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Soccer Can Someone Explain This Euro SuperLeague Bruhaha?

Hogan

Ze German.
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
379
FWIW, given the new developments, I have read the comments on how the Super League should be supported. Here are some facts from someone that actually knows a thing or two about soccer.

1. The Super League is a massive scam. It was planned to be a scam, rewarding a percentage of the participating teams and ignoring the rest. If you happened to actually qualify and win it all, you would make less money compared to Real Madrid playing the minimal amount of games. It would have been a bigger scam that the Champions League is right now. In fact, they would have scammed the domestic leagues as well, because, at no point, were teams actually ready to give money to the domestic leagues. It all would have went into the owners pockets.

2. None of the clubs were in bad financial situation because of the pandemic. They were in a bad situation because they spent money beyond any measurement, way above what they were allowed to spend. They all had massive amounts of debt beforehand.

3. It would have killed and removed any sort of competition in football. Its like putting Alabama in every National Title game despite them not being qualified for it. And thats essentially what it was planned to be, a closed league with little to no movement. It would have been boring at some point. People were bored of the Patriots being in the Super Bowl all the time, in the Super League it would have been the same few teams all the time.

4. The current development is that the UK is investigating whether they could introduce a rule into football where at least 51% of the clubs ownership belongs to the club (members). This is designed to lower the amount of money that has been spent.

5. The only people that this has been designed for are people with no proper connection to the sport itself, only for people who support a club that does well. Fun fact is, with the way how the league would have been structured, the same issue that prolongs in soccer right now would have existed in the Super League.

But now, this all looks like it wont happen at all. All of the UK teams have backed out, two chairmen have resigned already and the only teams who will participate are the spanish and italian teams. Who, ironically, are the ones who have the most debt because they dont know what to do with money. Its soccers biggest chance to clean themselves and make their sport much more sustainable and I can only hope that the message has been heard.

Edit: The best also would not have played the best. Manchester United, Arsenal, Tottenham, Inter, AC Milan, even Chelsea... none of these teams are part of "the best". They have been repeatedly hammered in european cups over the past decade. It would have been a collection of teams being led by investment companies, oil suppliers and fucking Stan Kroenke.

Edit 2: Inter and AC Milan are out too. Even the italians with debt can see the scam from a mile away.
 
Last edited:

Empirical Cane

We are what we repeatedly do.
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
10,738
FWIW, given the new developments, I have read the comments on how the Super League should be supported. Here are some facts from someone that actually knows a thing or two about soccer.

1. The Super League is a massive scam. It was planned to be a scam, rewarding a percentage of the participating teams and ignoring the rest. If you happened to actually qualify and win it all, you would make less money compared to Real Madrid playing the minimal amount of games. It would have been a bigger scam that the Champions League is right now. In fact, they would have scammed the domestic leagues as well, because, at no point, were teams actually ready to give money to the domestic leagues. It all would have went into the owners pockets.

2. None of the clubs were in bad financial situation because of the pandemic. They were in a bad situation because they spent money beyond any measurement, way above what they were allowed to spend. They all had massive amounts of debt beforehand.

3. It would have killed and removed any sort of competition in football. Its like putting Alabama in every National Title game despite them not being qualified for it. And thats essentially what it was planned to be, a closed league with little to no movement. It would have been boring at some point. People were bored of the Patriots being in the Super Bowl all the time, in the Super League it would have been the same few teams all the time.

4. The current development is that the UK is investigating whether they could introduce a rule into football where at least 51% of the clubs ownership belongs to the club (members). This is designed to lower the amount of money that has been spent.

5. The only people that this has been designed for are people with no proper connection to the sport itself, only for people who support a club that does well. Fun fact is, with the way how the league would have been structured, the same issue that prolongs in soccer right now would have existed in the Super League.

