm not saying his money wouldn't have been taken, but once warning flags started flying, I think they would've backed off a bit. Just my opinion.
 
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All he had to do was stay at UM and he would've been a legend. He didnt and now he lives with the consequences

I don't feel much sympathy for him

Butch would have left for the NFL within few seasons. He likely would have won the 2001 NC, perhaps 2002, and then bolted for more money than Cleveland paid. I always thought he was waiting for the Houston Texans job.
 
Love Butch, but no way he survives Shalala. If Shalala wasn't here, Shapiro never happens. Shalala destroyed this program and w Butch's personality, I believe he would've been gone regardless.

This is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever read on this website. and that's saying a lot.

Why exactly is that? Any one who truly follows the program knows when butch was here he already had issues with a far more sports friendly administration. So why is it so hard to understand that shalala who didn't focus on our athletics at all (actually saw it as secondary) would've been he'll on butch. She immediately pushed her agenda from the second she got here.

Good lord, you can't be this stupid. Tad Foote couldn't stand the program, but he had outstanding ADs who managed the department well. That doesn't mean he supported the department, he just happened to serve as President during the run. This "Shalala hated athletics" nonsense isn't based in reality, or history. Look at Wisconsin athletics, Barry Alvarez and Pat Richter swear by her. Shalala may have neglected the athletic department(Most competent university president aren't prioritizing the athletic department), but he wasn't actively trying to sink it.

Actually I know I didn't say anything about her hating the program. I said she saw it as secondary which is certainly the case. She completely allowed the program to be neglected & hired incompetent at best staffers. Your petty insults be damned. I watched it with my own eyes on a daily during that time frame. By the way tad Foote didn't hate the program at all either. He hated the way we behaved & the image we portrayed to the university which he saw as harmful towards the vision he marketed. Very different from shalala. Her she just flat out saw athletics as simply part of a students education & thus it didn't deserve any special treatment out of fund raiser dollars or mainting a competent staff & facilities. Furthermore this whole Richter & Alvarez swear by her is completely irrelevant towards the discussion here. They were her hires & matched her image. They were quiet & conservative. They also come from a school with a passionate fanbase that will demand certain compromise. That being stated Wisconsin will still never be known as a school that's all about its athletics
 
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Love Butch, but no way he survives Shalala. If Shalala wasn't here, Shapiro never happens. Shalala destroyed this program and w Butch's personality, I believe he would've been gone regardless.

This is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever read on this website. and that's saying a lot.

Why exactly is that? Any one who truly follows the program knows when butch was here he already had issues with a far more sports friendly administration. So why is it so hard to understand that shalala who didn't focus on our athletics at all (actually saw it as secondary) would've been he'll on butch. She immediately pushed her agenda from the second she got here.

Good lord, you can't be this stupid. Tad Foote couldn't stand the program, but he had outstanding ADs who managed the department well. That doesn't mean he supported the department, he just happened to serve as President during the run. This "Shalala hated athletics" nonsense isn't based in reality, or history. Look at Wisconsin athletics, Barry Alvarez and Pat Richter swear by her. Shalala may have neglected the athletic department(Most competent university president aren't prioritizing the athletic department), but he wasn't actively trying to sink it.

Actually I know I didn't say anything about her hating the program. I said she saw it as secondary which is certainly the case. She completely allowed the program to be neglected & hired incompetent at best staffers. Your petty insults be damned. I watched it with my own eyes on a daily during that time frame. By the way tad Foote didn't hate the program at all either. He hated the way we behaved & the image we portrayed to the university which he saw as harmful towards the vision he marketed. Very different from shalala. Her she just flat out saw athletics as simply part of a students education & thus it didn't deserve any special treatment out of fund raiser dollars or mainting a competent staff & facilities. Furthermore this whole Richter & Alvarez swear by her is completely irrelevant towards the discussion here. They were her hires & matched her image. They were quiet & conservative. They also come from a school with a passionate fanbase that will demand certain compromise. That being stated Wisconsin will still never be known as a school that's all about its athletics

