Coaches vs Talent

[RohanMotor]

Can talent over come poor couching? For example Coker and the 2001, 2002 teams or Shannon fiasco with MNW crew (****!)....

Love to hear what you guys think....

 

[Dan E. Dangerously]

With the right culture within the program, yes, as you mentioned in 2001. Without that culture, we get what we've gotten just about every year since then.

 

[calinative umstudent]

Not as easily as good/great coaching can overcome mediocre talent.

 

[Gatorhater]

2001 was right after Butch left. Team was loaded beyond belief and still basically Butch's team. One year later, with a team full of first round picks and still some good assistants, it was not enough to overcome Larry. We made the NC game but lost to a team who's big play was a big ox white dude playing qb and running up the middle. It was over by the next year. Coaching had taken its toll.

Can talent overcome what most of us think is wrong with this team? I contend that Ed Reed would not get to play in this defense. He freelanced all the time. Al has no use for that. How many others would we have never heard of. Aggression is not the stuff of our new system, but it was the definition of most great Canes. If Dorsey was a freshman last year, do you think we would have seen him, or just watched Morris limp our season anyway? We have a lot more talent on the team this year and exactly the same staff, so it is a nice controlled experiment.

It was said of Bear Bryant that he could take his players and beat yours, then he could take your players and beat his. Howard is from Bear's coaching tree, so maybe that is why he thought good coaching was all Miami ever needed.

 

[cp7705]

Gator, I don't think that's fair. If an Ed Reed type of player was in the secondary, I think Al would let him do what he was best at. But I don't see that type of range, speed and athleticism in Bush or Jenkins. I see the instincts in Howard though. Judging because of that play he jumped that screen in the UVA game. I am pretty sure if he did not make that INT/TD, he would have gotten yelled at for sure. But I think the cupboards were so bare when RS left, that we needed to get in players, but the best way to be successful was them to be controlled and play within a system. I think this year and further, we are just going to recruit talented players. Once they learn the fundamentals, they'll start to let the leash go and let the sheer instinct and athleticism make plays.

 

[BODESLAM]

Can talent over come poor couching? For example Coker and the 2001, 2002 teams or Shannon fiasco with MNW crew (****!)....

Love to hear what you guys think....

TOUGH ONE....MY 'COUCH' IS PRETTY TALENTED....

FACT IS COKER INHERITED A PORCHE' AND SHANNON WAS LEFT TO DRIVE THE SHORT BUS WITH WHAT WAS LEFT........BOTH WERE HIRED ON A BUSCH BEER / ADMIN BUDGET.....AT LEAST SHANNON TRIED TO REINSTATE SOME TEAM CHEMISTRY BY GOING ALL IN WITH WNW.....BUT ON THE FLIP, (AT THIS POINT) I'D TAKE RANDY & CHUD BACK AS DC AND OC ANY DAY OF THE WEEK....COKER COULDN'T MOTIVATE A GROUP OF RETARDS THRU THE GATES OF DISNEY.....

 

[mianjomar]

If your HC is up to the task you can survive a few assistants that are mediocre. Kehoe produced some significant talent under Johnson/Erickson/Davis but got exposed under later coaches. My biggest concern about Golden is that he is reluctant to make needed changes.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Can talent over come poor couching? For example Coker and the 2001, 2002 teams or Shannon fiasco with MNW crew (****!)....

Love to hear what you guys think....

I think its been proven that the MNW crew weren't really all that talented.

 

[Gatorhater]

Gator, I don't think that's fair. If an Ed Reed type of player was in the secondary, I think Al would let him do what he was best at. But I don't see that type of range, speed and athleticism in Bush or Jenkins. I see the instincts in Howard though. Judging because of that play he jumped that screen in the UVA game. I am pretty sure if he did not make that INT/TD, he would have gotten yelled at for sure. But I think the cupboards were so bare when RS left, that we needed to get in players, but the best way to be successful was them to be controlled and play within a system. I think this year and further, we are just going to recruit talented players. Once they learn the fundamentals, they'll start to let the leash go and let the sheer instinct and athleticism make plays.

You could be right, but Al is a stubborn man who is clearly convinced his way is the right way -- most HCs are. I am fairly sure I heard "freelancing" as a criticism of Howard early on. Maybe if Ed's first couple plays were pick-six types, Al might have put up with him. But Al would have brought pressure on Ed to "buy in" and we might never have found out how great he could be in the right system. The funny thing is that I think Al's system would work best against the type of offense we always had. We had little patience to chip our way down the field and always wanted to score from a distance. We usually we successful but once in a while someone would frustrate us into defeat. The nightmare with psu is an example. We were running all over them but just had to throw as we got close to end zone and bam another pick. I thought our defense was doing that to criminoles for the 1st half last year and it was working BUT Jimbo made adjustments and starting going underneath us and we had no QB to compete. The problem is that most of the teams we face are just fine chipping down the field 5 or 6 yards a play for 500 yards.