But now, this all looks like it wont happen at all. All of the UK teams have backed out, two chairmen have resigned already and the only teams who will participate are the spanish and italian teams. Who, ironically, are the ones who have the most debt because they dont know what to do with money. Its soccers biggest chance to clean themselves and make their sport much more sustainable and I can only hope that the message has been heard.

Edit: The best also would not have played the best. Manchester United, Arsenal, Tottenham, Inter, AC Milan, even Chelsea... none of these teams are part of "the best". They have been repeatedly hammered in european cups over the past decade. It would have been a collection of teams being led by investment companies, oil suppliers and fucking Stan Kroenke.

Edit 2: Inter and AC Milan are out too. Even the italians with debt can see the scam from a mile away.
I always enjoyed 1 FCK matches (even though they are a lesser team than the big names). They aren't afraid to light flares and throw them on the field.
 

Roncaneefc

KAGS.
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280
The system of football in Europe means that basically if your local pub team was good enough that over a few years they could theoretically gain promotion to the top leagues. This also means that the top teams if the play bad enough for many years could eventually end up as a "pub team"
For years grass roots football has been funded by revenues generated by the top leagues kind of like trickle down economics.
This changed when the old "first division" became the EPL. At that time 5 teams decided the top flight should keep a higher percentage of the revenue it was a forced "take it or get nothing" deal that the FA (football association) and football league agreed to.
Most of the same top teams and their European counterparts now decided they need more money. This is because in order to keep up they have been spending more than they generate.
Some of them like Spurs are 1billion in debt.So they got together and decided that a league where they couldn't be relegated from would be the solution to more revenue.

Most domestic leagues have rules regarding which competitions you can enter and being in one that directly competes with the league your already in is a violation of the rules.

Most of the teams thought they could compete in the league they were in and also the new league. They found out different.

The super league was a money grab meant to keep the richest teams rich and fook everyone else.

Note all German teams are by law 51% owned by the fans so after votes they wouldn't have joined anyway.

Liverpool and Man united are owned by Americans so they are used to the "franchise" model. Spurs need the money, Arsenal also American owned didn't want to get left behind. Chelsea owned by a Russian oil thief and Man City owned by Abu Dhabi don't need the cash so they were already a wavering commitment.

The 2 biggest Spanish teams have been "government subsidized" in an effort to keep up with the EPL tv rights money. Due to covid and general economic conditions around the world they are desperate for new revenue streams.

The Italian teams were left for dead financially years ago so their joining was not unexpected.

It fell apart because governments were going to legislate against it and league bodies were going to boot the teams from domestic competition.

They would have lost more than they gained.
 

Empirical Cane

We are what we repeatedly do.
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Let me see if I have this right...

In a nutshell:
- Euro soccer club's financial ledgers, across the board, are a mess
- Superleague, conceptually, was attempt to help those members with questionable/little benefit to the rest (as they had some remaining ties through national leagues and national teams)
- Majority of fans took to the streets with pitchforks and did their best French Revo cosplay reenactment
- Superleague founding members, apparantly led by people with same strategic vision as Coke executives who greenlighted "New Coke", cavedu nder the pressure as if one of @Paranos muses was face sitting them
- Several spineless club executives have been sacked/resigned
- As of today, Euro soccer is right back where it started last week

And who says Euros are boring!!???
 

CaneDawgCrew

Sophomore
Joined
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Messages
724
Let me see if I have this right...

In a nutshell:
- Euro soccer club's financial ledgers, across the board, are a mess
- Superleague, conceptually, was attempt to help those members with questionable/little benefit to the rest (as they had some remaining ties through national leagues and national teams)
- Majority of fans took to the streets with pitchforks and did their best French Revo cosplay reenactment
- Superleague founding members, apparantly led by people with same strategic vision as Coke executives who greenlighted "New Coke", cavedu nder the pressure as if one of @Paranos muses was face sitting them
- Several spineless club executives have been sacked/resigned
- As of today, Euro soccer is right back where it started last week

And who says Euros are boring!!???
And to think you started out this thread with can somebody help me out. You are a dang guru brother.