NO WELL MANAGED SCHOOL IS ALL ABOUT ATHLETICS. Miami is becoming a top tier school, and it has to be managed as such. Top tier schools appreciate and support their athletic programs, but it isn't the end all be all. You know the kind of schools that are "All In" in regards to athletics? Marginal ones who are doing their regular students a disservice by ignoring their needs in favor of the student-athletes. If you want to be mad about the rot that was the last decade, look at the Board of Trustees and the Golden Canes. They were the ones with the real power to create change, and they didn't step up and do it. Remember, Dr. Shalala wasn't a dictator, she served at the pleasure of the Board of Trustees and the donors. The athletically inclined people on the board and the major boosters sat by and didn't hold certain people accountable. That's on them, they didn't put Dee out to pasture sooner, and they didn't take note of the arms race in college sports. They just sat by and reasoned that if it worked 30 years ago, it should work now. That isn't the case.

There's a power dynamic that a lot of people ignore because it's easy to point to the one person they recognize, instead of the thirty they don't. We see this in politics, it's a lot easier to point to Barack Obama or Dubya as the cause of your problems, than the 500+ people in Congress. The only thing she should be held to the fire about is the Randy Shannon hire. She stood on the table for that guy, when it should have been obvious that Miami needed an established guy after Coker ran the program into the ground. She, along with Paul Dee should have stood up to the "We need a Miami guy" crowd. That was something that I was highly disappointed with.

While Shapiro was a crappy person, there's plenty of Golden Canes that are unlikable, who occasionally break rules. The difference with Shapiro was that he was a con artist, doing something the FBI and SEC couldn't figure out. How do you expect Dr. Shalala to know something that those organizations didn't? He was given the all-clear by compliance, his money checked out, and that was that. If Miami only took donations from likable people, the donor pool would be cut significantly. That wasn't a Shalala problem, that was a "It's a lot easier to buy your way into the inner circle at Miami due to the small size of the donor pool" problem. He couldn't pull that crap at Alabama, it takes decades of large gifts to get into the inner circle. He would have been exposed way before he got there.

Shalala didn't fundraise for the athletic department, because that isn't her job. Her job is to stimulate fundraising for the academic departments, they need the additional muscle, athletics doesn't. That's on the AD, that's on the people in the department. They did a poor job of leveraging Miami's success in the early 2000s. When Dr. Shalala was asked by the AD, she did what was asked. When you go back and look at the last decade, Miami failed to attract elite leadership at the AD position, and that's where a lot of the blame should be laid. Hocutt and Eichorst were average at best, and Blake James is a work in progress. Compare that to Sam Jankovich, who was a big time AD, who seemed to have connections everywhere.
 
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Love Butch, but no way he survives Shalala. If Shalala wasn't here, Shapiro never happens. Shalala destroyed this program and w Butch's personality, I believe he would've been gone regardless.

This is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever read on this website. and that's saying a lot.

TF?? Did you even read my post?? I said IF SHALALA WASN'T HERE, SHAPIRO WOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED. Can you read, or comprehend?? The point was Butch wouldn't have even made it to the Shapiro fiasco b/c he would've been gone due to Shalala, anyways. You do recall part of the reason y he left don't you?

Uh yeah I actually read it, that's why I said what I said. If you think that if Foote or Frenk were President of the U that Shapiro wouldn't have happened, you are pretty f'ing retarded.
 
Love Butch, but no way he survives Shalala. If Shalala wasn't here, Shapiro never happens. Shalala destroyed this program and w Butch's personality, I believe he would've been gone regardless.

This is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever read on this website. and that's saying a lot.

Not even close. Actually not insane at all. The only thing left out is that Shalala destroyed it on purpose. Rellyell was being nice.

The UM fanbase destroyed the program by flying banners to fire Butch who had assembled the greatest team in college football history. He felt uncomfortable and wouldn't sign a deal he felt was unfair given the volatility of our fans, so he went to the NFL. Blame her all you want, but our fans drove Butch out.
 
