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D$, Lu, Pete et al: DBs currently on roster

grover

Senior
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
8,348
What's your evaluation of their ability to start or contribute with quality play next year. Not asking for Sean Taylor or Ed Reed. But do any of them have the ability to step up and play like Corn, Artie, Deon... or even Tracey and Gunter? How big a drop-off in talent are we talking, if any?

Safeties
Johnson
Knowles
Finley
Wright
James

CBs
Mayes
Redwine
Jackson
Henley
Young
 
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KrazyCane

SAVAGE
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
10,888
Malek Young and Sheldrick Redwine are going to be solid corners for us next year.

And hopefully Romeo Finley takes the next step bc him and Jaquan Johnson have potential as our next safety duo IMO.
 

252cane

All-ACC
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Messages
13,403
Malek Young and Shedrick Redwine are going to be solid corners for us next year.

And hopefully Romeo Finley takes the next step bc him and Jaquan Johnson have potential as our next safety duo IMO.

Redwine needs to move to fs.
 

KrazyCane

SAVAGE
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
10,888
Malek Young and Shedrick Redwine are going to be solid corners for us next year.

And hopefully Romeo Finley takes the next step bc him and Jaquan Johnson have potential as our next safety duo IMO.

Redwine needs to move to fs.

He may have more upside there but we don't have the cb depth to move him. I believe he had a solid season this year I'm sure he would continue to improve as a cb next year.
 

Tampabaycane

Redshirt Freshman
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
235
We need Dean in the worst way. Older guy who from what everyone says is good. Carter I also think will throw his hat in the ring and give the returning guys a run for their money. Just need DJ or Bandy to step up. I will feel a lot better after 2018 recruiting cycle but it is what it is.
 

DerekDohrman

Senior
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Messages
2,763
What's your evaluation of their ability to start or contribute with quality play next year. Not asking for Sean Taylor or Ed Reed. But do any of them have the ability to step up and play like Corn, Artie, Deon... or even Tracey and Gunter? How big a drop-off in talent are we talking, if any?

Safeties
Johnson
Knowles
Finley
Wright
James

CBs
Mayes
Redwine
Jackson
Henley


young?
 

Genghis Cane

Chicken Wing Connoisseur
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
8,067
That list doesn't excite me at all. Doesn't mean I wont be pleasantly surprised; however, I have a gut feeling we are going to need people in this incoming recruiting class to contribute in significant ways.
 
Joined
Aug 31, 2016
Messages
3,802
Top 3 corners next season:

Dean
Young
Bandy

Top 3 safeties:

Johnson
Redwine
Finley

I do think Mike Jackson steps up next year
 

grover

Senior
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
8,348
Any thoughts on Wright and James? Can either of them be as good as, or better than, this year's safeties next season?
 

grover

Senior
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
8,348
What's your evaluation of their ability to start or contribute with quality play next year. Not asking for Sean Taylor or Ed Reed. But do any of them have the ability to step up and play like Corn, Artie, Deon... or even Tracey and Gunter? How big a drop-off in talent are we talking, if any?

Safeties
Johnson
Knowles
Finley
Wright
James

CBs
Mayes
Redwine
Jackson
Henley


young?

Thanks, I didn't forget him, lol. He's our best returning CB. But I somehow deleted his name while editing my post before I published. I added it back in.
 

brock

All-American
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
38,825
Don't know why y'all so worried like Jaquan johnson, sheldrick redwine and malek all didn't play a ton if not starter minutes this past year. With the incoming recruits it should be a good group
 

LuCane

Administrator
Administrator
Joined
Oct 21, 2011
Messages
14,210
The key is Dean. One of the more important defensive recruits in some time because his presence sends a ripple effect across the unit. It'd potentially allow us to maintain or increase effectiveness next year, despite losing 3/4 DBs.

Cornerbacks

- From what I've seen of Dean, he's got great feet, long arms, but a slighter build. If you look at him and watch him move, he's in that Antonio Rodgers-Cromartie mold, where he's sticky to receivers, flips his hips easily and changes direction. Question is going to be if he tackles and plays the way Diaz and clan expect of their DBs. It's absolutely imperative for CBs to tackle, be feisty and fight off stuff downhill. Otherwise, 2-read coverages don't work very well.