Pitchforks is an understatement. My daughter played very competitively so I followed it closely and picked Liverpool. I can tell you the fans, Klopp, and the Liverpool players all came out against it and there is a good chance these owners may be forced to sell if they can't mend fences. I know one ManU executive resigned. Lot's of solid reasons why Liverpool would have wanted it but...

Example is B&H Albion owner came out and said he wanted Liverpool fined, thrown out, or whatever he ran his mouth about...Brighton and Hove Albion who may be relegated running their mouth when teams like Liverpool are the bread winners. I am sure some concessions will be made to Liverpool and the 5 others. Personally, I would like to see the premier league guaranteed 6 spots, taking away spots from other less competitive leagues...Isn't fair Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea...Always fighting for top 4 when teams like Barca, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern, etc. are guaranteed of making Champions League every year and getting the big dollars that come with it.

I know you probably don't care so I apologize for the long winded response...My wife doesn't let me talk much.
 

Roncaneefc

KAGS.
Joined
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Messages
280
And to think you started out this thread with can somebody help me out. You are a dang guru brother.

Pitchforks is an understatement. My daughter played very competitively so I followed it closely and picked Liverpool. I can tell you the fans, Klopp, and the Liverpool players all came out against it and there is a good chance these owners may be forced to sell if they can't mend fences. I know one ManU executive resigned. Lot's of solid reasons why Liverpool would have wanted it but...

Example is B&H Albion owner came out and said he wanted Liverpool fined, thrown out, or whatever he ran his mouth about...Brighton and Hove Albion who may be relegated running their mouth when teams like Liverpool are the bread winners. I am sure some concessions will be made to Liverpool and the 5 others. Personally, I would like to see the premier league guaranteed 6 spots, taking away spots from other less competitive leagues...Isn't fair Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea...Always fighting for top 4 when teams like Barca, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern, etc. are guaranteed of making Champions League every year and getting the big dollars that come with it.

I know you probably don't care so I apologize for the long winded response...My wife doesn't let me talk much.
First Klopp didn't come out against it. The players said nothing until the fans expressed their anger.
Spurs are 7 the arse are 9th. They won't be getting in this year anyway. Liverpool are evil. They already received a "lifetime" euro ban. Ended up only one year longer than all other innocent English teams. LFC are scum so are all their fans. Bunch of bumbags. As the song goes "always the victims it's never your fault"
 

clg003

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Anywhere the demand isn't dictating the supply there are corrupt people pushing their own get rich scheme.
 

MISTER OWL

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Messages
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And to think you started out this thread with can somebody help me out. You are a dang guru brother.

Pitchforks is an understatement. My daughter played very competitively so I followed it closely and picked Liverpool. I can tell you the fans, Klopp, and the Liverpool players all came out against it and there is a good chance these owners may be forced to sell if they can't mend fences. I know one ManU executive resigned. Lot's of solid reasons why Liverpool would have wanted it but...

Example is B&H Albion owner came out and said he wanted Liverpool fined, thrown out, or whatever he ran his mouth about...Brighton and Hove Albion who may be relegated running their mouth when teams like Liverpool are the bread winners. I am sure some concessions will be made to Liverpool and the 5 others. Personally, I would like to see the premier league guaranteed 6 spots, taking away spots from other less competitive leagues...Isn't fair Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea...Always fighting for top 4 when teams like Barca, Real Madrid, PSG, Bayern, etc. are guaranteed of making Champions League every year and getting the big dollars that come with it.

I know you probably don't care so I apologize for the long winded response...My wife doesn't let me talk much.

Brother, with all due respect...

As far as not being fair for the "SuperLeague" Premier League teams... I'm actually in the same boat as you as it also seems to me that the Premier League is the most competitive league, but...

