D Line: 2017 vs 2024

[OrangeBowlMagic]

If health is guaranteed, this one. Age plays.

I'm kinda leaning this.

CJ Clark is a 6th year senior
Simeon Barrow is a 5th year senior
Marley Cook is a 6th year senior

These are 23-24 year old men who have played a ton of football. Again, not likely high impact NFL guys, but grown men who will hold up at the point of attack, all in their money year, highly motivated and experienced as ****. That's a solid core of old dudes who are only going to be required to play on early downs and short yardage. These kids aren't going to be asked to play 50 snaps a game.

Then you add Moten and Horton, who are both several years into a S&C program, Moten especially in Year 3 at 325 pounds. Can these kids give you ~10 productive snaps a game? I don't see why not.

Now add the dancing bear unicorn Justin Scott and Mr Olympia Artavius Jones, I think it's a good group.

 

[Manfred_Cane]

I will say this, if there’s ever anything that correlates overall team success, it’s DL.

The last two times UM has won 10+ games (2003 & 2017) both teams had 7 plus NFL players on the DL (regardless of age).

Do y’all see 7 NFL players on this DL? I say yes with ease.

Bain, Mesidor, Baron, Alston, Barrow, CJ Clark, and then you can make the case for multiple backups just based on projection.

 

[F-MarioCristobal]

1st string:
DE: Thomas </= Mesidor - lean Mesidor here especially as a college talent but very close
DT: Norton >/= Clark - close but I think Norton is more twitchy. Norton was a 7th rounder and I think Clark could go higher than that.
DT: McIntosh > Barrow - again very close - Barrow may be more natural and stout as a DT. Mac was a 5th rounder. Similar draft profile for Barrow.
DE: J. Jackson < Bain

2nd string:
DE: Harris > Alston - another close one. Similar players but Harris was very good in 2017
DT: Anthony Moten >/= Ahmad Moten - Need to see how this one plays out in 2024. Older Moten was nothing special.
DT: Bethel < Cook - Bethel was only a soph and got moved fairly easily in the run game. Cook is a seasoned vet that is more stout and still more twitchy.
DE: D. Jackson < Baron - not even close. Undraftable injury riddled player compared to someone that could play into the 2nd round.

3rd string:
DE: Garvin < Bryant/Lightfoot/Pickett/Rudolph- All true freshman/RS freshman - I think Lightfoot has a entire different skill level than Garvin. Pickett and Rudolph are probably just too small this year.
DT: Ford < Horton/Campbell - Ford barely played. I expect Horton to take a nice step this year. Campbell a dark horse difference maker.
DT: Ryan Fines < Scott/Jones - LOL
DE: Patchan < McConathy - Patchan barely played and was injured I think. McConathy is getting rave reviews.

Give me the 2024 DL. Willis didn't play in 2017 and I think on the surface without even seeing it play out, there is significantly more depth and I would even say more star power and more NFL talent. 2024 has a chance to really blow 2017 out of the water if someone like Justin Scott, Moten, or Horton take off.

 

[The U is back to work]

Those DEs in 2017 were all very solid football players. The 2024 DEs have major star potential with 4 capable of 9 sacks.

 

[jrock2332]

I'll take 2024 overall because they probably have better coaching and equal talent

 

[F-MarioCristobal]

Comparing the rest of the defense in both years:

1st string:
MLB: Shaq < Mauigoa - Huge Shaq fan. Kiko does more and is more modern LB and a difference maker blitzing. Better draft profile IMHO
WLB: Pinckney > Bissainthe - All the hype around Wes could flip this one. Pink was a stud college LB though.
SLB: McCloud > Pruitt - McCloud had a good year in 2017 compared to some young pups this year. 2024 is ultimately more raw talent though.
Star/Striker/Nickel: Bandy >/= Brown - Very tough call. Had to give it to Bandy. Brown could change my mind this year. This was before Romeo Finley became a stud at the Striker position.
CB1: Young < Porter - Close call. Really liked Young but the coverage/target stats speak for themselves.
CB2: Jackson > Richard - Jackson was stud. Had a great season.
FS: Redwine < Powell - Edge to Powell but very close. Redwine's best year came in 2018 and I'd give the 2018 version the nod over Powell but very similar players.
SS: Johnson > Harris - Harris has more athletic ability but Jaquan was a vacuum on the backend cleaning up everything. Led team in tackles and INTs

2nd string:
MLB: Smith < Aguirre - Night and day. This was before Mike Smith had his best year in 2018.
WLB: Owens < Alderman - Night and day
SLB: Perry/Wilder < Washington - Talent gap is huge
Star/Striker: Derrick Smith < 2024 - Smith was terrible. Seems like we'll rotate from other position groups for 2nd string in 2024. Anyone is better than Smith
CB3: Delaney </= Hill - Close but Hill just seems like a better cover guy to me. Delaney was slow.
CB4: Dean > Stafford/OJ/Mack - Until I see Stafford/Frederique/Mack on the field. Dean was nothing special as a player but had length and speed.
FS: Knowles < Williams - This was before Knowles became serviceable
SS: Carter < Patterson - Totally different talent level

2024 almost completely sweeps the 2nd string. Might be a clean sweep by the end of the year. 1st string is close. The depth is just totally different now compared to then. Just need the secondary depth/talent level to come along a little bit.

