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Clemson Wasnt built overnight

caneaddict said:
9-5
6-7
10-4 (thrashed by WV 70-33 in OB)

FSU's bridesmaid for 2 years..

and then it was on...

would this fanbase, its fake fanbase, the local lynchmob media, and the toxicity that builds here after 2-3 years, and how that affects recruiting, ever support a rebuild like this?

who are gonna be our Taj Boyds, Sammy Watkins, CJ Spillers, etc.. who buy into a vision and are developed

Not so sure, the only hope is the culture argument, and building one that people continue to buy into in spite of some not so great results
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What’s your point? You think with more fan patience, Coker, Shannon, Golden or Richt would have become Dabo?
 
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monkey1371 said:
There are 3 types of hires in college football with 3 different time tables.

The Build Coach - Taking a traditional low expectations program and build it (Snyder KSU, Schiano Rutgers)
The Don't mess up Coach - Taking over for a winning program where coach left on his own (Coker, Erickson, Solich, Miles)
The Rebuild Coach - Taking over for a fired HC at a program that expects to win (about 25 programs like that) Dabo

Outside of Dabo, how many rebuild coaches would you say finished below .500 in year 2 and were considered successful hires?

Here is the Year 2 record of coaches you would call successful hires as rebuild coaches I could think of....

Carroll USC - 11-2
Brown Texas - 9-5
Meyer UF - 13-1
Richt UGA - 13-1
Saban LSU - 10-3
Saban Bama - 12-2
Stoops OU - 13-0
Kirby UGA - 13-2
Kelly ND - 8-5
Fisher FSU - 9-4
Tressell OSU - 13-0
Holtz ND - 8-4
Harbaugh MICH - 10-3

Do you include
Orgeron LSU? 9-4 or 10-3 depending if you include the 6-2 interim year
Chizik AUB 14-0 National title

Chris Peteresen at Washington who went 8-6, 7-6 his first 2 years (but was a proven commodity, not a first time HC like Dabo) is the most similar.

Dabo is a true outlier, in those situations when you hire the right guy, he usually makes chicken salad out of chicken **** by year 2.

Considering the last 30-40 years you can't find any other successful rebuild guy take a major step back from year 1 like Dabo, most fanbases would have been pretty riled up at the end of year 2. Not just Miami.
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All those coaches you named took over brand name programs. Aside from pederson. Clemson prior to dabo getting there had no blue print on how to succeed there. But I agree dabo is a outlier. As far as us, we are so far removed from being a consistent winner that I believe it’s gonna take at least 2 years for Diaz to get the culture and roster to have this thing rolling. Therefore I think we are in a similar state of “rebuild” as dabo was. He does inherit a good talent base at the skill spots . Good enough to win the costal year 1 imo. But in order to compete nationally..we gonna have to get the QB room improved next cycle and fix the online. I like the prospects we have up front but only games can tell if they can play
 
Said this in another thread,

Clemsons admin deserves alot of credit. To me, that entire school had a part to play in that NC. From committing to having quality candidates and building upon successful seasons. Then they got their program changing player (dashaun watson) and continued to build!

It took more time than Bama but I'm sure that doesnt take away from the win. Really impressed by the entire school.

Not sure if we will ever have that type of commitment in coral gables. We cant even get a stadium lol
 
305to954 said:
All those coaches you named took over brand name programs. Aside from pederson. Clemson prior to dabo getting there had no blue print on how to succeed there. But I agree dabo is a outlier. As far as us, we are so far removed from being a consistent winner that I believe it’s gonna take at least 2 years for Diaz to get the culture and roster to have this thing rolling. Therefore I think we are in a similar state of “rebuild” as dabo was. He does inherit a good talent base at the skill spots . Good enough to win the costal year 1 imo. But in order to compete nationally..we gonna have to get the QB room improved next cycle and fix the online. I like the prospects we have up front but only games can tell if they can play
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As far as Clemson I have to disagree, Clemson was a brand name. 1980's they were a top program under Danny Ford, they won a national title.
1981 Clemson 12–0 (National Champions)
1982 Clemson 9–1–1
1983 Clemson 9–1–1
1984 Clemson 7–4
1985 Clemson 6–6
1986 Clemson 8–2–2
1987 Clemson 10–2
1988 Clemson 10–2
1989 Clemson 10–2