The difference between Al and JJ is that JJ abandoned his offense and took on ours and then took advantage of our dna to create an even better defense. Al is just superimposing his entire blueprint on dna that it doesn't fit. Hence, size is more important than speed; order is more important than instincts; keys are more important than aggression. Al is a coach than given the right team, could beat our classic teams ONCE in a lifetime. But I don't think he has a clue as to how to win with OUR team.

 

[JackOAT]

Can talent over come poor couching? For example Coker and the 2001, 2002 teams or Shannon fiasco with MNW crew (****!)....

Love to hear what you guys think....

I think its been proven that the MNW crew weren't really all that talented.

Them not having the work ethic or not being developed properly has nothing to do with talent

 

[rok]

It's still a country club atmosphere over there. We got punked by Louisville and showed no heart. This program is on LIFE SUPPORT.

 

[niner]

Can talent over come poor couching? For example Coker and the 2001, 2002 teams or Shannon fiasco with MNW crew (****!)....

Love to hear what you guys think....

I think its been proven that the MNW crew weren't really all that talented.

Them not having the work ethic or not being developed properly has nothing to do with talent

Take their college coaching aside for a moment. Arent some of them in the NFL getting coached up by NFL coaches? Who has done much from the MNW crew of 08? Which of them has played much?

 

[JackOAT]

Can talent over come poor couching? For example Coker and the 2001, 2002 teams or Shannon fiasco with MNW crew (****!)....

Love to hear what you guys think....

I think its been proven that the MNW crew weren't really all that talented.

Them not having the work ethic or not being developed properly has nothing to do with talent

Take their college coaching aside for a moment. Arent some of them in the NFL getting coached up by NFL coaches? Who has done much from the MNW crew of 08? Which of them has played much?

You purposefully ignored half of my sentence in order to point to the other half, bring it up as your counterpoint in this discussion and then immediately crap on it.

You say they are not talented and then the next sentence you're saying that some of them play in the NFL (which IMO, equals talent considering it's the HIGHEST LEVEL you can achieve in football)

Let me do this again....

THEM NOT HAVING THE WORK ETHIC or not being developed properly has nothing to do with talent

 

[niner]

Can talent over come poor couching? For example Coker and the 2001, 2002 teams or Shannon fiasco with MNW crew (****!)....

Love to hear what you guys think....

I think its been proven that the MNW crew weren't really all that talented.

Them not having the work ethic or not being developed properly has nothing to do with talent

Take their college coaching aside for a moment. Arent some of them in the NFL getting coached up by NFL coaches? Who has done much from the MNW crew of 08? Which of them has played much?

You purposefully ignored half of my sentence in order to point to the other half, bring it up as your counterpoint in this discussion and then immediately crap on it.

You say they are not talented and then the next sentence you're saying that some of them play in the NFL (which IMO, equals talent considering it's the HIGHEST LEVEL you can achieve in football)

Let me do this again....

THEM NOT HAVING THE WORK ETHIC or not being developed properly has nothing to do with talent

No need to get rustled tough guy. No one said they were not talented. The question was pretty simple. I think they still play in the NFL, not actually sure as I don't recall seeing them. Who is left on an active roster? Spence (been injured, he gets a pass), Forston, practive squad still? Maybe he was made active and I didnt see him. Streeter? Aldarius? Thompkins?

They obviously have enough talent to warrant interest (a few of them), but do they have enough to actually play at the next level? As of right now, as a group, it's pretty clear that is a no as of this moment.

 

[JackOAT]

I think its been proven that the MNW crew weren't really all that talented.

Them not having the work ethic or not being developed properly has nothing to do with talent

Take their college coaching aside for a moment. Arent some of them in the NFL getting coached up by NFL coaches? Who has done much from the MNW crew of 08? Which of them has played much?

You purposefully ignored half of my sentence in order to point to the other half, bring it up as your counterpoint in this discussion and then immediately crap on it.

You say they are not talented and then the next sentence you're saying that some of them play in the NFL (which IMO, equals talent considering it's the HIGHEST LEVEL you can achieve in football)

Let me do this again....

