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Off-Topic Does God actually exist?

hotshot said:
If our current media/tech capabilities existed at the time Jesus roamed Palestine, he woulda been investigated six ways from Sunday and faced quick exposure. Can you envision his reappearance today (pressers, the deep dive expose on 60 Minutes, and the like).

Very convenient for him, and believers, that he lived in the unenlightened times that he did. I do have to give him and his disciples credit though. The myth/legend has lasted several thousand years. That is no mean feat as his "story" in 2022 would probably have a media shelf life counted in hours, over a day or two.
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Imagine if His Second Coming is in the form of a Nicaraguan kid fleeing violence in His homeland and He get to the US border. What happens? Do we pass the test? It could make for a pretty good movie anyway.
 
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I am a horrible example of a Christian, but I believe in heaven, ****, and Jesus.

If anyone ever needs prayer, DM me; I will be happy to do so.

The devil is out there trying to devour and destroy. You see it in Hollywood, the music we hear, and the media.

EXAMPLES:

Billie Eilish - "My lucifer is lonely."
Bubba Sparxxx - "I indeed sold my soul, without glancing at the price."
DMX - "I sold my soul to the devil, and the price was cheap." A lot of articles on DMX repenting afterward
Jay-Z - "Jesus can't save you; life starts when the church ends."
XXXTENTACION - " I spoke to the devil in Miami; he said everything would be fine." and he mentioned Anima Vestre in his song, which translates to your soul.

Juice WRLD - Said he felt like John Lennon, a man who said he was the second coming of Jesus, and said the Beatles were more popular than Jesus. Juice WRLD ended up dying the same day John Lennon did DEC. 8TH.

The song - U.S.A. for Africa - " As God has shown us by turning stone to bread." This is false, Jesus was asked by the devil to do this, but he did not. If he did, we would have lost our salvation.

Actors and actresses doing rituals - https://www.billboard.com/music/mus...megan-fox-drink-each-others-blood-1235063769/

Lil Nas X

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Feminization of men

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The list goes on....
 
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Salt said:
I beg to differ. Christianity actually elevated the Judaic ethical system from actions to thoughts. Even if you are thinking about adultery it is no better than acting on it. You also had harder sayings such as "bless those who persecute you", and "love your enemies". I would like to see other ethical systems that teach similar ideas. Christianity actually raised the bar which was intent to show more how far we are from holiness and in need of redemption from God.

You may need to be more specific with animals since humans do the observations and recording of these behaviors, there is the possibility of anthropomorphizing that happens. I do know the zebra will not do a hunger strike to protest the treatment of the elephant at the zoo and animals are known to eat their young. I would proceed with caution comparing humans to animals in regards to ethical behavior. There is a saying that "nature is red in tooth and claw". There is some validity to that.


Maybe I did not articulate my point clearly enough. I am not saying that religion is necessary for the idea of equal rights and such. But you at very least need a theistic framework. Under atheism, individual rights are just a mental construct with no actual objective source outside of it. Might makes right and that is all there is to it. Benevolence and aggression are just personal preferences, not objective moral attributes. With no objective moral standards we also can't measure moral progress. Chattel slavery was bad back in the day and still is. We can make the argument that the situation has improved, not merely changed. Without objective moral standards, at best we can say morals change but whether it is for the good or bad is just conditional to the time and place.



I don't dispute that but I can at least say in my Christian framework killing innocent people is wrong (that has been my anti-abortion stance). We agree that religion has and continues to do bad things. But it is my religion that informs me about this. So if Jesus on the Sermon On The Mount teaches that we should "turn the other cheek", "love your enemies", and "bless those who persecute you", I have a basis to make judgements concerning other Christians who may miss the mark. I don't blame Science for the errors of the scientist. Maybe he is just not following the science correctly.

In regards to core morals not coming from religion, maybe so. But they do come from somewhere. I doubt they reside in nature though. Watching Animal Planet would not be my go to source for moral instruction.



Religious beliefs are as old as mankind. Neanderthals buried their dead with personal belongings and there is even earlier evidence from primal man that they may have had a rudimentary idea of some after life.