Their pedigree was no different than UGA, LSU, Auburn. Remember UGA went 17 years after Herschel Walker without a Top 10 finish before Richt went 13-1. Same with mighty Texas that went from 1983 to Mack Browns 4th year 2001. We knocked the only decent Texas team for 18 years from #3 to outside the top 10 with the 46-3 Cotton Bowl. LSU and Auburn are 2000's successful teams.

As far as Diaz......Every coach gets a pass year 1. Saban lost to ULM at Bama year 1. Stoops, Carroll, Tressell, Meyer, Saban all only won between 6-8 games.

This program based upon the weak division they play in, the simple fact that they play 9-10 teams every year that they out recruit by at least 10 spots on average(excluding this current year), should win 10+ games every year and the coastal at least 4 out of 5 years. Yes the occasional year when you get Clemson and a Good FSU as your cross-over games and the cycle is in a rebuild you might go 10-2 and not win the coastal. But you should also have the reverse, when the classes line up and you are senior heavy they should be 11-1 and challenging for a playoff spot and clemson for the ACC title.
 
monkey1371 said:
As far as Clemson I have to disagree, Clemson was a brand name. 1980's they were a top program under Danny Ford, they won a national title.
1981 Clemson 12–0 (National Champions)
1982 Clemson 9–1–1
1983 Clemson 9–1–1
1984 Clemson 7–4
1985 Clemson 6–6
1986 Clemson 8–2–2
1987 Clemson 10–2
1988 Clemson 10–2
1989 Clemson 10–2

Their pedigree was no different than UGA, LSU, Auburn. Remember UGA went 17 years after Herschel Walker without a Top 10 finish before Richt went 13-1. Same with mighty Texas that went from 1983 to Mack Browns 4th year 2001. We knocked the only decent Texas team for 18 years from #3 to outside the top 10 with the 46-3 Cotton Bowl. LSU and Auburn are 2000's successful teams.

As far as Diaz......Every coach gets a pass year 1. Saban lost to ULM at Bama year 1. Stoops, Carroll, Tressell, Meyer, Saban all only won between 6-8 games.

This program based upon the weak division they play in, the simple fact that they play 9-10 teams every year that they out recruit by at least 10 spots on average(excluding this current year), should win 10+ games every year and the coastal at least 4 out of 5 years. Yes the occasional year when you get Clemson and a Good FSU as your cross-over games and the cycle is in a rebuild you might go 10-2 and not win the coastal. But you should also have the reverse, when the classes line up and you are senior heavy they should be 11-1 and challenging for a playoff spot and clemson for the ACC title.
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UMs 1981 Team would have waxed 81 Clemson......make no mistake about it......
 
To be honest it’s a very intriguing phenomenon what’s happening down there in Clemson. Saying “they throw bags” is not only lazy, but seems very uninformed. A lot of the Clemson staff or enough of the good ones are Alumi. They players continue to say pharaphrase “In addition to jug football, they care about me” more or less. It’s very cultish in a sense everyone seems to have the feeling they have everything they will ever want or need in Clemson. Where Clemson is, it’s not expensive compared to Miami. Slower pace, more “down home cookn” feel than Metropolitan neon lightism which is Miami. In an age where personal brands trump team mentality, they’ve created an outlier with their outlier coach. Aside from money, it just seems they built a program with a person that fits the program and then put in place method of how to not only have the players buy in but it seems everyone has a hive mentality once they start drinking the juice...
 
