Chad Thomas Combine

[BoxingRobes]

Calais was notoriously lazy in his final season at UM. Essentially gave up after the Oklahoma game. Never really was into the gym. From what I recall, didn't prep incredibly hard leading into the combine. He went from a legit Top 5 pick at the start of the season to drafted much later than he should have been based on talent alone. His athletic profile post-career was that of a 34 end, which he played until he got to Jacksonville. He had a HORRENDOUS 3Cone time which pretty much slotted him into a 34 end or DT role.

Calais is an exception to the rule type of player, not someone I would comp anyone to. 99/100 Calais Campbell types are gone from the NFL before their first contract is up. Look at Marquise Hill (sans dying young) for a comp of what becomes of most Calais types.

 

[KrazyCane]

2nd round grade projection already before pro day. You fcks smoking rocks if u think he ain't going in the 1st.

 

[Rellyrell]

My co-worker and I was just talking about how overrated some of these things in the combine are. Between the combines, the Rivals, 247, ESPN rankings, it's getting us caught up in numbers vs. seeing who are football players vs. short and t-shirt guys.

If Jerry Rice or Emmitt Smith were apart of these combines, they would be shot to ****.

Notice this point that was made by Yaworsky regarding Emmitt Smith:
"Smith never ran better than a 4.5 40-yard dash, but it was his ability to change direction on a dime without losing speed that made him so special. Football isn't played on a straight line and that's why it's not a given that a 4.3 40-yard dash will translate to great rushing numbers."

Bill Walsh put his rep on the line to draft a WR from a small school that ran a 4.71 in the 40, yet notice his response:
"I don't see a 4.71 guy, I see a guy who catches everything and is always open."

When I see Chad on the field, I see a guy w/ great closing speed who was always in the back field. I see a guy who was held A LOT, which will be called at the next level. I see a guy who can hold the edge or rush the QB.

The combine got people twisted. Now, don't get me wrong, there's a still good amount of players who show up to the combine that are both work out warriors and football players that live up to their billing. But I no longer just look at what guys put up at the combine.

I remember when Terrell Suggs was looking slow af, and he said, "I got game speed, that's all teams need to know." T Sizzle is HOF bound. Tom Brady, Jordan Howard, Adalius Thomas, TJ Houshmandzadeh, Kyle Williams, Marques Colston off the top of my head...all drafted late, none really impressed at the combine and they all became very successful in the NFL b/c they could play the game of football.

I miss the good ole days of great evaluation vs. relying upon lazy stats. That's why I hold coaches like Jimmy, Butch, Walsh, Cowerd, Belichick, Shula in high esteem.

Just b/c they are a 4star/5star guy or just b/c they run a 4.22 in the 40, jump 11 feet doesn't mean they'll be more productive than the guy who's a 3star or the guy who runs a 4.9 in the 40 or jump 10 feet. The question is, can this guy play football and is he coach-able?

 

[gogeta4]

The problem with the Campbell/Thomas comparison is it's only looking at combine numbers, where both were just average. But on field production, there's a huge gap:

Campbell (3 Years) - 83 tackles, 39 for a loss, 19.5 sacks
Thomas (4 years) - 51 tackles, 26 for a loss, 10 sacks

Thomas has been good with flashes of greatness, while Campbell's production was on a different level.

I feel like after the combine, the teams that like him before probably still do. And the teams that didn't or were on the fence about him, weren't given any reason to like him. Just kind of stayed even.

2 out of the 4 years. chad was asked to two gap..In a system that only Muhammad Wilkerson has ever been productive. Clais played for a dl coach that was better than Kul at some point in hi sum career

 

[Pixelated bukake]

My co-worker and I was just talking about how overrated some of these things in the combine are. Between the combines, the Rivals, 247, ESPN rankings, it's getting us caught up in numbers vs. seeing who are football players vs. short and t-shirt guys.

If Jerry Rice or Emmitt Smith were apart of these combines, they would be shot to ****.

Notice this point that was made by Yaworsky regarding Emmitt Smith:
"Smith never ran better than a 4.5 40-yard dash, but it was his ability to change direction on a dime without losing speed that made him so special. Football isn't played on a straight line and that's why it's not a given that a 4.3 40-yard dash will translate to great rushing numbers."