UEFA uses a coefficient to determine how many teams make it from each league based on performance, not clubs' international marketing budgets and TV contracts. And not only is the Premier League not dominating, they're not even the best performing league historically - La Liga is. Here is the chart for the last ten years and just a few years ago the Prem was third:

Capture uefa coefficient.JPG


Before lobbying for more spots, Premier League teams should at least dominate European football for some length of time, and they have never had a dominating coefficient. Meanwhile there have been points in time where La Liga and Serie A did have dominating coefficients and they never had more than 4 teams given qualifying spots.

As far as Brighton goes - they are 12 points behind Arsenal and 13 points from relegation zone. They are closer to jumping a "SuperLeague" team than they are relegation. Btw, Brighton played Liverpool twice this year. They drew once and then Brighton beat Liverpool. And I guarantee you every Red living in Liverpool respects Tony Bloom a lot more than anyone from FSG.

And as far as the Liverpool breadwinner comment - I think the Premier League television profit-sharing plan is pretty damn fair. They do not have to rely as much on performance as much as their marketing efforts in USA and China. There is a shared base and then teams are compensated based on percentage shown. So Arsenal, who is 8th place gets compensated probably in the top 4 because they are televised more in international markets.

IMO a big takeaway from this is that it is obvious that most British soccer fans want competition with consequence. Regardless of how much money you can borrow to sign big names players, you still have to win. They don't want a season filled with meaningless games catering to Chinese and American markets who demand entertainment over competition. They see their American owners involved with the SuperLeague and immediately point to American pro sports which implements a system that rewards losers. They passionately do not want this. In American professional sports, if you lose, you are given the right to the better prospects. In England, if you lose you are relegated, which is devastating to everyone involved with that club. That consequence just creates a more desirable atmosphere to British fans.
 

CaneDawgCrew

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Messages
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Brother, with all due respect...

As far as not being fair for the "SuperLeague" Premier League teams... I'm actually in the same boat as you as it also seems to me that the Premier League is the most competitive league, but...

UEFA uses a coefficient to determine how many teams make it from each league based on performance, not clubs' international marketing budgets and TV contracts. And not only is the Premier League not dominating, they're not even the best performing league historically - La Liga is. Here is the chart for the last ten years and just a few years ago the Prem was third:

View attachment 145921

Before lobbying for more spots, Premier League teams should at least dominate European football for some length of time, and they have never had a dominating coefficient. Meanwhile there have been points in time where La Liga and Serie A did have dominating coefficients and they never had more than 4 teams given qualifying spots.

As far as Brighton goes - they are 12 points behind Arsenal and 13 points from relegation zone. They are closer to jumping a "SuperLeague" team than they are relegation. Btw, Brighton played Liverpool twice this year. They drew once and then Brighton beat Liverpool. And I guarantee you every Red living in Liverpool respects Tony Bloom a lot more than anyone from FSG.

And as far as the Liverpool breadwinner comment - I think the Premier League television profit-sharing plan is pretty damn fair. They do not have to rely as much on performance as much as their marketing efforts in USA and China. There is a shared base and then teams are compensated based on percentage shown. So Arsenal, who is 8th place gets compensated probably in the top 4 because they are televised more in international markets.

IMO a big takeaway from this is that it is obvious that most British soccer fans want competition with consequence. Regardless of how much money you can borrow to sign big names players, you still have to win. They don't want a season filled with meaningless games catering to Chinese and American markets who demand entertainment over competition. They see their American owners involved with the SuperLeague and immediately point to American pro sports which implements a system that rewards losers. They passionately do not want this. In American professional sports, if you lose, you are given the right to the better prospects. In England, if you lose you are relegated, which is devastating to everyone involved with that club. That consequence just creates a more desirable atmosphere to British fans.
Actually, I think they are 16th and 7 points from safety with a game in hand on Fulham.

