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Butch On 790 Last Night

3FW said:
You don't have to give me a recap of Mckinnie. I saw every down he ever played at the U. I didn't say Flowers was as good as McKinnie, I said he was a decent sub. If Flowers stays here all 4 years, he's very likely a 1st round pick. To say that's he's not in his universe is just a poor evaluation on your part.
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You're comparing one of the best LTs to ever play college football to a kid nobody outside of Miami could name.

Apparently you needed a refresher course on just how much of a dominant force McKinnie was.
 
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OP during interview:
fap-fap-fap.gif


OP after interview was over:
http://anongallery.org/img/5313/south-park-randy-*********ion.jpg
 
Someone posted a couple of years ago that Butch was considering canning Kehoe, but then he left for the NFL. Don't know if it's true, but I believe it was one of the better posters at the time (can't remember who it was though)...

Does anyone know if there's any truth to this?
 
It's both lines. We have gone backwards on the OL under Golden, no doubt about it.
 
Thing Ive noticed about us is that our OLs have gotten progressively bigger and bigger since Butch's day. Butch used to bring in guys that were in the 260--270 range and then build them up to around 290-300. Guys like Carey and McKinney were the exception rather than the rule. They were much more agile and seemed to handle pass pro and run blocking better. Towards the end, and then into Coker's tenure, our OL started getting bigger and bigger across the board. Now we seem to exclusively recruit lumbering giants that come in here huge, and leave even bigger, but they are slow and not very agile.

I have said since Golden was hired that bringing Keyquote back was a mistake. I think the game has LONG since passed him by, his recruiting has been horrific for YEARS, and it was one of the reasons he was fired the first time, and the OL has never excelled since he's been back. Last year we should have had one of the best OLs in all of CFB, and they were average at best IMO. This year looks to be significantly worse, and that right side of the line is a disaster.
 
Kehoe got a lot of undeserved credit for those lines in Butch's era, but that was a lot of Butch. Butch took a LOT of interest in his OL and DL. If there was one thing Butch was heavily involved in, it was OL and DL recruiting. Butch easily deserves a good share, if not half the credit for his OLs. I think its clear to see how fast those units went down hill once he left, and Kehoe was left to his own devices.
 
jkaz1 said:
Someone posted a couple of years ago that Butch was considering canning Kehoe, but then he left for the NFL. Don't know if it's true, but I believe it was one of the better posters at the time (can't remember who it was though)...

Does anyone know if there's any truth to this?
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Don't know. But, if so just makes me a bigger fan of Butch's evaluation of coaches
 
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DMoney said:
Our offensive line has been the least of our problems.

Our sack percentage over the past two years has been very solid (31st and 32nd, higher than Alabama and Wisconsin). Our yards per rush attempt has been a little above average nationally (48th and 51st), and it's been elite when Duke has been running the ball. Our rushing yards per game are in the lower half, but that has more to do with the playcalling. It has not been a Top 10 unit or anything like that, but easily one of the better groups in the conference.

The two inexperienced starters on the right side had a rough first game in Louisville, but the real problem was numbers. We did not adjust to Louisville stacking the box.
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I didn't get to see last weeks game, but I would say the right side of the line was a little more of an issue than just a rough game.

I agree that playcalling and not making adjustments were bigger issues, but the OL's inability to protect was likely the primary reason we went into a shell offensively. Anyway you slice coaching and play calling remain huge question marks and until changes are made we will continue to under perform.
 
DMoney said:
Our offensive line has been the least of our problems.

Our sack percentage over the past two years has been very solid (31st and 32nd, higher than Alabama and Wisconsin). Our yards per rush attempt has been a little above average nationally (48th and 51st), and it's been elite when Duke has been running the ball. Our rushing yards per game are in the lower half, but that has more to do with the playcalling. It has not been a Top 10 unit or anything like that, but easily one of the better groups in the conference.

The two inexperienced starters on the right side had a rough first game in Louisville, but the real problem was numbers. We did not adjust to Louisville stacking the box.
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My opinion is that those numbers still indicate that the coaching has failed the level of talent we've had on the OL. Last year's OL had 4 likely NFL OL on it that were all experienced at the time. 2 rookies that were seniors last year are now starting in the NFL. No reason for last year's OL to be short of elite.
 
I disagree with D$.

Put on tape of last year's games vs FSU, UF, VT, and LOU - good defensive fronts manhandled our OL. It looked like a JV vs Varsity scrimmage.

It's hard for the offense to take the next step or be a powerful unit when good defenses rag doll em.
 
duke got hurt because our line got manhandled then they sat their and didnt even defend him
 
WhatTheHell said:
3FW said:
You don't have to give me a recap of Mckinnie. I saw every down he ever played at the U. I didn't say Flowers was as good as McKinnie, I said he was a decent sub. If Flowers stays here all 4 years, he's very likely a 1st round pick. To say that's he's not in his universe is just a poor evaluation on your part.
Click to expand...

You're comparing one of the best LTs to ever play college football to a kid nobody outside of Miami could name.

Apparently you needed a refresher course on just how much of a dominant force McKinnie was.
Click to expand...

