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Enos says no to change

HighSeas said:
You actually have more opportunities to scheme around bad OL with under center. You have way more options in the run game. You can use 3-step quick game throws and screens where the QB doesn't have to take his eyes off the defense. Shotgun is not a panacea.
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I never said it was. But seeing him try it a few times would be nice becauae it would show he sees there's an issue and he's trying to address it.
 
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JD08 said:
CMU
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Oh my bad I thought we had like 4 sacks, a couple strip fumbles and an insane amount of pressure. But their OL was great because dude waa in the gun rights?

Is it not possible that teams have a bad game? Or will you keep being overly emotional about 1 game?

If we’re 10 games into the season and we’re at this point. Please harp away, I’ll join you, but seriously can you get a grip
 
Air Coryell and Dan Fouts could be here, but if your line can't protect it does not matter.
 
Fawk_U Haters said:
Oh my bad I thought we had like 4 sacks, a couple strip fumbles and an insane amount of pressure. But their OL was great because dude waa in the gun rights?

Is it not possible that teams have a bad game? Or will you keep being overly emotional about 1 game?

If we’re 10 games into the season and we’re at this point. Please harp away, I’ll join you, but seriously can you get a grip
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When did I not have a grip? If you think you're arguing with someone bashing Enos or calling the shotgun the only way out, you're mistaken. All I'm saying is for Enos to show something, anything that shows he sees there's a problem and find a workaround. The most likely candidate, in my opinion, is to have enough plays from the shotgun mixed in to cause confusion.

Wanna beat Miami? Put 8 men in the box and send in the occasional blitz because their line is their weakness and they are always under center.

Now if you want to continue arguing because you think I'm some pessimistic Enos hater, you go right ahead, you've already built the strawman, so you don't need me.
 
HighSeas said:
Under center snaps do not make it easier to sack the QB. Slow developing play action with poor protection schemes where your QB has his back to the defense for a second - that exposes the OL & QB to pressure.

Shotgun limits your options in the run game, provides a clear launch point for rushers to attack and forces the QB to drop his eyes to receive the snap, among other issues and limitations.

Again, there is no sound theory behind this CIS shotgun obsession. It's just ignorant fans wanting to copy offenses that they don't even understand, and reaching for a target to direct their vented frustrations.
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@HighSeas
I want shotgun because that is where Jarren is more comfortable.

I wouldn’t mind the under center plays in itself but I can’t recall a single play we ran a 3 step drop from under center. **** I’m having a hard time thinking of a non playaction five step drop.

Your comment about the playaction is spot on. But it seems like the only passes we throw under center are the playaction. This is why people are clamoring for the gun. We have seen working plays from it so at least we know it is practiced. I’m not even sure we practice short drop plays from under center based on the calls in the game.

I think our lack of a zone run from the gun is hurting the run game, especially with us having three athletic qbs.

We run a lot of power, stretch (?) and delay that get blown up by ends. Seems like it takes an unnecessarily long time to get the back going and their alignment seems very deep.

Do you think it would be doable to bring the back a yard or so closer and run more dive and off tackle plays? It seems that there is space to get yardage running inside of the defensive ends (with the tackle or tight end kicking out/ pushing the defender upfield) if we hit the hole with conviction.

I see a lot runs where contact is made but it takes so long for the play to develop, defenders are shedding blocks. Have seen this with lbs at the second level where if the back was coming through faster, he could cut off his blocker’s butt for a nice gain.

If I’m wrong, I would like to know the opinion of a poster whose knowledge I respect.
 
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TruCane81 said:
@HighSeas

I think our lack of a zone run from the gun is hurting the run game, especially with us having three athletic qbs.

We run a lot of power, stretch (?) and delay that get blown up by ends. Seems like it takes an unnecessarily long time to get the back going and their alignment seems very deep.

Do you think it would be doable to bring the back a yard or so closer and run more dive and off tackle plays? It seems that there is space to get yardage running inside of the defensive ends (with the tackle or tight end kicking out/ pushing the defender upfield) if we hit the hole with conviction.

I see a lot runs where contact is made but it takes so long for the play to develop, defenders are shedding blocks. Have seen this with lbs at the second level where if the back was coming through faster, he could cut off his blocker’s butt for a nice gain.

If I’m wrong, I would like to know the opinion of a poster whose knowledge I respect.
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There are two definite problems with running from shotgun. One is that when the back is offset to a side it's a strong indicator that the run is going to the opposite side, especially if the TE(s) is lined up opposite the back. The second and bigger problem imo is you force the backs to move laterally before they can get downhill. This was a big problem under Richt because Homer was pretty stiff and fit best as a downhill 1-cut runner (BTW shoutout to Homer for his good special teams work last night). When you get backs moving laterally that exposes them to penetration and unless you have backs with dynamic lateral quickness who read their blocks well those plays fail.