Love Butch, but no way he survives Shalala. If Shalala wasn't here, Shapiro never happens. Shalala destroyed this program and w Butch's personality, I believe he would've been gone regardless.

This is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever read on this website. and that's saying a lot.

Why exactly is that? Any one who truly follows the program knows when butch was here he already had issues with a far more sports friendly administration. So why is it so hard to understand that shalala who didn't focus on our athletics at all (actually saw it as secondary) would've been he'll on butch. She immediately pushed her agenda from the second she got here.

Good lord, you can't be this stupid. Tad Foote couldn't stand the program, but he had outstanding ADs who managed the department well. That doesn't mean he supported the department, he just happened to serve as President during the run. This "Shalala hated athletics" nonsense isn't based in reality, or history. Look at Wisconsin athletics, Barry Alvarez and Pat Richter swear by her. Shalala may have neglected the athletic department(Most competent university president aren't prioritizing the athletic department), but he wasn't actively trying to sink it.

LOL!!! You have to be kidding right??? Strong 35th post. You can't be that stupid! See Hurricanes before Shalala, see Hurricanes during Shalala and see Hurricanes after Shalala. FOH!

That's the simple way of viewing it. Richt fell into our lap like a gift from God. We were on the way to hiring Greg Schiano. Just like Larranaga, Richt was a gift, not a sign of competence by our athletic department or administration.
 
Love Butch, but no way he survives Shalala. If Shalala wasn't here, Shapiro never happens. Shalala destroyed this program and w Butch's personality, I believe he would've been gone regardless.

This is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever read on this website. and that's saying a lot.

Why exactly is that? Any one who truly follows the program knows when butch was here he already had issues with a far more sports friendly administration. So why is it so hard to understand that shalala who didn't focus on our athletics at all (actually saw it as secondary) would've been he'll on butch. She immediately pushed her agenda from the second she got here.

Shapiro never happens without Shalala? So the other presidents were gonna turn down his money?

Kevin....it's widely known that Shalala was warned about Shapiro and she turned a blind eye to it, like the good ol' politician that she is. As long as the checks cashed, she was good w/ him. I, personally, don't think Shapiro would've had the type of influence allotted to him by our past Presidents. Shapiro was dang near running the program. I'm not saying his money wouldn't have been taken, but once warning flags started flying, I think they would've backed off a bit. Just my opinion.

When you start out saying something is "widely known", it's not widely known, and likely untrue.
 
Love Butch, but no way he survives Shalala. If Shalala wasn't here, Shapiro never happens. Shalala destroyed this program and w Butch's personality, I believe he would've been gone regardless.

This is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever read on this website. and that's saying a lot.

Not even close. Actually not insane at all. The only thing left out is that Shalala destroyed it on purpose. Rellyell was being nice.

The UM fanbase destroyed the program by flying banners to fire Butch who had assembled the greatest team in college football history. He felt uncomfortable and wouldn't sign a deal he felt was unfair given the volatility of our fans, so he went to the NFL. Blame her all you want, but our fans drove Butch out.

Bull. We merely motivated him. And it worked. Going back the Howard, our teams and coaches won DESPITE the administrations. Real real Howard left was the administration worked him over on the on campus stadium he wanted. Told him he would have to raise the donations. He started and had 5 million quickly, then smucks changes the rules. Told him ALL the money had to come from donors who had NEVER donated to the school before. How do I know? Because I was one of the donors and worked on the fundraising. Any time you defend the administration you are wrong, trust me.
 
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Love Butch, but no way he survives Shalala. If Shalala wasn't here, Shapiro never happens. Shalala destroyed this program and w Butch's personality, I believe he would've been gone regardless.

This is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever read on this website. and that's saying a lot.

Not even close. Actually not insane at all. The only thing left out is that Shalala destroyed it on purpose. Rellyell was being nice.

The UM fanbase destroyed the program by flying banners to fire Butch who had assembled the greatest team in college football history. He felt uncomfortable and wouldn't sign a deal he felt was unfair given the volatility of our fans, so he went to the NFL. Blame her all you want, but our fans drove Butch out.