Bill Walsh put his rep on the line to draft a WR from a small school that ran a 4.71 in the 40, yet notice his response:
"I don't see a 4.71 guy, I see a guy who catches everything and is always open."

When I see Chad on the field, I see a guy w/ great closing speed who was always in the back field. I see a guy who was held A LOT, which will be called at the next level. I see a guy who can hold the edge or rush the QB.

The combine got people twisted. Now, don't get me wrong, there's a still good amount of players who show up to the combine that are both work out warriors and football players that live up to their billing. But I no longer just look at what guys put up at the combine.

I remember when Terrell Suggs was looking slow af, and he said, "I got game speed, that's all teams need to know." T Sizzle is HOF bound. Tom Brady, Jordan Howard, Adalius Thomas, TJ Houshmandzadeh, Kyle Williams, Marques Colston off the top of my head...all drafted late, none really impressed at the combine and they all became very successful in the NFL b/c they could play the game of football.

I miss the good ole days of great evaluation vs. relying upon lazy stats. That's why I hold coaches like Jimmy, Butch, Walsh, Cowerd, Belichick, Shula in high esteem. Just b/c they are a 4star/5star guy or just b/c they run a 4.22 in the 40, jump 11 feet doesn't mean they'll be more productive then the guy who's a 3star or the guy who runs a 4.9 in the 40 or jump 10 feet. The question is, can this guy play football and is he coach-able?

My co-worker and I was just talking about how overrated some of these things in the combine are. Between the combines, the Rivals, 247, ESPN rankings, it's getting us caught up in numbers vs. seeing who are football players vs. short and t-shirt guys.

If Jerry Rice or Emmitt Smith were apart of these combines, they would be shot to ****.

Notice this point that was made by Yaworsky regarding Emmitt Smith:
"Smith never ran better than a 4.5 40-yard dash, but it was his ability to change direction on a dime without losing speed that made him so special. Football isn't played on a straight line and that's why it's not a given that a 4.3 40-yard dash will translate to great rushing numbers."

Bill Walsh put his rep on the line to draft a WR from a small school that ran a 4.71 in the 40, yet notice his response:
"I don't see a 4.71 guy, I see a guy who catches everything and is always open."

When I see Chad on the field, I see a guy w/ great closing speed who was always in the back field. I see a guy who was held A LOT, which will be called at the next level. I see a guy who can hold the edge or rush the QB.

The combine got people twisted. Now, don't get me wrong, there's a still good amount of players who show up to the combine that are both work out warriors and football players that live up to their billing. But I no longer just look at what guys put up at the combine.

I remember when Terrell Suggs was looking slow af, and he said, "I got game speed, that's all teams need to know." T Sizzle is HOF bound. Tom Brady, Jordan Howard, Adalius Thomas, TJ Houshmandzadeh, Kyle Williams, Marques Colston off the top of my head...all drafted late, none really impressed at the combine and they all became very successful in the NFL b/c they could play the game of football.

I miss the good ole days of great evaluation vs. relying upon lazy stats. That's why I hold coaches like Jimmy, Butch, Walsh, Cowerd, Belichick, Shula in high esteem. Just b/c they are a 4star/5star guy or just b/c they run a 4.22 in the 40, jump 11 feet doesn't mean they'll be more productive then the guy who's a 3star or the guy who runs a 4.9 in the 40 or jump 10 feet. The question is, can this guy play football and is he coach-able?

Word. Too many cats get caught up in raw numbers. Football speed means a lot more to a football player than track speed. I still remember when the Niners drafted Renaldo Nehemiah. Everyone was drooling to see what he would do since he was known to have 4.1 40 speed. My man lasted 3 years in the league because he was Roberto Duran.

 

[BoxingRobes]

My co-worker and I was just talking about how overrated some of these things in the combine are. Between the combines, the Rivals, 247, ESPN rankings, it's getting us caught up in numbers vs. seeing who are football players vs. short and t-shirt guys.

If Jerry Rice or Emmitt Smith were apart of these combines, they would be shot to ****.

Notice this point that was made by Yaworsky regarding Emmitt Smith:
"Smith never ran better than a 4.5 40-yard dash, but it was his ability to change direction on a dime without losing speed that made him so special. Football isn't played on a straight line and that's why it's not a given that a 4.3 40-yard dash will translate to great rushing numbers."