I suppose the solution to that would be to run Pistol formation or run a lot of Duo and inside zone dive plays. But we don't have the dominating interior line that can drive block and get more than a few yards on those type of plays.

The teams that run the ball successfully from shotgun fall into 2 categories:

1. Pro-style power run concepts from spread looks, with dominant OL consistently every year. Texas, OU, OSU are good examples.
2. Teams that use a lot of window dressing, misdirection, jet motion, RPOs and the like with the spread option game. Clemson, Auburn, App State are good examples from recent years, but teams that do this usually have dual-threat QBs.

Developing a shotgun run game like that is a long-term project. You have to recruit the players, design the scheme, install it and teach the fundamentals. It's not an adjustment we can make mid-season by just pressing a button, and fans don't understand that. If we shifted to more shotgun it would be a vanilla, predictable run game that would be very easy to defend. We would have a much harder time scheming up numbers advantages and the backs (especially Harris) would be forced to do things that aren't their strength.

There are myriad issues with our run game but most of them are related to execution or what the defense is doing. UF & CMU loaded up the box against us and UF plays with essentially a 5-man line that can collapse every gap with relative ease. The Bucs run a similar scheme and have the #1 run D in the NFL. We still ran the ball pretty well on UF. The biggest problems with our run game are penalties, OL execution - missed cut-offs, missed reach blocks, penalties (again), atrocious base blocks by TEs, and RB execution - missed reads, tentative runs, impatient runs, etc.

I think the end arounds could be designed better, and Osborn is a poor choice to run them, but that's nitpicking. Those plays have generally been successful but could yield even more.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
I had no idea Shogun Rua was on the team. We should bring him out first play of the game to take out opposing teams QBs.
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Just caught that, someone's about to get stomped out chuteboxe style


shogun3.gif
 
HighSeas said:
There are two definite problems with running from shotgun. One is that when the back is offset to a side it's a strong indicator that the run is going to the opposite side, especially if the TE(s) is lined up opposite the back. The second and bigger problem imo is you force the backs to move laterally before they can get downhill. This was a big problem under Richt because Homer was pretty stiff and fit best as a downhill 1-cut runner (BTW shoutout to Homer for his good special teams work last night). When you get backs moving laterally that exposes them to penetration and unless you have backs with dynamic lateral quickness who read their blocks well those plays fail.

I suppose the solution to that would be to run Pistol formation or run a lot of Duo and inside zone dive plays. But we don't have the dominating interior line that can drive block and get more than a few yards on those type of plays.

The teams that run the ball successfully from shotgun fall into 2 categories:

1. Pro-style power run concepts from spread looks, with dominant OL consistently every year. Texas, OU, OSU are good examples.
2. Teams that use a lot of window dressing, misdirection, jet motion, RPOs and the like with the spread option game. Clemson, Auburn, App State are good examples from recent years, but teams that do this usually have dual-threat QBs.

Developing a shotgun run game like that is a long-term project. You have to recruit the players, design the scheme, install it and teach the fundamentals. It's not an adjustment we can make mid-season by just pressing a button, and fans don't understand that. If we shifted to more shotgun it would be a vanilla, predictable run game that would be very easy to defend. We would have a much harder time scheming up numbers advantages and the backs (especially Harris) would be forced to do things that aren't their strength.

There are myriad issues with our run game but most of them are related to execution or what the defense is doing. UF & CMU loaded up the box against us and UF plays with essentially a 5-man line that can collapse every gap with relative ease. The Bucs run a similar scheme and have the #1 run D in the NFL. We still ran the ball pretty well on UF. The biggest problems with our run game are penalties, OL execution - missed cut-offs, missed reach blocks, penalties (again), atrocious base blocks by TEs, and RB execution - missed reads, tentative runs, impatient runs, etc.

I think the end arounds could be designed better, and Osborn is a poor choice to run them, but that's nitpicking. Those plays have generally been successful but could yield even more.
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Great stuff.

Appreciate the info.

Your comment about the duo and inside zone caught my attention. We get in a lot of long yardage 2nd downs because of the execution issues that lead to one and two yard losses when we run on first down.

This is why I advocate using short, quick passes on first down to get more 2nd and 5 or 6 opportunities. Then if you run more of the dive plays in those situations, you get less negative runs and a 1-3 yard gain puts you in a very manageable 3rd down situation where both the run and pass are viable options.

The second and medium is where I want to see more of a commitment to the run. Few things have driven me crazy this year as taking sacks on these downs and ending up in unmanageable 3rd down distances.

I want us to pass to open up the run and actually run hard at the defense when we have the down and distance where no gain doesn’t take us off schedule.
 
You would think that 10 sacks in week 0 would have opened his eyes.

Can't ask Jarren to sit in the pocket when there is no pocket in which to sit.

DeeJay wildcat
Martell package
RB, WR, TE screens
fewer 12 and 22 sets
 
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Enos. Gonna be the captain who stubbornly goes down with his ship if he isn’t careful
 
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