ZuCrew said:
To be honest it’s a very intriguing phenomenon what’s happening down there in Clemson. Saying “they throw bags” is not only lazy, but seems very uninformed. A lot of the Clemson staff or enough of the good ones are Alumi. They players continue to say pharaphrase “In addition to jug football, they care about me” more or less. It’s very cultish in a sense everyone seems to have the feeling they have everything they will ever want or need in Clemson. Where Clemson is, it’s not expensive compared to Miami. Slower pace, more “down home cookn” feel than Metropolitan neon lightism which is Miami. In an age where personal brands trump team mentality, they’ve created an outlier with their outlier coach. Aside from money, it just seems they built a program with a person that fits the program and then put in place method of how to not only have the players buy in but it seems everyone has a hive mentality once they start drinking the juice...
Click to expand...
True.............but Dabo plays the role of the "ole county , downhome Coach", but who knows what lurks behind closed doors.....
One could see some of this on the sidelines when he railed at players on Defense when Jeudy scored....the other thing (and it is a major factor) is that money is not a factor down there. Seems to be plenty of it flowing around the football program.
Google their IPF and see......multiple bags in multiple states I will not even mention, but it takes at least 2-3 years for bags to pay off, as they build depth.....much more than meets the eye...with Dabo and that program.
 
ZuCrew said:
To be honest it’s a very intriguing phenomenon what’s happening down there in Clemson. Saying “they throw bags” is not only lazy, but seems very uninformed. A lot of the Clemson staff or enough of the good ones are Alumi. They players continue to say pharaphrase “In addition to jug football, they care about me” more or less. It’s very cultish in a sense everyone seems to have the feeling they have everything they will ever want or need in Clemson. Where Clemson is, it’s not expensive compared to Miami. Slower pace, more “down home cookn” feel than Metropolitan neon lightism which is Miami. In an age where personal brands trump team mentality, they’ve created an outlier with their outlier coach. Aside from money, it just seems they built a program with a person that fits the program and then put in place method of how to not only have the players buy in but it seems everyone has a hive mentality once they start drinking the juice...
Click to expand...

It’s a lot more of this than the bags. The bags help, and those insurance policies help keep kids in the program. But the bottom line is they have invested a ton into the program, their players are taken care of, the atmosphere is great, it’s got the small town big man on campus thing going but not as racist as the Deep South. Plus most of the north and South Carolina teams are underperformers so they can clean up in recruiting two decent states, and cherry pick Florida and Georgia. Finally Dabo gets it, he’s a dude that would be successful doing most anything, I think a lot of his schticht is fake but who cares it works and the kids buy in, they will run through a wall for the dude and that’s all you can ask for.
 
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canesdogo said:
True.............but Dabo plays the role of the "ole county , downhome Coach", but who knows what lurks behind closed doors.....
One could see some of this on the sidelines when he railed at players on Defense when Jeudy scored....the other thing (and it is a major factor) is that money is not a factor down there. Seems to be plenty of it flowing around the football program.
Google their IPF and see......multiple bags in multiple states I will not even mention, but it takes at least 2-3 years for bags to pay off, as they build depth.....much more than meets the eye...with Dabo and that program.
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree. I think Dabo has the greatest shtik going right now. He’s cut from the same cloth as Saban, and Meyer, a ruthless winner. It’s just his application to it all it what I’m looking at.
 
ehicks said:
It’s a lot more of this than the bags. The bags help, and those insurance policies help keep kids in the program. But the bottom line is they have invested a ton into the program, their players are taken care of, the atmosphere is great, it’s got the small town big man on campus thing going but not as racist as the Deep South. Plus most of the north and South Carolina teams are underperformers so they can clean up in recruiting two decent states, and cherry pick Florida and Georgia. Finally Dabo gets it, he’s a dude that would be successful doing most anything, I think a lot of his schticht is fake but who cares it works and the kids buy in, they will run through a wall for the dude and that’s all you can ask for.
Click to expand...