Bill Walsh put his rep on the line to draft a WR from a small school that ran a 4.71 in the 40, yet notice his response:
"I don't see a 4.71 guy, I see a guy who catches everything and is always open."

When I see Chad on the field, I see a guy w/ great closing speed who was always in the back field. I see a guy who was held A LOT, which will be called at the next level. I see a guy who can hold the edge or rush the QB.

The combine got people twisted. Now, don't get me wrong, there's a still good amount of players who show up to the combine that are both work out warriors and football players that live up to their billing. But I no longer just look at what guys put up at the combine.

I remember when Terrell Suggs was looking slow af, and he said, "I got game speed, that's all teams need to know." T Sizzle is HOF bound. Tom Brady, Jordan Howard, Adalius Thomas, TJ Houshmandzadeh, Kyle Williams, Marques Colston off the top of my head...all drafted late, none really impressed at the combine and they all became very successful in the NFL b/c they could play the game of football.

I miss the good ole days of great evaluation vs. relying upon lazy stats. That's why I hold coaches like Jimmy, Butch, Walsh, Cowerd, Belichick, Shula in high esteem.

Just b/c they are a 4star/5star guy or just b/c they run a 4.22 in the 40, jump 11 feet doesn't mean they'll be more productive than the guy who's a 3star or the guy who runs a 4.9 in the 40 or jump 10 feet. The question is, can this guy play football and is he coach-able?

Sports are becoming increasingly analytic. Baseball, its easier. Basketball and Hockey have developed ways to isolate individuals. Football is a much harder proposition...much harder than the aforementioned three due to all of the moving parts.

Trying to find the "formula" to evaluate players in all sports is a necessary movement. What they have done in football, with at least some positions is isolate metrics that help the evaluation process. No, they don't provide a direct, 100% correlation to success, but they increase the odds of success at the position. Your example of Terrell Suggs is an exception (like Calais) not the rule. Its about increasing the odds of a hit with your selection.

 

[brock]

The problem with the Campbell/Thomas comparison is it's only looking at combine numbers, where both were just average. But on field production, there's a huge gap:

Campbell (3 Years) - 83 tackles, 39 for a loss, 19.5 sacks
Thomas (4 years) - 51 tackles, 26 for a loss, 10 sacks

Thomas has been good with flashes of greatness, while Campbell's production was on a different level.

I feel like after the combine, the teams that like him before probably still do. And the teams that didn't or were on the fence about him, weren't given any reason to like him. Just kind of stayed even.

You forget Campbell was very productive in his first 2 years(sophomore year he had 10.5 sacks 20 tfls) meanwhile chad hardly did anything his first 2 years at Miami due to that horrible scheme

 

[Rellyrell]

Sports are becoming increasingly analytic. Baseball, its easier. Basketball and Hockey have developed ways to isolate individuals. Football is a much harder proposition...much harder than the aforementioned three due to all of the moving parts.

Trying to find the "formula" to evaluate players in all sports is a necessary movement. What they have done in football, with at least some positions is isolate metrics that help the evaluation process. No, they don't provide a direct, 100% correlation to success, but they increase the odds of success at the position. Your example of Terrell Suggs is an exception (like Calais) not the rule. Its about increasing the odds of a hit with your selection.

No disagreement with what you are saying, but there’s a reason why an Ed Reed, Deacon Jones, Jerry Rice, Khalil Mack are either HOFers or soon to be HOFers regardless of their workout #’s or rankings out of high school....either you truly know how to play the game or you don’t. I’m not talking about physically; I’m talking about the mental approach and the leadership approach.

Everything has become so analytical, but nothing has changed regarding X’s and O’s. I don’t care about a guy running a 40 in 4.3 secs. How does he look on the field?

Take Kevin White for instance....blew the combine out of water. There were talks of him going before Cooper. Kevin White is “this” close to being out of the NFL. His 40 time meant nothing on the football field b/c his route tree sucked. His IQ sucks. He looked like a 4.8 guy on the field prior the injuries.

Or take D Hest v. Tavon Austin. D Hest looked way fast b/c he understood blocking angles, setting up blocks, and pressing angles and could cut on a dime full speed. Austin is quick, but is, for the most part, a non factor b/c he tries to do back yard crap that won’t work on this level. He tries to use god given talent over understanding the return game at this level. Sometimes his talent wins, but he served a lot of L’s.