Understand the coefficient but going back 15 years:
Spain - Unable to count finals appearances but between (3) teams
England - 11 appearances (5 different teams) - How Man City hasn't made it is baffling
Italy - 6 appearances (3)
Germany - 5 (2) although RB Leipzig has improved
France - uno

City and Chelsea still alive this year in the semi finals so another good year for EPL. Don't quote exacts on numbers it is close but I wear glasses lol!

England has done well and I think with the new deal and they way it is today in a few years both Chelsea and Liverpool would get into CL even if they finish outside top 4 based on past performance.

Yours was a nice read with good info so thanks. FWIW I was dead set against the super league deal but did feel EPL is tougher top to bottom and should get a couple additional spots. College BB has a play in right? For next few years anyhow the top 4 is the golden ticket. Have a good one.
 

CaneDawgCrew

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First Klopp didn't come out against it. The players said nothing until the fans expressed their anger.
Spurs are 7 the arse are 9th. They won't be getting in this year anyway. Liverpool are evil. They already received a "lifetime" euro ban. Ended up only one year longer than all other innocent English teams. LFC are scum so are all their fans. Bunch of bumbags. As the song goes "always the victims it's never your fault"
I don't know why you made me laugh. You are wrong on the song though I believe it is "You'll Never Walk Alone".

Klopp actually came out against it in 2019 I believe. You are into it way more than I am lol but it is almost like you are a bitter blue...The stepchild.

The other thing that cracked me up was the thought of my daughter taking you out and Roncaneefc rolling on the ground like a spanish player screaming for a card, stretcher, cup of water, and for somebody to bring him back his balls (never to be located because weren't there to begin with)

Easy does it Francis.
 

MISTER OWL

Senior
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Messages
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Actually, I think they are 16th and 7 points from safety with a game in hand on Fulham.

Understand the coefficient but going back 15 years:
Spain - Unable to count finals appearances but between (3) teams
England - 11 appearances (5 different teams) - How Man City hasn't made it is baffling
Italy - 6 appearances (3)
Germany - 5 (2) although RB Leipzig has improved
France - uno

City and Chelsea still alive this year in the semi finals so another good year for EPL. Don't quote exacts on numbers it is close but I wear glasses lol!

England has done well and I think with the new deal and they way it is today in a few years both Chelsea and Liverpool would get into CL even if they finish outside top 4 based on past performance.

Yours was a nice read with good info so thanks. FWIW I was dead set against the super league deal but did feel EPL is tougher top to bottom and should get a couple additional spots. College BB has a play in right? For next few years anyhow the top 4 is the golden ticket. Have a good one.
oh yeah, you're right on the points math - lol - sorry, brother

I'm with you that Premier League is more competitive top to bottom. But Champions League is intended to see who the best team in Europe is and I feel that it does a damn good job at it. Another thing to look at would be Europa League winners. If the Prem was so deserving of more CL spots shouldn't they be winning the Europa League the most? Historically, they are well behind La Liga and Serie A . Note there is a Sevilla (La Liga) and some Prem team missing from this table. 7 La Liga titles in last 10 years to 3 Prem titles.

europa.jpg
 

CaneDawgCrew

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oh yeah, you're right on the points math - lol - sorry, brother

I'm with you that Premier League is more competitive top to bottom. But Champions League is intended to see who the best team in Europe is and I feel that it does a damn good job at it. Another thing to look at would be Europa League winners. If the Prem was so deserving of more CL spots shouldn't they be winning the Europa League the most? Historically, they are well behind La Liga and Serie A . Note there is a Sevilla (La Liga) and some Prem team missing from this table. 7 La Liga titles in last 10 years to 3 Prem titles.

View attachment 145924
True. Something to keep in mind though on success in Europe...When you are getting tested week in and week out without the opportunity to rest your starting IX it has an impact on your performance. These other leagues aren't as strong IMO and are guaranteed a CL spot so not only are EPL teams possibly more tired the opponent is well rested and healed. That was just a hypothesis!