Bull. We merely motivated him. And it worked. Going back the Howard, our teams and coaches won DESPITE the administrations. Real real Howard left was the administration worked him over on the on campus stadium he wanted. Told him he would have to raise the donations. He started and had 5 million quickly, then smucks changes the rules. Told him ALL the money had to come from donors who had NEVER donated to the school before. How do I know? Because I was one of the donors and worked on the fundraising. Any time you defend the administration you are wrong, trust me.

I'm not defending anyone or anything. I'm placing the blame where it rightfully belongs. According to Butch himself.

"I talked it over with my wife. You live a little bit in fear. I thought, 'Well, today they love me, but in 1997 they were flying a plane over the stadium, 'Get Rid of Butch Davis!' It didn't take long to keep reminding yourself that this 80-20 stuff wasn't fair."

Despite being cleared in scandal at UNC, Davis still waiting for a gig - CBSSports.com
 
I believe he needs to get over not getting the gig. He might have done well. But he also might have turned out similar to John Robinson Part 2 at USC.
 
Love Butch, but no way he survives Shalala. If Shalala wasn't here, Shapiro never happens. Shalala destroyed this program and w Butch's personality, I believe he would've been gone regardless.

This is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever read on this website. and that's saying a lot.

Not even close. Actually not insane at all. The only thing left out is that Shalala destroyed it on purpose. Rellyell was being nice.

The UM fanbase destroyed the program by flying banners to fire Butch who had assembled the greatest team in college football history. He felt uncomfortable and wouldn't sign a deal he felt was unfair given the volatility of our fans, so he went to the NFL. Blame her all you want, but our fans drove Butch out.

Very true, Butch never truly forgave for that 1997 nonsense. That's why I laughed whenever fans looked at him as some kind of Pro-Miami guy, he isn't. He loves the school, but he has a lot of animosity towards the fanbase. It's also ironic that when people were flying banners last year that they were doing so while pushing for a coach they had tried to run out of town almost 20 years ago. Butch, if he had options wouldn't even take Miami's phone calls. He doesn't have options at this point, so he played to the fans' foggy recollection of the late nineties in the hope that he could leverage that into a final shot at the big time.
 
Love Butch, but no way he survives Shalala. If Shalala wasn't here, Shapiro never happens. Shalala destroyed this program and w Butch's personality, I believe he would've been gone regardless.

This is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever read on this website. and that's saying a lot.

Not even close. Actually not insane at all. The only thing left out is that Shalala destroyed it on purpose. Rellyell was being nice.

The UM fanbase destroyed the program by flying banners to fire Butch who had assembled the greatest team in college football history. He felt uncomfortable and wouldn't sign a deal he felt was unfair given the volatility of our fans, so he went to the NFL. Blame her all you want, but our fans drove Butch out.

Bull. We merely motivated him. And it worked. Going back the Howard, our teams and coaches won DESPITE the administrations. Real real Howard left was the administration worked him over on the on campus stadium he wanted. Told him he would have to raise the donations. He started and had 5 million quickly, then smucks changes the rules. Told him ALL the money had to come from donors who had NEVER donated to the school before. How do I know? Because I was one of the donors and worked on the fundraising. Any time you defend the administration you are wrong, trust me.

Anyone who reflexively blames a group of people based upon a couple of select examples is a fool. So, in other words, even when it's obvious to anyone with two working eyes that the administration did something right, they're wrong, just because of that Howard situation. That's brilliant.
 
Love Butch, but no way he survives Shalala. If Shalala wasn't here, Shapiro never happens. Shalala destroyed this program and w Butch's personality, I believe he would've been gone regardless.

This is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever read on this website. and that's saying a lot.

Not even close. Actually not insane at all. The only thing left out is that Shalala destroyed it on purpose. Rellyell was being nice.