 

[YUMU]

I hope and expect the current DL to be way better
DL played great vs ND
But Clemson OL toyed with them in the ACC game


That being said … man what IF we have Quan, Red, Mike J and Malek back there this year… not asking for our all time greats. Just for those 4 in their 2017 version

 

[Sugarcane521]

Ends are better now, although 2017 was very good. The 2017 tackles were more talented (not including the 2024 freshmen) but the 2024 crew has more age.

I know the OP is comparing DL but I look at the front 7 as a package and our LB corps is way better this year

 

[Empirical Cane]

Which one do you think is better on paper? (Obviously 2024 hasn't played together yet)

2017:

Ends
Chad Thomas
Demetrius Jackson
Trent Harris
Jonathan Garvin
Joe Jackson
Scott Patchan

Tackles
Kendrick Norton
Gerald Willis III
RJ McIntosh
Anthony Moten
Jonathan Ford
Pat Bethel


2024:

 Ends
Tyler Baron
Rueben Bain
Akheem Mesidor
Elijah Alston
Marquise Lightfoot
Cole McConathy
Armondo Blount
Booker Pickett

Tackles:
Simeon Barrow Jr.
CJ Clark
Marley Cook
Justin Scott
Ahmad Moten
Joshua Horton
Anthony Campbell
Artavious Jones

DT1 = Willis
DT2-X = 24 Roster

I can't name a single 2017 DE that starts in 2024. They might not even be DE2. Not an attack on anyone, just is.

Am I wrong here?

 

[mcnaire2004]

G didn't play in 2017. But yeah DTs were good. I was worried when both left early but G was enough to pick up the slack in 18

 

[ageezy]

I'm kinda leaning this.

CJ Clark is a 6th year senior
Simeon Barrow is a 5th year senior
Marley Cook is a 6th year senior

These are 23-24 year old men who have played a ton of football. Again, not likely high impact NFL guys, but grown men who will hold up at the point of attack, all in their money year, highly motivated and experienced as ****. That's a solid core of old dudes who are only going to be required to play on early downs and short yardage. These kids aren't going to be asked to play 50 snaps a game.

Then you add Moten and Horton, who are both several years into a S&C program, Moten especially in Year 3 at 325 pounds. Can these kids give you ~10 productive snaps a game? I don't see why not.

Now add the dancing bear unicorn Justin Scott and Mr Olympia Artavius Jones, I think it's a good group.

you prefer your offensive and defensive line to have a rick ross beard

 

[90scane]

That 2017 group should be a prime example for returning for another year. How many of them got a second contract?

 

[BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati]

I'm not sure how anyone can really start making comparisons between the new guys on this year's squad to 2017. First off, we have literally no idea how any of the true freshmen nor redshirt freshmen will do. Secondly, other guys like Ahmad Moten haven't sniffed the field in a couple yers here so how can we say what's going to happen? Sure, I can guess too, but we haven't seen anything yet. Because this year's list is so young, I think it'll be interesting to see how it looks/feels in a few years when the Dancing Bear and Mr. Olympia (shout out to the homie that coined that name - love it) have had a couple years to develop.

 

[mcnaire2004]

I miss those Manny as DC defenses.

All those down votes of people who don't remember 2011-2015 but are in a thread taking about 2017. 2016-2018, the Manny era was top notch. Most these fools were saying "we wasted a championship level D in 18."

Manny has a special place in my heart for his time as DC.

 

[PaulBufano]

All those down votes of people who don't remember 2011-2015 but are in a thread taking about 2017. 2016-2018, the Manny era was top notch. Most these fools were saying "we wasted a championship level D in 18."

Manny has a special place in my heart for his time as DC.

100%. Manny was a solid DC. The truth is that UM is not a top level program and doesn't have national championship level talent, or anywhere close to it. Manny & Richt made the defense fun to watch again and got the most out of it they could.