All I’m saying is that f the analytics and put on the game film. Put on the worst games v. the best games and see what’s what. The combine has made scouts lazy and u see way more “bust” today and more “hidden gems.” They’re not hidden....they just didn’t wow the work outs.

 

[Calinative]

My co-worker and I was just talking about how overrated some of these things in the combine are. Between the combines, the Rivals, 247, ESPN rankings, it's getting us caught up in numbers vs. seeing who are football players vs. short and t-shirt guys.

If Jerry Rice or Emmitt Smith were apart of these combines, they would be shot to ****.

Notice this point that was made by Yaworsky regarding Emmitt Smith:
"Smith never ran better than a 4.5 40-yard dash, but it was his ability to change direction on a dime without losing speed that made him so special. Football isn't played on a straight line and that's why it's not a given that a 4.3 40-yard dash will translate to great rushing numbers."

Bill Walsh put his rep on the line to draft a WR from a small school that ran a 4.71 in the 40, yet notice his response:
"I don't see a 4.71 guy, I see a guy who catches everything and is always open."

When I see Chad on the field, I see a guy w/ great closing speed who was always in the back field. I see a guy who was held A LOT, which will be called at the next level. I see a guy who can hold the edge or rush the QB.

The combine got people twisted. Now, don't get me wrong, there's a still good amount of players who show up to the combine that are both work out warriors and football players that live up to their billing. But I no longer just look at what guys put up at the combine.

I remember when Terrell Suggs was looking slow af, and he said, "I got game speed, that's all teams need to know." T Sizzle is HOF bound. Tom Brady, Jordan Howard, Adalius Thomas, TJ Houshmandzadeh, Kyle Williams, Marques Colston off the top of my head...all drafted late, none really impressed at the combine and they all became very successful in the NFL b/c they could play the game of football.

I miss the good ole days of great evaluation vs. relying upon lazy stats. That's why I hold coaches like Jimmy, Butch, Walsh, Cowerd, Belichick, Shula in high esteem.

Just b/c they are a 4star/5star guy or just b/c they run a 4.22 in the 40, jump 11 feet doesn't mean they'll be more productive than the guy who's a 3star or the guy who runs a 4.9 in the 40 or jump 10 feet. The question is, can this guy play football and is he coach-able?

the 40 yard dash is an overrated metric for sure. But that doesn't mean it isn't valuable. Secondly the most important metric is the 3-cone drill and the Broad jump. Secondly combine numbers started getting recorded in like 1999, which is why there is a lot of misinformation regarding 40 times for the older players like Jerry Rice. For instance, in a Bill Walsh penned article he says himself Jerry Rice timed 4.59 in the 40. Secondly as we have gotten more technology, the testing conditions (that Walsh mentions) have become much better and more accurate (laser timing, everyone performing in the same indoor testing conditions, etc. Walsh futher says the Vertical Jump is " an excellent measurable that can be applicable to explosion and movement that is so necessary in football." Secondly in todays Combine drills, since the records are kept we have a better understanding of the importance of the drills. This is why now, the 3 cone drill is widely considered the most important drill for most positions, as you run a total of 30 yards and change directions 6 times.

In your example about Terrell Suggs, yes he only ran a 4.84 40 at the combine, but again, for EDGE rushers the 3cone drill and broad jump are more important. 40 and vert are also important, but not as important. And Suggs literally didn't perform anything but the 40 at the combine. And his pro day results are hard to fins, but anything I have found mentions he had like a 33" Vert, but do not mention his 3 Cone time or Broad jump.

Again you need to know what the drills translate to.
- 3Cone drill essentially measures a players bending ability. This is why its so important for EDGE rushers and DBs. It kinda shows how good a guys hips are. Though its not just as simple as the lower the 3 cone the better, you also have to take into account the players height and weight into consideration for this. For instance a 6'7" player running a 7.2s 3 cone has better bend than a 6'3" player running a 6.85s 3 cone...This 3 cone measurement that is so important for the defensive players is less important for RBs
- Broad jump (and Vert jump) essentially show how explosive a player is, which is incredibly important in football. The truly amazing athletes are the ones that do the best in these drills.