The UM fanbase destroyed the program by flying banners to fire Butch who had assembled the greatest team in college football history. He felt uncomfortable and wouldn't sign a deal he felt was unfair given the volatility of our fans, so he went to the NFL. Blame her all you want, but our fans drove Butch out.

Very true, Butch never truly forgave for that 1997 nonsense. That's why I laughed whenever fans looked at him as some kind of Pro-Miami guy, he isn't. He loves the school, but he has a lot of animosity towards the fanbase. It's also ironic that when people were flying banners last year that they were doing so while pushing for a coach they had tried to run out of town almost 20 years ago. Butch, if he had options wouldn't even take Miami's phone calls. He doesn't have options at this point, so he played to the fans' foggy recollection of the late nineties in the hope that he could leverage that into a final shot at the big time.

What's more is that our fanbase is clueless to this. I suppose flying banners to fire Al Golden were also to motivate him. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.
 
This is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever read on this website. and that's saying a lot.

Not even close. Actually not insane at all. The only thing left out is that Shalala destroyed it on purpose. Rellyell was being nice.

The UM fanbase destroyed the program by flying banners to fire Butch who had assembled the greatest team in college football history. He felt uncomfortable and wouldn't sign a deal he felt was unfair given the volatility of our fans, so he went to the NFL. Blame her all you want, but our fans drove Butch out.

Bull. We merely motivated him. And it worked. Going back the Howard, our teams and coaches won DESPITE the administrations. Real real Howard left was the administration worked him over on the on campus stadium he wanted. Told him he would have to raise the donations. He started and had 5 million quickly, then smucks changes the rules. Told him ALL the money had to come from donors who had NEVER donated to the school before. How do I know? Because I was one of the donors and worked on the fundraising. Any time you defend the administration you are wrong, trust me.

Anyone who reflexively blames a group of people based upon a couple of select examples is a fool. So, in other words, even when it's obvious to anyone with two working eyes that the administration did something right, they're wrong, just because of that Howard situation. That's brilliant.

Leopards do not change their spots.
 
This is the most insanely idiotic thing I've ever read on this website. and that's saying a lot.

Not even close. Actually not insane at all. The only thing left out is that Shalala destroyed it on purpose. Rellyell was being nice.

The UM fanbase destroyed the program by flying banners to fire Butch who had assembled the greatest team in college football history. He felt uncomfortable and wouldn't sign a deal he felt was unfair given the volatility of our fans, so he went to the NFL. Blame her all you want, but our fans drove Butch out.

Bull. We merely motivated him. And it worked. Going back the Howard, our teams and coaches won DESPITE the administrations. Real real Howard left was the administration worked him over on the on campus stadium he wanted. Told him he would have to raise the donations. He started and had 5 million quickly, then smucks changes the rules. Told him ALL the money had to come from donors who had NEVER donated to the school before. How do I know? Because I was one of the donors and worked on the fundraising. Any time you defend the administration you are wrong, trust me.

I'm not defending anyone or anything. I'm placing the blame where it rightfully belongs. According to Butch himself.

"I talked it over with my wife. You live a little bit in fear. I thought, 'Well, today they love me, but in 1997 they were flying a plane over the stadium, 'Get Rid of Butch Davis!' It didn't take long to keep reminding yourself that this 80-20 stuff wasn't fair."

Despite being cleared in scandal at UNC, Davis still waiting for a gig - CBSSports.com

You of left out some stuff. Sounds like Butch really, really hated it here. I kind of get the feeling he thought it was the biggest mistake of his life. I never blame coaches for leaving to NFL, it is what you do. I have been fan for over 50 years, an alum and one time big donor. This administration here has ALWAYS sucked. The players and coaches made this program despite it. MAYBE this President will be different. We'll see. Mark just fell into their laps and Butch still might have been the better choice. People forget that the great Sam J wasn't looking to hire JJ. JJ, like Coach L, asked for the job -- in an elevator I think. The only deliberate good hire they ever made was Howard. And that was desperation effort to not shut the program down.