I agree with the rest. Religious beliefs do go way further back than our more formal systems we have now. Religions to me are just more formal and systematic responses to core beliefs we have always had since the beginning. The question is really where does it come from? Nature or God of Nature?

From a rational standpoint it stands to reason that nature can't give us a higher ethic than just survival of the fittest. Something about that just seems wrong and unfair from a human standpoint. Our welfare systems try to address this. But from an animal standpoint, that is just life. No welfare system in the Serengeti.
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Brother, I appreciate the response, I really do. I read it and I see undeniable truths in there but we're gonna be in disagreement on where things started, and how they grew into where we are now. I do see where you're coming from, but we're on different wavelengths and I know mine isn't necessarily in line with norms. I weight things differently than you do. You're probably not going to convince me that the 'good' from religion wouldn't have emerged anyway. I think it would have been the natural course of a rational thinking human. I appreciate you not being an *** about it. I stay out of these conversations because they devolve so drastically. I may not have the mind reps for this right now but it would be a good in person conversation over some beers.
 
MovingZen said:
Brother, I appreciate the response, I really do. I read it and I see undeniable truths in there but we're gonna be in disagreement on where things started, and how they grew into where we are now. I do see where you're coming from, but we're on different wavelengths and I know mine isn't necessarily in line with norms. I weight things differently than you do. You're probably not going to convince me that the 'good' from religion wouldn't have emerged anyway. I think it would have been the natural course of a rational thinking human. I appreciate you not being an *** about it. I stay out of these conversations because they devolve so drastically. I may not have the mind reps for this right now but it would be a good in person conversation over some beers.
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I see there may be some hope for you! :)
 
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hotshot said:
If our current media/tech capabilities existed at the time Jesus roamed Palestine, he woulda been investigated six ways from Sunday and faced quick exposure. Can you envision his reappearance today (pressers, the deep dive expose on 60 Minutes, and the like).

Very convenient for him, and believers, that he lived in the unenlightened times that he did. I do have to give him and his disciples credit though. The myth/legend has lasted several thousand years. That is no mean feat as his "story" in 2022 would probably have a media shelf life counted in hours, over a day or two.
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If you are suggesting why did Jesus come at that time he did rather than wait for the technological development we have now is an interesting thought experiment.

But who knows what kind of civilization we would have now absent 2000 years of Christian influence that shaped the West, that led us through the dark ages of the collapse of Rome, that led to the first universities, the discovery of the New World, the Renaissance, and then the Enlightenment? Do you think Christian beliefs had nothing to do with that historical progression?

Jesus came at a pivotal point where Rome had a unified empire, trade routes, and road systems that enabled it to spread quickly throughout its colonies.

In a mere 300 years or so after his humiliating crucifixion, Christianity becomes the state religion of Rome and seals the deal. The same Rome who crucified him. Weird, huh?
 
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NDE said:
I had a Near Death Experience, just like the tens of thousands of fully documented NDE cases and thousands of NDE Experiencers who have posted there NDE Experience on Youtube. The NDE Experience is VERY real and approximately one third of NDE Experiencers have an encounter with "GOD", who appears in many forms to make the NDE experiencer comfortable. The majority of the time GOD appears as pure energy. However, for a Christian it can appear as Jesus, for a Buddhist as Buddha, for a Muslem as Mohammed. There was a case of a ****** lady who had 2 rabbis that appeared to her. All communication is telepathic. Approximately out of of four has a Life Review, where GOD shows you the good and bad you did in your live. GOD does not judge you, you judge yourself. I highly recommend that you read the book by one of the major NDE researchers in the world, Dr. Jeffrey Long. He has been collecting NDE surveys for more than 20 years and has over 10,000 cases. His lates book is titled "GOD and the Afterlife". This is his website: https://www.nderf.org/

So my answer to your initial question is: Yes, but not a religious GOD-- GOD is much more complicated and much more benevolent than the biblical version, which is just one of thousands of religions known to humanity-- where most religions claim that only "their own religion" is correct and all the others will burn in hill. These are man-made stories. If you want to learn about GOD, ask the people that died and came back to life.
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I like that you used "most".
 
We've already locked one thread because of painting with a broad brush. Let's not make it a habit.
 
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