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Coaching Coach Pros and Cons

IcemanArcade

IcemanArcade

Go Canes
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
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S/O to Ro for making this great point on twitter, every week we have a new coach of the week. Different threads being made each day (including this) coaching polls, threads for slurpers etc. I think it stands to say, there isn’t a perfect head coaching candidate. No coach is the clear and logical choice and each week a coach is either losing and “getting exposed”, or regressed to a mediocre record than the year before or have been fired. I think this can be a good space to discuss pros and cons behind each coach and fully stand behind it. No need to disagree or call out each other. I’m curious to hear the reasoning behind each coach and at the very least one or more objective cons for your coach of choice. Lastly, in football usually certainty carries inherent value over uncertainty. Not to say that someone like Joe Brady can’t come here and be the next Lincoln Riley but usually the coach with the least amount of question marks tend to have a high success rate.

 
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To me my top 3 as of right now

Mario C.

Pros

  • Previous HC experience
  • Alumni who understands the history of Miami and it’s tenure as a blue blood school. He’s about a deep as you can get. Best chance of an elite HC coming here.
  • Elite in Recruitment. #1 recruiter for Alabama all 4 years he was there. Was ranked as best recruiter in nation in 2015 by 247 sports.
  • Will place proper staff to develop and recruit. Will place emphasis on recruiting SFL. Familiar ties with SFL region.
  • O-line and trenches would improve immensely. His O-line at Bama Won Joe Moore Award in 2015.
  • 2 pac 12 championships. (Can get us to ACC championship on a year to year basis)
  • Can win at least 9 games in the ACC, best case scenario Mario is 13+ wins a season
  • Top 10 classes yearly. Even without Nike bags it’s not really out of question considering Richt and Manny both got us top 10 at least once in their careers and that’s without NIL deals.
  • Won a NC as an O-line coach with Bama in 2015**** a lot of coaches have never even coached on a NC contending team.
  • Team will be physical
  • Likely done with Miami as last stop, can be a coach who’s here for 10+ years.
Cons

  • Hard sell for Cristobal, I don’t believe he’ll leave unless family truly wants to. He’s in a good situation, and set up to win multiple pac 12 championships, unless urban is hired at USC
  • Game management question marks
  • Questionable losses against teams he shouldn’t have loss too.
  • Teams usually start off strong. But always blow a game or two towards the end of the season
  • $ of buyout
  • Will need BOT to commit to providing a quality staff, or else majority of his Pros are washed.
  • Can he really be a coach to get us in the CFP and contend with Bama, Clemson or OSU?
  • If he fails, we’re stuck with him long term, thanks to Manny buyout. Will have to ride with him at least 5 seasons.


Luke Fickell

Pros

  • Came to Cincinnati, and historically turned around that program within a year. Won 11 games back to back years (2018,2019) won 9 last year. Team is 4-0 this year.
  • Coaches the **** out of his team, even when their team started off slow against UCF last year. He managed to outscore them in the final 3 quarters. They overcame penalties and didn’t turn the ball over
  • DC for OSU during their run of NC appearances from 2011-2016
  • Recruited well during OSU, have been either Primary or Secondary recruiter for multiple 4 and 5 star players (including one of the Bosa brothers)
  • Built a solid pipeline in GA and Texas. We can use more players from those states.
  • Can get the most of his players (Cincinnati is not no where near UGA blue chip ratio but gave them a run for their money) recently beat ND.
  • Pretty affordable, makes north of $3 million.
Cons

  • Don’t see why he would leave Cincinnati to come to here, we’re arguably in a worst state than when he first come to Cincinnati.
  • I think if Urban turns them down he’s USCs to lose, their board is apparently sold on him.
  • Ohio guy. Played college ball there. Culturally I’m not sure he’s a “Miami guy”
  • HUGE question mark in terms of recruiting SFL.*** Only 4 recruits from Florida and only 3 were from South Florida, during his tenure at OSU. Majority of his top recruits that he landed were from the Mid west/North East area. Or Texas
  • Concerned if he will place proper staff to recruit.
  • Don’t want another AL Golden esque philosophy of prioritizing OOS recruits over South Florida. Or neglecting SFL schools.


Lane Kiffen

Pros

  • Offensive genius. Offense improves from day 1. We would put up points, no question marks there. We would likely go from 42nd ranked offense to top 10. Imagine how he would scheme and use Knighton and Chaney. He would probably use B.smith like he used Elijah Moore, (who would go on to have an All American season) . Arroyo would eat, Romello would eat, whole offense would eat.
  • Simple Math, outscore your ACC opponents = Likely win games. Would probably score 40 a game in this conference.
  • Brings excitement, headline drawer kind of guy. Kiffen at the U, ESPN would eat this sh- up. Next to Mario C he would Fill up seats.
  • Kiffen is comfortable with South Florida and it’s easier to recruit here than Ole miss. Or at least recruit Florida talent.
  • As long as he’s in the SEC west, don’t expect him to overachieve. He will leave, Bama still runs that division.
  • Solid recruiter.
Cons

  • BOT won’t see him as an ideal candidate due to past baggage and his reputation .
  • Kiffin has never fielded a good defense, Opponents averaged a 38 ppg against ole miss defense last year🤮
  • Offensive guru but too many “shootouts”
  • Kiffin likely leaves if he does find success with 3-4 years. And we’re back to looking for a HC
  • Not sure he’s “the guy” to lead us back to NC contention. But still unsure if he can assure us the coastal every year at the very least.
 