"Very much so. I would've loved to have stayed for 30 years at Miami," he said. "We couldn't get it worked out from a contractual standpoint and it had nothing to do with money, but that's a whole different story. They win it the next year. They played for it the year after that. Everything was going spectacularly after that. How many would we have won? I wish I had stayed another 10 years to find out how many."

".....We made one more stab and called [Miami AD] Paul Dee and he went to the trustees and asked them to make it fair. Finally, we made the change. I wished I hadn't have, but we did."
 
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Not even close. Actually not insane at all. The only thing left out is that Shalala destroyed it on purpose. Rellyell was being nice.

The UM fanbase destroyed the program by flying banners to fire Butch who had assembled the greatest team in college football history. He felt uncomfortable and wouldn't sign a deal he felt was unfair given the volatility of our fans, so he went to the NFL. Blame her all you want, but our fans drove Butch out.

Bull. We merely motivated him. And it worked. Going back the Howard, our teams and coaches won DESPITE the administrations. Real real Howard left was the administration worked him over on the on campus stadium he wanted. Told him he would have to raise the donations. He started and had 5 million quickly, then smucks changes the rules. Told him ALL the money had to come from donors who had NEVER donated to the school before. How do I know? Because I was one of the donors and worked on the fundraising. Any time you defend the administration you are wrong, trust me.

I'm not defending anyone or anything. I'm placing the blame where it rightfully belongs. According to Butch himself.

"I talked it over with my wife. You live a little bit in fear. I thought, 'Well, today they love me, but in 1997 they were flying a plane over the stadium, 'Get Rid of Butch Davis!' It didn't take long to keep reminding yourself that this 80-20 stuff wasn't fair."

Despite being cleared in scandal at UNC, Davis still waiting for a gig - CBSSports.com

You of left out some stuff. Sounds like Butch really, really hated it here. I kind of get the feeling he thought it was the biggest mistake of his life. I never blame coaches for leaving to NFL, it is what you do. I have been fan for over 50 years, an alum and one time big donor. This administration here has ALWAYS sucked. The players and coaches made this program despite it. MAYBE this President will be different. We'll see. Mark just fell into their laps and Butch still might have been the better choice. People forget that the great Sam J wasn't looking to hire JJ. JJ, like Coach L, asked for the job -- in an elevator I think. The only deliberate good hire they ever made was Howard. And that was desperation effort to not shut the program down.

"Very much so. I would've loved to have stayed for 30 years at Miami," he said. "We couldn't get it worked out from a contractual standpoint and it had nothing to do with money, but that's a whole different story. They win it the next year. They played for it the year after that. Everything was going spectacularly after that. How many would we have won? I wish I had stayed another 10 years to find out how many."

".....We made one more stab and called [Miami AD] Paul Dee and he went to the trustees and asked them to make it fair. Finally, we made the change. I wished I hadn't have, but we did."

Well yeah, including the entire article would be irrelevant, that's why I provided the link for you to read on your own. If I were trying to be disingenuous I wouldn't have pasted the article for you.

Not sure why you're implying that I think Butch hated it here. I said the fans drove him out, not that he hated it here. It's quite obvious he wanted to stay given that article and how he's gone on several radio shows practically begging for the job back. That just goes to show how uncomfortable he felt with his job status because of the fans, because he loved it here so much but left anyway. I know if people flew banners over my place of work asking for me to be fired, I wouldn't be too pleased with them either. When you point your finger at someone, you have three fingers pointing right back at yourself.
 
The difference with Shapiro was that he was a con artist, doing something the FBI and SEC couldn't figure out. How do you expect Dr. Shalala to know something that those organizations didn't?

LOL. Shapiro scammed Shalala's good friend, Barry Alvarez, out of a substantial sum of money, no way in **** She didn't know He was a scam artist. FOHWTS you talkin'.
 
I'm against fire a coach banners in general, but I'm sure the 97 banner had nothing to do with why he left.

And while this may not be a popular opinion on here I thought even the fire Al Golden banners were stupid and childish. Golden was going to find some way to fire himself in 2015.
 
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