THEM NOT HAVING THE WORK ETHIC or not being developed properly has nothing to do with talent

No need to get rustled tough guy. No one said they were not talented. The question was pretty simple. I think they still play in the NFL, not actually sure as I don't recall seeing them. Who is left on an active roster? Spence (been injured, he gets a pass), Forston, practive squad still? Maybe he was made active and I didnt see him. Streeter? Aldarius? Thompkins?

They obviously have enough talent to warrant interest (a few of them), but do they have enough to actually play at the next level? As of right now, as a group, it's pretty clear that is a no as of this moment.

*SMFH* You geniuses have a knack for making me IMMEDIATELY regret inserting myself into any discussion on this board.

 

[Miami82]

Them not having the work ethic or not being developed properly has nothing to do with talent

Take their college coaching aside for a moment. Arent some of them in the NFL getting coached up by NFL coaches? Who has done much from the MNW crew of 08? Which of them has played much?

You purposefully ignored half of my sentence in order to point to the other half, bring it up as your counterpoint in this discussion and then immediately crap on it.

You say they are not talented and then the next sentence you're saying that some of them play in the NFL (which IMO, equals talent considering it's the HIGHEST LEVEL you can achieve in football)

Let me do this again....

THEM NOT HAVING THE WORK ETHIC or not being developed properly has nothing to do with talent

No need to get rustled tough guy. No one said they were not talented. The question was pretty simple. I think they still play in the NFL, not actually sure as I don't recall seeing them. Who is left on an active roster? Spence (been injured, he gets a pass), Forston, practive squad still? Maybe he was made active and I didnt see him. Streeter? Aldarius? Thompkins?

They obviously have enough talent to warrant interest (a few of them), but do they have enough to actually play at the next level? As of right now, as a group, it's pretty clear that is a no as of this moment.

*SMFH* You geniuses have a knack for making me IMMEDIATELY regret inserting myself into any discussion on this board.

LOL, can't fix stupid.

 

[Miami82]

I think its been proven that the MNW crew weren't really all that talented.

Them not having the work ethic or not being developed properly has nothing to do with talent

Take their college coaching aside for a moment. Arent some of them in the NFL getting coached up by NFL coaches? Who has done much from the MNW crew of 08? Which of them has played much?

You purposefully ignored half of my sentence in order to point to the other half, bring it up as your counterpoint in this discussion and then immediately crap on it.

You say they are not talented and then the next sentence you're saying that some of them play in the NFL (which IMO, equals talent considering it's the HIGHEST LEVEL you can achieve in football)

Let me do this again....

THEM NOT HAVING THE WORK ETHIC or not being developed properly has nothing to do with talent

No need to get rustled tough guy. No one said they were not talented. The question was pretty simple. I think they still play in the NFL, not actually sure as I don't recall seeing them. Who is left on an active roster? Spence (been injured, he gets a pass), Forston, practive squad still? Maybe he was made active and I didnt see him. Streeter? Aldarius? Thompkins?

They obviously have enough talent to warrant interest (a few of them), but do they have enough to actually play at the next level? As of right now, as a group, it's pretty clear that is a no as of this moment.

 

[niner]

Them not having the work ethic or not being developed properly has nothing to do with talent

Take their college coaching aside for a moment. Arent some of them in the NFL getting coached up by NFL coaches? Who has done much from the MNW crew of 08? Which of them has played much?

You purposefully ignored half of my sentence in order to point to the other half, bring it up as your counterpoint in this discussion and then immediately crap on it.

You say they are not talented and then the next sentence you're saying that some of them play in the NFL (which IMO, equals talent considering it's the HIGHEST LEVEL you can achieve in football)

Let me do this again....

THEM NOT HAVING THE WORK ETHIC or not being developed properly has nothing to do with talent

No need to get rustled tough guy. No one said they were not talented. The question was pretty simple. I think they still play in the NFL, not actually sure as I don't recall seeing them. Who is left on an active roster? Spence (been injured, he gets a pass), Forston, practive squad still? Maybe he was made active and I didnt see him. Streeter? Aldarius? Thompkins?

They obviously have enough talent to warrant interest (a few of them), but do they have enough to actually play at the next level? As of right now, as a group, it's pretty clear that is a no as of this moment.

*SMFH* You geniuses have a knack for making me IMMEDIATELY regret inserting myself into any discussion on this board.

So no response. Cool, gotcha.

Hi princess, you know who you are....

 

[Kevin]

Another example of mediocre coaching being able to succeed look at Chizik at Auburn. ****, they won a national championship with a turrible coach.

 

[umhurricane2511]

We've had this exact thread during every season/offseason since 2004