We disagree, not like I called you a moron. Flowers is a tremendous LT for a kid just starting his 3rd year.
 
WhatTheHysteria above is correct on the OL. I was not impressed with them last year either. I understand D$s point that there were bigger issues, but for a unit that should have been the strength of the team, they were very underwhelming. Sure some of that can be laid at Coley's feet and the playcalling, but there were just many times they underperformed in pass protection, or in the running game. Even against pedestrian DLs.
 
DMoney said:
Our offensive line has been the least of our problems.

Our sack percentage over the past two years has been very solid (31st and 32nd, higher than Alabama and Wisconsin). Our yards per rush attempt has been a little above average nationally (48th and 51st), and it's been elite when Duke has been running the ball. Our rushing yards per game are in the lower half, but that has more to do with the playcalling. It has not been a Top 10 unit or anything like that, but easily one of the better groups in the conference.

The two inexperienced starters on the right side had a rough first game in Louisville, but the real problem was numbers. We did not adjust to Louisville stacking the box.
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sack rate is not 100% attributed to the O line quality either though, a lot of that lies in the quarterback and his ability to move, or how long he holds the ball. see: alabama having a higher sack rate.

of those stats, yards per rush is really the only good indicator. and that is not very impressive, that is middle of the pack.

we obviously don't have a total **** o line, but it has been over valued when the the weakness of the unit has seemed glaring. that is across the board too, we have people here talking about flowers as a high first round pick at times. the dude isn't even all conference as of yet.
 
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3FW said:
WhatTheHell said:
3FW said:
You don't have to give me a recap of Mckinnie. I saw every down he ever played at the U. I didn't say Flowers was as good as McKinnie, I said he was a decent sub. If Flowers stays here all 4 years, he's very likely a 1st round pick. To say that's he's not in his universe is just a poor evaluation on your part.
Click to expand...

You're comparing one of the best LTs to ever play college football to a kid nobody outside of Miami could name.

Apparently you needed a refresher course on just how much of a dominant force McKinnie was.
Click to expand...



We disagree, not like I called you a moron. Flowers is a tremendous LT for a kid just starting his 3rd year.
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Flowers has the skill set to be a very high NFL draft pick. I haven't witnessed him play like that on a consistent basis to this point in his career though.
 
Canesfan1899 said:
3FW said:
WhatTheHell said:
3FW said:
You don't have to give me a recap of Mckinnie. I saw every down he ever played at the U. I didn't say Flowers was as good as McKinnie, I said he was a decent sub. If Flowers stays here all 4 years, he's very likely a 1st round pick. To say that's he's not in his universe is just a poor evaluation on your part.
Click to expand...

You're comparing one of the best LTs to ever play college football to a kid nobody outside of Miami could name.

Apparently you needed a refresher course on just how much of a dominant force McKinnie was.
Click to expand...



We disagree, not like I called you a moron. Flowers is a tremendous LT for a kid just starting his 3rd year.
Click to expand...

Flowers has the skill set to be a very high NFL draft pick. I haven't witnessed him play like that on a consistent basis to this point in his career though.
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I agree, and generally that comes in your 3rd-5th year of play. Interesting to see if he takes that next step.
 
I am with D$ on this... When we ran the right plays (UNC) they were road graders... These guys are ok, not 2001 but guys you can win with. We have the "jimmies and joes" for once.... Its about our OC calling plays that fit their style, and keeping the same group together long enough to allow them to gel, and figure out their style.... Let alone, plays that play to the RB's running style, Duke is a slasher who see the hole, not a cruise behind the OL and find a hole Barry Sanders type... he's a one cut and get up field type, who sees running lanes most don't in the open field. Just my .02 though
 
DMoney said:
Our offensive line has been the least of our problems.

Our sack percentage over the past two years has been very solid (31st and 32nd, higher than Alabama and Wisconsin). Our yards per rush attempt has been a little above average nationally (48th and 51st), and it's been elite when Duke has been running the ball. Our rushing yards per game are in the lower half, but that has more to do with the playcalling. It has not been a Top 10 unit or anything like that, but easily one of the better groups in the conference.

The two inexperienced starters on the right side had a rough first game in Louisville, but the real problem was numbers. We did not adjust to Louisville stacking the box.
Click to expand...

I usually agree with you D, but cant do it this time. I will say in past couple of seasons with stoutland guys we have pass pro pretty well. But when we need to run the ball we cant do it against anybody worth a lick. Not sure if you got the numbers but pull up any decent opponent and we probably couldnt run on them with or without Duke. We sucked running the ball and the more Kehoe specials that get intergrated into line as seasons pass I expect the pass pro to disappear also.

Oline seems to be trending down and I am not surprised.




As for comment about Flowers and Mckinnie, Flowers is a good player and can probably go in second to first round with great season but Mckinnie was a generational player, dude barely gave up a sack his senior year and was a brick wall. Guys like Freeny (a HOF) were stoned and could not touch Dorsey because Mckinnie had it on lock. Dude is literally a UM legend and should be treated as such. Flowers has to earn to be in same conversation, lets atleast wait til end of season to compare
 
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