I don't know how you are but I am an underdog guy and enjoy when teams like Ajax do well. Gets old seeing same teams each year.eing

Had to edit this...Bayern being dead in the middle on that was funny it must kill them. Manu and Arsenal still in it this year.
 

MISTER OWL

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True. Something to keep in mind though on success in Europe...When you are getting tested week in and week out without the opportunity to rest your starting IX it has an impact on your performance. These other leagues aren't as strong IMO and are guaranteed a CL spot so not only are EPL teams possibly more tired the opponent is well rested and healed. That was just a hypothesis!

I don't know how you are but I am an underdog guy and enjoy when teams like Ajax do well. Gets old seeing same teams each year.eing

Had to edit this...Bayern being dead in the middle on that was funny it must kill them. Manu and Arsenal still in it this year.
Fair enough.

Yeah, honestly felt that Ajax was the best team in Europe two years ago. Their Champions League run was amazing, taking down Real Madrid and Juventus. Heartbreaking loss in the semis
 

Hogan

Ze German.
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This whole coefficient thing isnt official yet. The reform will be introduced in three years and it can be changed, according to the official paper that was released by the UEFA.
 

Roncaneefc

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I don't know why you made me laugh. You are wrong on the song though I believe it is "You'll Never Walk Alone".

Klopp actually came out against it in 2019 I believe. You are into it way more than I am lol but it is almost like you are a bitter blue...The stepchild.

The other thing that cracked me up was the thought of my daughter taking you out and Roncaneefc rolling on the ground like a spanish player screaming for a card, stretcher, cup of water, and for somebody to bring him back his balls (never to be located because weren't there to begin with)

Easy does it Francis.
Yes 2019 blah blah blah but when asked before the Leeds game Klopp waffled and complained about the t-shirts the Leeds team were wearing.
I am quite right on the song though. It's the one other teams sing at liverpool fans. Not the song they stole from Celtic.
Bitter blue is right on. You should learn the actual facts. You can't be the stepchild when you have been around longer. Liverpool are infact the stepchild of EFC.
Hope your daughter is a great player. I love a good crunching tackle. I grew up when nobody wore shin pads and the leather ball weighed 20lbs when wet. I wouldn't be screaming though can't feel me legs cause of diabetes.

Don't take my criticism of liverpool personal. I was born there my hate has been cultivated my whole life.
 

CaneDawgCrew

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Yes 2019 blah blah blah (I was just pointing out facts you left out) but when asked before the Leeds game Klopp waffled and complained about the t-shirts the Leeds team were wearing (and be honest if Klopp came calling as your manager you would chit yourself in joy).
I am quite right on the song though. It's the one other teams sing at liverpool fans. Not the song they stole from Celtic.
Bitter blue is right on. You should learn the actual facts. You can't be the stepchild when you have been around longer. Liverpool are infact the stepchild of EFC (It is just a saying for the kid in the family not very popular...Not based on age but maybe no red heads in England?).
Hope your daughter is a great player. I love a good crunching tackle. I grew up when nobody wore shin pads and the leather ball weighed 20lbs when wet. I wouldn't be screaming though can't feel me legs cause of diabetes.

Don't take my criticism of liverpool personal. I was born there my hate has been cultivated my whole life.
He never waffled and the players weren't happy...The T-shirts were bush league as even as a blue you must admit that pointing out the fact things must be earned to the 19 time league winners and 6 time European winners is ridiculous. Their level preaching to Salah or Mane is a joke although I know they were more than likely directing it toward the owners.

Glad it is over. I hope they move on 51% ownership of all teams in England to the fans. The Green Bay Packers have a similar model and that way there is at least some kind of transparent process should the owners decide to try and do something.

By the way...Glad we don't play you anymore perhaps Liverpool can leave with all of their limbs attached!

Liverpool criticism personally? Not a chance you being from there I get it but you got a little crazy with the generalization that all the Liverpool fans are scum. I mean I know I am scum but there has got to be 1 or 2 decent fellas out there!
 
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