- Malek Young is a guy I've been fairly vocal about in terms of excitement. They list him at 5' 9", but from what i've seen, he plays bigger. He has awesome acceleration and that's what separates him. I think he plays the Corn spot. And, I've said he probably gives us about 75% of what Corn gave us this year. So, not the out of this world dropoff some might expect, despite Corn's awesomeness tackling and as a zone corner.

The rest is questionable, and I'll wait for Spring practice to provide more detailed responses:

- Redwine looked bad in moments, but I don't think he's nearly as bad as some make him out to be. He does a few of the things Diaz asks of his corners very well. He just can't accelerate enough to do some of the other things - like change direction in Cover 3 drops, chase a guy vertically, etc. Everyone keeps mentioning him as a FS, but I'll wait to see it to comment on that move.

- Michael Jackson flashed at times, but mostly athletically. He's big and rangier than I thought, and I think a good fit to play outside while Young and Dean can kick inside in Nickel and Dime packages at times.

- I don't know if Mayes will hold off some of the incomers, but we shall see.

- You didn't list him, but I've said on the recruiting board that I think Deejay Dallas should get his first look as a CB. I imagined him smaller, but D$ mentioned he's actually a legit 5' 11" 185+. When I watch his feet and change of direction, I think of someone like Janoris Jenkins. Not necessarily *blazing* speed (comparable to other corners), but probably a legit 4.5 guy soon enough and excellent balance. His attributes scream "let's look at this guy as a corner." Some have said FS. I have no idea. I haven't watched him enough in tackling, etc., to comment on whether he fits that in Diaz's defense.

- Bandy is basically made to play Nickel corner. His short area is elite. He's apparently strong enough. I'd be surprised if he didn't get an immediate look inside and be made into a sorta "DB specialist" during his first year.

Safeties

- Jaquan Johnson is the only steady returning guy, and that's both scary and disappointing. Should not happen at Miami. I'm not sure how Miami scrambles to find rangier Safeties. I would have liked to see us recruit a guy like Shawn Davis as a priority, Collier and Edwards as backup plans and trial guys at S. We'll see if we surprise with a Paris Ford or someone like that.

- Knowles looked ok to me tackling, but is going to have to really step up if we don't slide someone else, like Redwine, over there. I'm hesitant.

- Romeo Finley actually flashed a bit when I've watched him, but doesn't change direction well enough to be the complement we need to Jaquan. I suspect it's going to be his job, but who knows if/when things shake out with positions.

- Believe it or not, I think Cedrick Wright can contribute here in a specialist role. He's a really willing tackler and fills well. He has one problem, though: Jaquan Johnson is the best Nickel on the team, probably, and if he's forced to play Safety, then Wright will still have to fight it out with superior athletes like Bandy.

- No comments on James. When I was given the opportunity to watch practices, I simply don't remember enough of him.

- Don't know if the incoming recruits - Carter and Smith - have sufficient range to fill the Rayshawn Jenkins role - a guy I think we chastised too often and who we will miss a bit. Deejay Dallas may be an option, as he's an EE, smart player, great feet and will have sufficient range. Problem is we don't know on the tackling.

- I've said on the recruiting board that we basically need the 2018 class of Safeties this year. Gilbert Frierson is my favorite recruit and may not be as good as Gurvan Hall. There's also the kid from Heritage. Won't make this a Rumph thread. Anyway, *those* types are the guys who are perfect, perfect fits for Diaz's scheme. As the LBs get better and better and Diaz gains confidence in them making their drops and tightening up their zones, I think you'll see Diaz become even more aggressive at times with his packages. To optimize all of that, we need a Derwin James type.

Like I said in another thread yesterday, if you've played DB, you know you are, at most times, a product of what's going on with the front 7. You can really make plays and complement what they do, but it starts with them. Luckily, I'd be surprised if there's a better front 7 than ours in the nation next year.
 