 

[Manfred_Cane]

Comparing the rest of the defense in both years:

1st string:
MLB: Shaq < Mauigoa - Huge Shaq fan. Kiko does more and is more modern LB and a difference maker blitzing. Better draft profile IMHO
WLB: Pinckney > Bissainthe - All the hype around Wes could flip this one. Pink was a stud college LB though.
SLB: McCloud > Pruitt - McCloud had a good year in 2017 compared to some young pups this year. 2024 is ultimately more raw talent though.
Star/Striker/Nickel: Bandy >/= Brown - Very tough call. Had to give it to Bandy. Brown could change my mind this year. This was before Romeo Finley became a stud at the Striker position.
CB1: Young < Porter - Close call. Really liked Young but the coverage/target stats speak for themselves.
CB2: Jackson > Richard - Jackson was stud. Had a great season.
FS: Redwine < Powell - Edge to Powell but very close. Redwine's best year came in 2018 and I'd give the 2018 version the nod over Powell but very similar players.
SS: Johnson > Harris - Harris has more athletic ability but Jaquan was a vacuum on the backend cleaning up everything. Led team in tackles and INTs

2nd string:
MLB: Smith < Aguirre - Night and day. This was before Mike Smith had his best year in 2018.
WLB: Owens < Alderman - Night and day
SLB: Perry/Wilder < Washington - Talent gap is huge
Star/Striker: Derrick Smith < 2024 - Smith was terrible. Seems like we'll rotate from other position groups for 2nd string in 2024. Anyone is better than Smith
CB3: Delaney </= Hill - Close but Hill just seems like a better cover guy to me. Delaney was slow.
CB4: Dean > Stafford/OJ/Mack - Until I see Stafford/Frederique/Mack on the field. Dean was nothing special as a player but had length and speed.
FS: Knowles < Williams - This was before Knowles became serviceable
SS: Carter < Patterson - Totally different talent level

2024 almost completely sweeps the 2nd string. Might be a clean sweep by the end of the year. 1st string is close. The depth is just totally different now compared to then. Just need the secondary depth/talent level to come along a little bit.

Some of these names are giving me PTSD

 

[The U is back to work]

If this team just had Mike Jackson we’d be undefeated

 

[Shooter McGavin]

That 2017 group should be a prime example for returning for another year. How many of them got a second contract?

Well Norton had that terrible accident but even before then I think he wouldn’t have made his second contact, Mac didn’t make his second contract. Those two got terrible advice and I remember Pete was the scapegoat there. Bandy left early after 2019 and is out of the league now.
Joe Jackson I think is out of the league after leaving early in 2018 and I think Garvin just got picked up by SF but he made a mistake not coming back.

Johnson, Jackson, and Redwine made the right calls staying for 2018 and they are all still in the league.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Comparing the rest of the defense in both years:

1st string:
MLB: Shaq < Mauigoa - Huge Shaq fan. Kiko does more and is more modern LB and a difference maker blitzing. Better draft profile IMHO
WLB: Pinckney > Bissainthe - All the hype around Wes could flip this one. Pink was a stud college LB though.
SLB: McCloud > Pruitt - McCloud had a good year in 2017 compared to some young pups this year. 2024 is ultimately more raw talent though.
Star/Striker/Nickel: Bandy >/= Brown - Very tough call. Had to give it to Bandy. Brown could change my mind this year. This was before Romeo Finley became a stud at the Striker position.
CB1: Young < Porter - Close call. Really liked Young but the coverage/target stats speak for themselves.
CB2: Jackson > Richard - Jackson was stud. Had a great season.
FS: Redwine < Powell - Edge to Powell but very close. Redwine's best year came in 2018 and I'd give the 2018 version the nod over Powell but very similar players.
SS: Johnson > Harris - Harris has more athletic ability but Jaquan was a vacuum on the backend cleaning up everything. Led team in tackles and INTs

2nd string:
MLB: Smith < Aguirre - Night and day. This was before Mike Smith had his best year in 2018.
WLB: Owens < Alderman - Night and day
SLB: Perry/Wilder < Washington - Talent gap is huge
Star/Striker: Derrick Smith < 2024 - Smith was terrible. Seems like we'll rotate from other position groups for 2nd string in 2024. Anyone is better than Smith
CB3: Delaney </= Hill - Close but Hill just seems like a better cover guy to me. Delaney was slow.
CB4: Dean > Stafford/OJ/Mack - Until I see Stafford/Frederique/Mack on the field. Dean was nothing special as a player but had length and speed.
FS: Knowles < Williams - This was before Knowles became serviceable
SS: Carter < Patterson - Totally different talent level

2024 almost completely sweeps the 2nd string. Might be a clean sweep by the end of the year. 1st string is close. The depth is just totally different now compared to then. Just need the secondary depth/talent level to come along a little bit.

Delaney had a tough time transitioning to FBS level early on but he came on as the season went on. Was hurt for most of the year I think too. I think he’s still in the league. Amari Carter was one of the worst safeties I’ve ever seen. Him and Gurvan Hall give AJ Highsmith and Kacy Rodgers a run for their money. The only defense I have towards Highsmith is he was a former QB and moved to safety in 2011.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

If this team just had Mike Jackson we’d be undefeated

Jackson was the breakout guy in the 2017 season. 3 star out of Bama was expected to be a rotational guy and turned out to be one of our best d men during 2017 and 2018.