 

[Rellyrell]

the 40 yard dash is an overrated metric for sure. But that doesn't mean it isn't valuable. Secondly the most important metric is the 3-cone drill and the Broad jump. Secondly combine numbers started getting recorded in like 1999, which is why there is a lot of misinformation regarding 40 times for the older players like Jerry Rice. For instance, in a Bill Walsh penned article he says himself Jerry Rice timed 4.59 in the 40. Secondly as we have gotten more technology, the testing conditions (that Walsh mentions) have become much better and more accurate (laser timing, everyone performing in the same indoor testing conditions, etc. Walsh futher says the Vertical Jump is " an excellent measurable that can be applicable to explosion and movement that is so necessary in football." Secondly in todays Combine drills, since the records are kept we have a better understanding of the importance of the drills. This is why now, the 3 cone drill is widely considered the most important drill for most positions, as you run a total of 30 yards and change directions 6 times.

In your example about Terrell Suggs, yes he only ran a 4.84 40 at the combine, but again, for EDGE rushers the 3cone drill and broad jump are more important. 40 and vert are also important, but not as important. And Suggs literally didn't perform anything but the 40 at the combine. And his pro day results are hard to fins, but anything I have found mentions he had like a 33" Vert, but do not mention his 3 Cone time or Broad jump.

Again you need to know what the drills translate to.
- 3Cone drill essentially measures a players bending ability. This is why its so important for EDGE rushers and DBs. It kinda shows how good a guys hips are. Though its not just as simple as the lower the 3 cone the better, you also have to take into account the players height and weight into consideration for this. For instance a 6'7" player running a 7.2s 3 cone has better bend than a 6'3" player running a 6.85s 3 cone...This 3 cone measurement that is so important for the defensive players is less important for RBs
- Broad jump (and Vert jump) essentially show how explosive a player is, which is incredibly important in football. The truly amazing athletes are the ones that do the best in these drills.

I agree w/ the 3 cone drill. I'm not discounting the 40 at all. The 40 is still the standard, however b/c of the televising of camps, and how analyst go goo-goo eyes over fast 40's, teams have made big draft mistakes for drafting speedsters vs. football players. All I'm saying is don't just simply go by analytics. A person still has to know how to play the game. How many speedsters have looked hella slow b/c they don't understand angles or how to read cover 2 zone vs. a cover 2 shell? I'll take the 4.6 guy who knows how to use his body and hands and know how to use leverage over the straight line speedster that's a one trick pony.

 

[423Hurricane]

I enjoy watching the combine as much as anyone and agree that I'd much rather have a 4.6 guy with a high football IQ. But let's not discount the fact that the combine is a HUGE 4 day revenue stream for the NFL.

 

[Calinative]

I agree w/ the 3 cone drill. I'm not discounting the 40 at all. The 40 is still the standard, however b/c of the televising of camps, and how analyst go goo-goo eyes over fast 40's, teams have made big draft mistakes for drafting speedsters vs. football players. All I'm saying is don't just simply go by analytics. A person still has to know how to play the game. How many speedsters have looked hella slow b/c they don't understand angles or how to read cover 2 zone vs. a cover 2 shell? I'll take the 4.6 guy who knows how to use his body and hands and know how to use leverage over the straight line speedster that's a one trick pony.

Like most things, using all of one thing and none of the other isn't the best idea. Gotta find that balance. For me I'd say film is more important, but Analytics can be really helpful

I think using analytics to initially eliminate prospects that test VERY poorly or setting up tiers, then using film to rank the already slimmed down group is the best way to go. So basically you wont use the analytics (combine measurments, drills, stats) to determine Khalil Mack is better than Jadeveon Clowney. But those analytics will eliminate certain players from the discussion and possibly create tiers of athlete. Thats how I like to look at it - like a baseline. Then once you've narrowed it down to 5-10 guys at positions you can use the film to determine who you think is best and sort of ignore the rest.

But obviously that works at certain positions. At QB? No. At EDGE? Yes.

 

[Rellyrell]

I enjoy watching the combine as much as anyone and agree that I'd much rather have a 4.6 guy with a high football IQ. But let's not discount the fact that the combine is a HUGE 4 day revenue stream for the NFL.

OH 100! Absolutely! I, too, like to tune in to the combine. Honestly, I'm fascinated w/ these new breed of athletes. It's ridiculous of what they can do on the football field. Regardless, give me the football player. lol.