Last edited:

calinative umstudent

All-ACC
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
9,217
The key is Dean. One of the more important defensive recruits in some time because his presence sends a ripple effect across the unit. It'd potentially allow us to maintain or increase effectiveness next year, despite losing 3/4 DBs.

Cornerbacks

- From what I've seen of Dean, he's got great feet, long arms, but a slighter build. If you look at him and watch him move, he's in that Antonio Rodgers-Cromartie mold, where he's sticky to receivers, flips his hips easily and changes direction. Question is going to be if he tackles and plays the way Diaz and clan expect of their DBs. It's absolutely imperative for CBs to tackle, be feisty and fight off stuff downhill. Otherwise, 2-read coverages don't work very well.

- Malek Young is a guy I've been fairly vocal about in terms of excitement. They list him at 5' 9", but from what i've seen, he plays bigger. He has awesome acceleration and that's what separates him. I think he plays the Corn spot. And, I've said he probably gives us about 75% of what Corn gave us this year. So, not the out of this world dropoff some might expect, despite Corn's awesomeness tackling and as a zone corner.

The rest is questionable, and I'll wait for Spring practice to provide more detailed responses:

- Redwine looked bad in moments, but I don't think he's nearly as bad as some make him out to be. He does a few of the things Diaz asks of his corners very well. He just can't accelerate enough to do some of the other things - like change direction in Cover 3 drops, chase a guy vertically, etc. Everyone keeps mentioning him as a FS, but I'll wait to see it to comment on that move.

- Michael Jackson flashed at times, but mostly athletically. He's big and rangier than I thought, and I think a good fit to play outside while Young and Dean can kick inside in Nickel and Dime packages at times.

- I don't know if Mayes will hold off some of the incomers, but we shall see.

- You didn't list him, but I've said on the recruiting board that I think Deejay Dallas should get his first look as a CB. I imagined him smaller, but D$ mentioned he's actually a legit 5' 11" 185+. When I watch his feet and change of direction, I think of someone like Janoris Jenkins. Not necessarily *blazing* speed (comparable to other corners), but probably a legit 4.5 guy soon enough and excellent balance. His attributes scream "let's look at this guy as a corner." Some have said FS. I have no idea. I haven't watched him enough in tackling, etc., to comment on whether he fits that in Diaz's defense.

- Bandy is basically made to play Nickel corner. His short area is elite. He's apparently strong enough. I'd be surprised if he didn't get an immediate look inside and be made into a sorta "DB specialist" during his first year.

Safeties

- Jaquan Johnson is the only steady returning guy, and that's both scary and disappointing. Should not happen at Miami. I'm not sure how Miami scrambles to find rangier Safeties. I would have liked to see us recruit a guy like Shawn Davis as a priority, Collier and Edwards as backup plans and trial guys at S. We'll see if we surprise with a Paris Ford or someone like that.

- Knowles looked ok to me tackling, but is going to have to really step up if we don't slide someone else, like Redwine, over there. I'm hesitant.

- Romeo Finley actually flashed a bit when I've watched him, but doesn't change direction well enough to be the complement we need to Jaquan. I suspect it's going to be his job, but who knows if/when things shake out with positions.

- Believe it or not, I think Cedrick Wright can contribute here in a specialist role. He's a really willing tackler and fills well. He has one problem, though: Jaquan Johnson is the best Nickel on the team, probably, and if he's forced to play Safety, then Wright will still have to fight it out with superior athletes like Bandy.

- No comments on James. When I was given the opportunity to watch practices, I simply don't remember enough of him.

- Don't know if the incoming recruits - Carter and Smith - have sufficient range to fill the Rayshawn Jenkins role - a guy I think we chastised too often and who we will miss a bit. Deejay Dallas may be an option, as he's an EE, smart player, great feet and will have sufficient range. Problem is we don't know on the tackling.

