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coaching vs. superior talent

ageezy

Cane til I Die
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
1,013
do you think the upgrade of our coaching staff can make of for the lack of superior talent?

in future years i would be concerned because of the previous staffs inability to coach kids up . . . do you all have that same concern?

or if we miss on an edwards/henderson you have faith that the staff will coach up redwine, jackson, etc?
 

Insanecane

Junior
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
3,087
Coaching and player development is #1 IMO. People speak about Butch as a recruiter, but I believe his biggest impact was as a player developer -ie- hiring the right hungry and skilled assistant coaches for development and setting the tone for the team.
Santana Moss- track guy, developed into a stud WR
Dan Morgan- RB, developed into the most decorated college LBer ever.

Just a couple of examples.

Now, if you can both recruit and coach up/develop talent...that is what gets you into the big January bowl games.
 

ageezy

Cane til I Die
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
1,013
Coaching and player development is #1 IMO. People speak about Butch as a recruiter, but I believe his biggest impact was as a player developer -ie- hiring the right hungry and skilled assistant coaches for development and setting the tone for the team.
Santana Moss- track guy, developed into a stud WR
Dan Morgan- RB, developed into the most decorated college LBer ever.

Just a couple of examples.

Now, if you can both recruit and coach up/develop talent...that is what gets you into the big January bowl games.

do we have that now?
 

UMFarArcher

All-ACC
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
13,503
As I'm painfully reminded of in November - don't forget play calling.

Stubborn play calling to do something that's not there - will kill a team.
 

FG305

Dat Rang
Joined
Nov 7, 2011
Messages
2,145
Coaching and player development is #1 IMO. People speak about Butch as a recruiter, but I believe his biggest impact was as a player developer -ie- hiring the right hungry and skilled assistant coaches for development and setting the tone for the team.
Santana Moss- track guy, developed into a stud WR
Dan Morgan- RB, developed into the most decorated college LBer ever.

Just a couple of examples.

Now, if you can both recruit and coach up/develop talent...that is what gets you into the big January bowl games.

Most power-5 schools can give examples of underrated players that blew up after high school even under crap coaches. Saban wasn't sh.it until he inherited sec bagmen at LSU.
 

DTP

Section 102
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Messages
9,547
I think it's a bit too early to be 100% positive about every member of the staff but so far, as a whole, their ability to actually coach players is a night and day difference over what we've had here previously. We've seen previous coaching staffs recruit top 15, even top 5 classes here only to watch the players' abilities stagnate or even get worse. As for a lack of "superior talent", if the staff continues to have success coaching players up on the field, you'll start to see an uptick in recruiting numbers. Clemson is a good example of a program that was pulling in good but not fantastic recruiting classes but as the product on the field improved, their level of recruiting did too. It's no coincidence that winning on the field and in recruiting go hand in hand. A lot of kids these days are front runners. They want to play for winners. Win consistently and more kids will sign up to play here.
 

kalinis

Sophomore
Joined
Dec 14, 2015
Messages
1,044
do you think the upgrade of our coaching staff can make of for the lack of superior talent?

in future years i would be concerned because of the previous staffs inability to coach kids up . . . do you all have that same concern?

or if we miss on an edwards/henderson you have faith that the staff will coach up redwine, jackson, etc?
this staff already proved are head and shoulders above last staff. just look at how all 3 lb's improved in yr 1 and season went along, look at joe Jackson, look at redwine, and the cb's improved play,

coaching kids up matter but so does talent and the difference in number 1 class and number 15 isn't a huge gap, now 1 and 30 is huge gap but usually if u are in top 15 u can compete year in year out for title if coaches any good. this staff will be a top 15 class this year and next year even higher just because the more they win on field the more kids in south florida will stay home.
 

Mud

Recruit
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Messages
29
I lean more toward coaching. With that being said there are mediocre coaches like Butch Davis and Larry Coker who have managed to win big because of the talent their team has.
 

01Canes

Senior
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,093
do you think the upgrade of our coaching staff can make of for the lack of superior talent?

No. Not at all. October proved that.

Either this staff will land the type of top talent they need to move this program forward or we'll continue to be stuck in 8-9 win purgatory.
 

Canes91

Freshman
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
974
Win games be being will coached and discipline.

Win championships by having elite talent.
 

daddacane

Senior
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Messages
2,576
ENTHUSIASUM for the game of football is the key ingredient to a well rounded football team...Usually taught by coaching...
 

ChosenOne

Band
Banned
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
2,627
without elite talent your looking at us being.. at best with good coaching.. VT, Michigan State, Penn State during the later years of Joe Pa, Michigan during Lloyd Carr, Bobby Bowden in his later years.. not or very rarely competing for championships.
 

DTP

Section 102
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Messages
9,547
without elite talent your looking at us being.. at best with good coaching.. VT, Michigan State, Penn State during the later years of Joe Pa, Michigan during Lloyd Carr, Bobby Bowden in his later years.. not or very rarely competing for championships.

The talent on the roster right now is better than any of those teams you mentioned.
 

Awsi Dooger

Junior
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
2,674
Players. It's all about elite players, especially with the new format. Previously you might be able to sneak through a regular season with a favorable schedule and then get a nice draw in the bowl game. In our case we had great talent but we also got to play at home several times with the title on the line, which was a surreal advantage. Nowadays with two games on a neutral site you can't fluke anything or dodge anybody.

Coaching can make a difference in pass defense intensity and emphasis. Pass defense is vital to winning a title. That's why Saban was so annoyed at the end of the Clemson game. As he said, they needed to make a play, a sack or similar. One play and that outcome shifts.
 

ageezy

Cane til I Die
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
1,013
without elite talent your looking at us being.. at best with good coaching.. VT, Michigan State, Penn State during the later years of Joe Pa, Michigan during Lloyd Carr, Bobby Bowden in his later years.. not or very rarely competing for championships.

did washington have superior talent or good coaching? same for clemson . . . was their talent superior?

i would say both of those teams have really good coaching. in my opinion the only team with superior talent is bama
 

brock

All-American
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
38,300
On paper who has more talent Clemson or Bama?

Depends on which position. Clemson had better skill talent outside of the running back position. Clemsons dline was a wash between bamas. Bama had the edge at running back and db(Fitzpatrick the best one) linebacker could go to bama but clemsons linebackers aren't slouches
 

Dghustla

Junior
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
3,387
On paper who has more talent Clemson or Bama?

Depends on which position. Clemson had better skill talent outside of the running back position. Clemsons dline was a wash between bamas. Bama had the edge at running back and db(Fitzpatrick the best one) linebacker could go to bama but clemsons linebackers aren't slouches

On paper it was Bama. On paper it's always Bama.
You don't need top 5 classes every year to win NCs. You need at least top 15 classes with the right players who will develop and a really good QB.
 

prinmemo

Junior
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
2,215
Our starting talent is good enough to compete for the playoffs right now. We haven't had good depth. If we add that with this recruiting class then we should compete for the ACC title.

I think we have enough talent on this team to make it to the playoffs if we can build some depth.
 

ageezy

Cane til I Die
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
1,013
Our starting talent is good enough to compete for the playoffs right now. We haven't had good depth. If we add that with this recruiting class then we should compete for the ACC title.

I think we have enough talent on this team to make it to the playoffs if we can build some depth.

coach diaz alluded to this . . . our front line players are legit, especially defense
 
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