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Got lazy at the end but Stoops would be my 4th, my only con with him is that he wouldn’t turn us around in a year or two. Would be slow grind
Freeze is 5th for me and ideally 1B but with his past baggage, he likely doesn’t get considered.
 
Power 5 HC experience or NFL experience. Significant experience. Joe Brady because of his experience at LSU and now with the Panthers is the only young guy i would go after. Hugh Freeze, Cristobal, Schiano are the top of my list. And a football only AD or fire Blake. Nothing is certain but you raise your floor with certain coaches.
 
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OP, please update your pros and cons now that the Urban video is out. Would love to see the cons….
 
IcemanArcade said:
To me my top 3 as of right now

Mario C.

Pros

  • Previous HC experience
  • Alumni who understands the history of Miami and it’s tenure as a blue blood school. He’s about a deep as you can get. Best chance of an elite HC coming here.
  • Elite in Recruitment. #1 recruiter for Alabama all 4 years he was there. Was ranked as best recruiter in nation in 2015 by 247 sports.
  • Will place proper staff to develop and recruit. Will place emphasis on recruiting SFL. Familiar ties with SFL region.
  • O-line and trenches would improve immensely. His O-line at Bama Won Joe Moore Award in 2015.
  • 2 pac 12 championships. (Can get us to ACC championship on a year to year basis)
  • Can win at least 9 games in the ACC, best case scenario Mario is 13+ wins a season
  • Top 10 classes yearly. Even without Nike bags it’s not really out of question considering Richt and Manny both got us top 10 at least once in their careers and that’s without NIL deals.
  • Won a NC as an O-line coach with Bama in 2015**** a lot of coaches have never even coached on a NC contending team.
  • Team will be physical
  • Likely done with Miami as last stop, can be a coach who’s here for 10+ years.
Cons

  • Hard sell for Cristobal, I don’t believe he’ll leave unless family truly wants to. He’s in a good situation, and set up to win multiple pac 12 championships, unless urban is hired at USC
  • Game management question marks
  • Questionable losses against teams he shouldn’t have loss too.
  • Teams usually start off strong. But always blow a game or two towards the end of the season
  • $ of buyout
  • Will need BOT to commit to providing a quality staff, or else majority of his Pros are washed.
  • Can he really be a coach to get us in the CFP and contend with Bama, Clemson or OSU?
  • If he fails, we’re stuck with him long term, thanks to Manny buyout. Will have to ride with him at least 5 seasons.


Luke Fickell

Pros

  • Came to Cincinnati, and historically turned around that program within a year. Won 11 games back to back years (2018,2019) won 9 last year. Team is 4-0 this year.
  • Coaches the **** out of his team, even when their team started off slow against UCF last year. He managed to outscore them in the final 3 quarters. They overcame penalties and didn’t turn the ball over
  • DC for OSU during their run of NC appearances from 2011-2016
  • Recruited well during OSU, have been either Primary or Secondary recruiter for multiple 4 and 5 star players (including one of the Bosa brothers)
  • Built a solid pipeline in GA and Texas. We can use more players from those states.
  • Can get the most of his players (Cincinnati is not no where near UGA blue chip ratio but gave them a run for their money) recently beat ND.
  • Pretty affordable, makes north of $3 million.
Cons

  • Don’t see why he would leave Cincinnati to come to here, we’re arguably in a worst state than when he first come to Cincinnati.
  • I think if Urban turns them down he’s USCs to lose, their board is apparently sold on him.
  • Ohio guy. Played college ball there. Culturally I’m not sure he’s a “Miami guy”
  • HUGE question mark in terms of recruiting SFL.*** Only 4 recruits from Florida and only 3 were from South Florida, during his tenure at OSU. Majority of his top recruits that he landed were from the Mid west/North East area. Or Texas
  • Concerned if he will place proper staff to recruit.
  • Don’t want another AL Golden esque philosophy of prioritizing OOS recruits over South Florida. Or neglecting SFL schools.