- I've said on the recruiting board that we basically need the 2018 class of Safeties this year. Gilbert Frierson is my favorite recruit and may not be as good as Gurvan Hall. There's also the kid from Heritage. Won't make this a Rumph thread. Anyway, *those* types are the guys who are perfect, perfect fits for Diaz's scheme. As the LBs get better and better and Diaz gains confidence in them making their drops and tightening up their zones, I think you'll see Diaz become even more aggressive at times with his packages. To optimize all of that, we need a Derwin James type.

Like I said in another thread yesterday, if you've played DB, you know you are, at most times, a product of what's going on with the front 7. You can really make plays and complement what they do, but it starts with them. Luckily, I'd be surprised if there's a better front 7 than ours in the nation next year.

Great write up of our DB situation.
Plus our DL getting 1 year older and improved will only help our DBs. After all the best pass defense is a pass rush.
our DB performance independent of the front 7 will see a drop off from this past year. But, luckily thats not how that works...and we may see more production out of these dbs, after all we didn't get many interceptions this year, I expect that to improve.
 

grover

Senior
Joined
Jan 30, 2012
Messages
8,348
Thanks, Lu, great write-up. I'm excited about Johnson and Young. But nothing you wrote gives me confidence in the other guys currently on roster. I have no issue with your assessment of Redwine, but that's not a glowing statement. He won't be a game changer.

I'm disappointed no one glows about Wright, Finley or James like we see with Mullins at WR and Homer at RB, both of whom also got very few snaps. You usually hear about guys that are blowing up in practice even if they're not getting snaps. Which suggests to me that 3 of 5 spots are most likely going to be won by incomers. Dean, Carter, Bandy and DeeJay most obvious options.

Not the end of the world. It worked at LB this past year, and like Lu notes, the front 7 will be dominant. But I was hoping some of our second-string DBs (especially Jackson, who supposedly has the athleticism) would take a big step forward.
 

scrantoncane

Sophomore
Premium
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Messages
2,753
I've started threads about redwine and don't like what I see. Don't see it in Young either.

I think it's gonna be a rough year in the secondary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

calinative umstudent

All-ACC
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
9,217
I've started threads about redwine and don't like what I see. Don't see it in Young either.

I think it's gonna be a rough year in the secondary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Young will be good next year.
Redwine played all season at CB, and other than his speed he was fine. This is why most people want him switched over to FS....well that and we have nobody besides Jaquan (and James) to play that position.

We wont be as good in the secondary, but that doesn't mean we cant get the same production or more out of this unit. I think next year we can get more than 7 INTs. Plus next year our Pass Rush will likely be even better than it was this season, which will mask many of our weaknesses.
 

KrazyCane

SAVAGE
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
10,888
Against what teams will our secondary next year have trouble dealing with week in and out? Wit the best front 7 in the country making their jobs easier?
 

rip327

Recruit
Joined
Jun 3, 2016
Messages
23
The key is Dean. One of the more important defensive recruits in some time because his presence sends a ripple effect across the unit. It'd potentially allow us to maintain or increase effectiveness next year, despite losing 3/4 DBs.

Cornerbacks

- From what I've seen of Dean, he's got great feet, long arms, but a slighter build. If you look at him and watch him move, he's in that Antonio Rodgers-Cromartie mold, where he's sticky to receivers, flips his hips easily and changes direction. Question is going to be if he tackles and plays the way Diaz and clan expect of their DBs. It's absolutely imperative for CBs to tackle, be feisty and fight off stuff downhill. Otherwise, 2-read coverages don't work very well.

- Malek Young is a guy I've been fairly vocal about in terms of excitement. They list him at 5' 9", but from what i've seen, he plays bigger. He has awesome acceleration and that's what separates him. I think he plays the Corn spot. And, I've said he probably gives us about 75% of what Corn gave us this year. So, not the out of this world dropoff some might expect, despite Corn's awesomeness tackling and as a zone corner.

The rest is questionable, and I'll wait for Spring practice to provide more detailed responses:

- Redwine looked bad in moments, but I don't think he's nearly as bad as some make him out to be. He does a few of the things Diaz asks of his corners very well. He just can't accelerate enough to do some of the other things - like change direction in Cover 3 drops, chase a guy vertically, etc. Everyone keeps mentioning him as a FS, but I'll wait to see it to comment on that move.