Boom. Couldn’t have said it any better.
 
ehicks said:
It’s a lot more of this than the bags. The bags help, and those insurance policies help keep kids in the program. But the bottom line is they have invested a ton into the program, their players are taken care of, the atmosphere is great, it’s got the small town big man on campus thing going but not as racist as the Deep South. Plus most of the north and South Carolina teams are underperformers so they can clean up in recruiting two decent states, and cherry pick Florida and Georgia. Finally Dabo gets it, he’s a dude that would be successful doing most anything, I think a lot of his schticht is fake but who cares it works and the kids buy in, they will run through a wall for the dude and that’s all you can ask for.
Click to expand...
"Not as Racist: The Clemson University Story".

What if I told you there was a school in the South that wasn't quite as racist as the other schools in the South? I can see it now on ESPN 30 for 30.
 
ZuCrew said:
I absolutely agree. I think Dabo has the greatest shtik going right now. He’s cut from the same cloth as Saban, and Meyer, a ruthless winner. It’s just his application to it all it what I’m looking at.
Click to expand...

Just thought of something. What it reminds me of is the movie “The Firm” with Tom Cruise. Basics premise is a young hotshot lawyer gets invited to become part of this law firm in ole quaint Mulberry type in the south where they leave their doors unlocked at night. His wife loves it, and everyone is nice the whole warm bit. Very unassuming but the Firm makes BIG MONEY. How? these Quaker Oates looking dudes are mob lawyers. Cuthroat and ruthless.
 
caneaddict said:
9-5
6-7
10-4 (thrashed by WV 70-33 in OB)

FSU's bridesmaid for 2 years..

and then it was on...

would this fanbase, its fake fanbase, the local lynchmob media, and the toxicity that builds here after 2-3 years, and how that affects recruiting, ever support a rebuild like this?

who are gonna be our Taj Boyds, Sammy Watkins, CJ Spillers, etc.. who buy into a vision and are developed

Not so sure, the only hope is the culture argument, and building one that people continue to buy into in spite of some not so great results
Click to expand...
Great pints!
 
caneaddict said:
9-5
6-7
10-4 (thrashed by WV 70-33 in OB)

FSU's bridesmaid for 2 years..

and then it was on...

would this fanbase, its fake fanbase, the local lynchmob media, and the toxicity that builds here after 2-3 years, and how that affects recruiting, ever support a rebuild like this?

who are gonna be our Taj Boyds, Sammy Watkins, CJ Spillers, etc.. who buy into a vision and are developed

Not so sure, the only hope is the culture argument, and building one that people continue to buy into in spite of some not so great results
Click to expand...

Not this board, never would tolerate this rebuild timeline. Heck, they would have wanted Jimmy Johnson fired the year after the 1st NC with his 8-5 first season. Schools that change coaches every 3-4 years get mired in mediocrity. Let’s hope Manny has a fair shot with 4-5 years.
 
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caneaddict said:
9-5
6-7
10-4 (thrashed by WV 70-33 in OB)

FSU's bridesmaid for 2 years..

and then it was on...

would this fanbase, its fake fanbase, the local lynchmob media, and the toxicity that builds here after 2-3 years, and how that affects recruiting, ever support a rebuild like this?

who are gonna be our Taj Boyds, Sammy Watkins, CJ Spillers, etc.. who buy into a vision and are developed

Not so sure, the only hope is the culture argument, and building one that people continue to buy into in spite of some not so great results
Click to expand...
I think Dabo fired his DC that same night right after the Orange Bowl game.
 
caneaddict said:
9-5
6-7
10-4 (thrashed by WV 70-33 in OB)

FSU's bridesmaid for 2 years..

and then it was on...

would this fanbase, its fake fanbase, the local lynchmob media, and the toxicity that builds here after 2-3 years, and how that affects recruiting, ever support a rebuild like this?

who are gonna be our Taj Boyds, Sammy Watkins, CJ Spillers, etc.. who buy into a vision and are developed

Not so sure, the only hope is the culture argument, and building one that people continue to buy into in spite of some not so great results
Click to expand...

Oh the irony in the thread title and the bolded.
 
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