Lane Kiffen

Pros

  • Offensive genius. Offense improves from day 1. We would put up points, no question marks there. We would likely go from 42nd ranked offense to top 10. Imagine how he would scheme and use Knighton and Chaney. He would probably use B.smith like he used Elijah Moore, (who would go on to have an All American season) . Arroyo would eat, Romello would eat, whole offense would eat.
  • Simple Math, outscore your ACC opponents = Likely win games. Would probably score 40 a game in this conference.
  • Brings excitement, headline drawer kind of guy. Kiffen at the U, ESPN would eat this sh- up. Next to Mario C he would Fill up seats.
  • Kiffen is comfortable with South Florida and it’s easier to recruit here than Ole miss. Or at least recruit Florida talent.
  • As long as he’s in the SEC west, don’t expect him to overachieve. He will leave, Bama still runs that division.
  • Solid recruiter.
Cons

  • BOT won’t see him as an ideal candidate due to past baggage and his reputation .
  • Kiffin has never fielded a good defense, Opponents averaged a 38 ppg against ole miss defense last year🤮
  • Offensive guru but too many “shootouts”
  • Kiffin likely leaves if he does find success with 3-4 years. And we’re back to looking for a HC
  • Not sure he’s “the guy” to lead us back to NC contention. But still unsure if he can assure us the coastal every year at the very least.
Click to expand...

Where would Kiffin go if he succeeded here?

I don’t think a NFL team touches him again
 
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ajkreider said:
Herman

Pros:

No buyout after this year.
No current HC job
Offensive success as a coordinator (Ohio St)
G5 HC success (Houston)
P5 experience (Texas)
Great recruiting track record - pipeline to TX

Cons:

Mediocre record at Texas
Bit of an ***, supposedly
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Offensive success not only as a coordinator, but also as a head coach. Last year at Texas (nationally):

- 7th in scoring offense
- 18th in yards/play
- 17th in yards/rush
- 16th in passer rating
- 9th in 30+ yard plays
- took a mediocre QB in San Ehlinger and made him look pretty good

He obviously needed to fix their defense, but I’ll take that offense in a heartbeat.
 
IcemanArcade said:
Got lazy at the end but Stoops would be my 4th, my only con with him is that he wouldn’t turn us around in a year or two. Would be slow grind
Freeze is 5th for me and ideally 1B but with his past baggage, he likely doesn’t get considered.
Click to expand...
No one we hire is turning it around in two years. The culture issues run deep.
 
ajkreider said:
Herman

Pros:

No buyout after this year.
No current HC job
Offensive success as a coordinator (Ohio St)
G5 HC success (Houston)
P5 experience (Texas)
Great recruiting track record - pipeline to TX

Cons:

Mediocre record at Texas
Bit of an ***, supposedly
Click to expand...
Tom Herman would blend well here!!
I can only wish and pray a whole lot for him.

Fickell would be my 2 nd pick.
 
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TheEye said:
No one we hire is turning it around in two years. The culture issues run deep.
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As amazing of what a job he’s doing at UK. First several seasons at UK were pretty mediocre in terms of W-L record. Definitely hard to recruit at a basketball school, but it took a few 5-7 and 7-6 seasons to finally reach 10 wins in year 6. Even if Miami is too good to win 5 games his first year. I don’t see Miami making that next jump until majority of his upperclassman are developed. So year 4 at earliest. Miami fans don’t have crazy patience for that. Though I wouldn’t mind it.
 
IcemanArcade said:
As amazing of what a job he’s doing at UK. First several seasons at UK were pretty mediocre in terms of W-L record. Definitely hard to recruit at a basketball school, but it took a few 5-7 and 7-6 seasons to finally reach 10 wins in year 6. Even if Miami is too good to win 5 games his first year. I don’t see Miami making that next jump until majority of his upperclassman are developed. So year 4 at earliest. Miami fans don’t have crazy patience for that. Though I wouldn’t mind it.
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One thing to keep in mind is strength of schedule. I wouldn't expect a good coach to fall far below a 7 win season at Miami being in the Coastal.
Also, Clemson was a basketball school about a decade ago.

Miami needs a coach who can educate and discipline its players and has a good scheme to outcoach opposing schools. No more Sam Shields being surprised in the NFL about "studying tape."

Most importantly it needs a culture in the administration that understands how to COMPETE in athletics, not just having a program that technically fields a team.
 
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After Urban gets canned this year fly him down to Coral gables …Mario ain’t won ****t I don’t get the hype around him
 
TheEye said:
No one we hire is turning it around in two years. The culture issues run deep.
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Turning it around and winning the Coastal and contending for the ACC? Absolutely. Culture can be fixed in 2 years and you can use the portal successfully.
 
Pentagon Cane said:
Turning it around and winning the Coastal and contending for the ACC? Absolutely. Culture can be fixed in 2 years and you can use the portal successfully.
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It needs to start at the top. A new administration that learns from all of the past mistakes for the last 20 years. The culture=Admins, coaches, players, fans. It may seem like an easy fix, but the problem runs REAL deep.
 
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