- Michael Jackson flashed at times, but mostly athletically. He's big and rangier than I thought, and I think a good fit to play outside while Young and Dean can kick inside in Nickel and Dime packages at times.

- I don't know if Mayes will hold off some of the incomers, but we shall see.

- You didn't list him, but I've said on the recruiting board that I think Deejay Dallas should get his first look as a CB. I imagined him smaller, but D$ mentioned he's actually a legit 5' 11" 185+. When I watch his feet and change of direction, I think of someone like Janoris Jenkins. Not necessarily *blazing* speed (comparable to other corners), but probably a legit 4.5 guy soon enough and excellent balance. His attributes scream "let's look at this guy as a corner." Some have said FS. I have no idea. I haven't watched him enough in tackling, etc., to comment on whether he fits that in Diaz's defense.

- Bandy is basically made to play Nickel corner. His short area is elite. He's apparently strong enough. I'd be surprised if he didn't get an immediate look inside and be made into a sorta "DB specialist" during his first year.

Safeties

- Jaquan Johnson is the only steady returning guy, and that's both scary and disappointing. Should not happen at Miami. I'm not sure how Miami scrambles to find rangier Safeties. I would have liked to see us recruit a guy like Shawn Davis as a priority, Collier and Edwards as backup plans and trial guys at S. We'll see if we surprise with a Paris Ford or someone like that.

- Knowles looked ok to me tackling, but is going to have to really step up if we don't slide someone else, like Redwine, over there. I'm hesitant.

- Romeo Finley actually flashed a bit when I've watched him, but doesn't change direction well enough to be the complement we need to Jaquan. I suspect it's going to be his job, but who knows if/when things shake out with positions.

- Believe it or not, I think Cedrick Wright can contribute here in a specialist role. He's a really willing tackler and fills well. He has one problem, though: Jaquan Johnson is the best Nickel on the team, probably, and if he's forced to play Safety, then Wright will still have to fight it out with superior athletes like Bandy.

- No comments on James. When I was given the opportunity to watch practices, I simply don't remember enough of him.

- Don't know if the incoming recruits - Carter and Smith - have sufficient range to fill the Rayshawn Jenkins role - a guy I think we chastised too often and who we will miss a bit. Deejay Dallas may be an option, as he's an EE, smart player, great feet and will have sufficient range. Problem is we don't know on the tackling.

- I've said on the recruiting board that we basically need the 2018 class of Safeties this year. Gilbert Frierson is my favorite recruit and may not be as good as Gurvan Hall. There's also the kid from Heritage. Won't make this a Rumph thread. Anyway, *those* types are the guys who are perfect, perfect fits for Diaz's scheme. As the LBs get better and better and Diaz gains confidence in them making their drops and tightening up their zones, I think you'll see Diaz become even more aggressive at times with his packages. To optimize all of that, we need a Derwin James type.

Like I said in another thread yesterday, if you've played DB, you know you are, at most times, a product of what's going on with the front 7. You can really make plays and complement what they do, but it starts with them. Luckily, I'd be surprised if there's a better front 7 than ours in the nation next year.

Great write up of our DB situation.
Plus our DL getting 1 year older and improved will only help our DBs. After all the best pass defense is a pass rush.
our DB performance independent of the front 7 will see a drop off from this past year. But, luckily thats not how that works...and we may see more production out of these dbs, after all we didn't get many interceptions this year, I expect that to improve.

Excellent write up. Really hoping to land Edwards and Dean to help with depth here. However there is one comment I think is missing here. If noticed in WVA bowl game, the team blitzed a lot less often than it did in past. With JJax taking a bigger role and rest of DL improving we demonstrated the ability to still have a dominant pass rush with only the front 4. With everyone on DL back and potentially adding guys like DJ and Garvin to rotation I believe we will see a lot less blitzing from Diaz in year 2 as the DL continues to wreck havoc in opposing backfields. This will let the LBs drop back into zone coverage more and help out the secondary in coverage.
 
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