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Butch Davis

db305 said:
i never said that coker was an elite recruiter, but he was hauling in talent on the coattails of 01 and 02 for a few years (and subsequently failed to develop it). i'm countering the point that all there is to winning is gathering talent because coker had the talent there during his stint.
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Ok, agree, I should've add developed to the stacking chips point. But gathering talent is a big part. You can argue the same about Mike Leach. Everyone considers him to be a great coach but he'll never win big with 2-3 stars.
 
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duke4heisman said:
I agree and I'm adding that elite coaches can do all 3. Those all outweigh a few decisions on game day, that still don't change what that properly evaluated and developed talent does on particular plays. They win championships.
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someone forgot to give kirby that memo, because he's proof that actual coaching matters when the talent is similar. and even though it's a totally different game between the pros and college, belichick shows that to a more extreme extent because outside of brady, gronk, and gilmore, there are no elite players on the roster and they still win titles.

if you gave saban and davis equal talent and had them play a game, the smart money is on saban 10 times out of 10.
 
who said:
Ok, agree, I should've add developed to the stacking chips point. But gathering talent is a big part. You can argue the same about Mike Leach. Everyone considers him to be a great coach but he'll never win big with 2-3 stars.
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mike leach just went 11-2 with a roster full of rejects because no one with nfl dreams wants to spend 3-4 years in pullman ******* washington. before that he won at texas' other-other-other d1 school that kids only go to because they didn't get a chance with the longhorns or aggies, but don't want to leave the state. he's a great coach, not an elite coach.
 
db305 said:
someone forgot to give kirby that memo, because he's proof that actual coaching matters when the talent is similar. and even though it's a totally different game between the pros and college, belichick shows that to a more extreme extent because outside of brady, gronk, and gilmore, there are no elite players on the roster and they still win titles.

if you gave saban and davis equal talent and had them play a game, the smart money is on saban 10 times out of 10.
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Lulz no way, I was actually going to compare Coker to Smart. Butch developed Hall of Famers. Saban juices up recruiting stars that flop in the league. LOL at 10 out of 10 times. Butch had 1st round pick backing up 1st round pick. Ed Reed with Sean T as a backup. Portis with Mcgahee and Gore. TE, LB, Dl, everywhere dude. Butch stacked major chips
 
CFLCane said:
Just recruited the #9 ranked class in the CUSA and 90th ranked overall. #buildingadynasty #stillgotit #retirementjob #tommybahamashirts #palmbeachshuffleboardchampion #NoP5coachingoffers
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I would expect nothing less. He'll do well.
 
db305 said:
serious question. what about butch davis says "elite head coach" to you? elite talent evaluation and development, sure. but his actual coaching on game day leaves a lot to be desired. you're not an elite coach unless you can do both...
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I don't disagree...and I respectfully disagree.

Every head coach has strengths and weaknesses--and its those combinations thereof that make the overall leader. Perhaps BD's strength is talent evaluation AND recruiting whereas on game day he defers more to the stand alone OC/DC (its their job tactically...if HC gets involved something has gone wrong). With that said, he won enough at Miami to put them on the cusp of greatness. Browns not so much, but I'd argue better than Saban with the Fins. Carroll, last I checked ws fired from two NFL franchises before landing at USC--and the Trojan faithful weren't exactly thrilled until the wins started to rack up. Exactly how did he leave the program? About the same as Erickson when he left Coral Gables--and what job HASN'T he been fired from since?

There is no question BD ws elite at Miami overall. I happen to think when at Coral Gables, he is lightning in a bottle--other places a 9v battery.

Lets put Saban at University of Wyoming and see how many natty trophies they hoist over the next 10 years.
 
db305 said:
last i checked, butch was in cleveland in 2001. coker may have bumbled his way to a natty that year, but he still made decisions on the field (which isn't exactly butch's strength).

double digit championships? yeah, ok. he doesn't belong in the same conversation as saban, and that ******* has 5 in 12 years at bama. no way in **** davis gets 6 rings as head coach here.
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What decisions did Coker have to make....how many times to clap. I swear Coker is Jason Garrets father
 
db305 said:
nice way to ignore the point. this isn't about saban. this is about butch davis being a great recruiter/developer and a mediocre gameday coach whose career high point is a sugar bowl win against the gators almost 20 years ago, and you insinuating that somehow he would've won at least 6 titles between 2001 and now.
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It's only a hypothesis now. Have to accept the fact someone other than Miami has done a remarkable feat that probably will never be repeated.
 
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who said:
Butch ONCE produceD Hall of Famers BUT NO LONGER DOES, FINISHING 9th IN RECRUITING IN A LAME CONFERENCE THREE YEARS IN. Last one to bring the U a natty (which he would have enjoyed the fruits of his labor if the admin didn't fvck around with his contract)
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FIFY
 
Liberty City El said:
FAU, Marshall, North Texas, Southern Miss, UAB, Midd Tenn St & LA Tech all had better classes than FIU.

UAB won the C-USA last year vs Midd Tenn St & that's after UAB was out of Football for 2 seasons.

Lane Kiffin won the C-USA in his first season at FAU, yall Tamiami Panthers got some catching up to do.
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Apparently some people on here don’t get that the ninth rated class in C USA is really really bad when you’re based in Miami. Especially for a guy that is supposed to be a recruiting God.

Butch Muthafukkin Davis, y’all

Players notified.
 
db305 said:
last i checked, butch was in cleveland in 2001. coker may have bumbled his way to a natty that year, but he still made decisions on the field (which isn't exactly butch's strength).

double digit championships? yeah, ok. he doesn't belong in the same conversation as saban, and that ******* has 5 in 12 years at bama. no way in **** davis gets 6 rings as head coach here.
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Ehhhh we go back to back for sure...

03 is a maybe that defense was special and maybe butch finds a better Brock Berlin...

Maybe we cool for a bit while reloading... but moving to the ACC in the coastal stacking chips we would have dominated the conference early and been fighting for nattys consistently
 
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A few things...because context is missing here. Shocking, I know.

He had a small class.

On average, he had the #4 class in CUSA...the difference between the #1 and #4 team in CUSA is like .6 points. Between #2 and #4 is like .17 points. It ain't that serious. Its not like 247 or any of the services put a modicum of effort in the star rating accuracy of Group of 5 recruits.

Last year, he had the #1 class, FWIW.
 
We’ve got a strong Butch contingent on CIS. Most were ****ed about the Manny Diaz hired because he lacked the “experience” that they’d like to see.
 
BoxingRobes said:
A few things...because context is missing here. Shocking, I know.

He had a small class.

On average, he had the #4 class in CUSA...the difference between the #1 and #4 team in CUSA is like .6 points. Between #2 and #4 is like .17 points. It ain't that serious. Its not like 247 or any of the services put a modicum of effort in the star rating accuracy of Group of 5 recruits.

Last year, he had the #1 class, FWIW.
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The problem is these pups just don't know s*** from strawberries.

Their mommas powdered the bottoms after their baths until they left home - they were told how smart they were, and are convinced they actually know Jack ****.

Keep in mind - anything over ten years ago - is way beyond their comprehension - that's how long ago most of them were still crapping their nappies.
 
Empirical Cane said:
How many of Butch's recruited talent won a natty?

How many MSU players from the Saban era?

My point was, in my opinion, "elite HC coach" = right time + right place + right staff
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Butch is the GOAT evaluator ever. Anyone who says orherwise is an offense to humanity. He proved it in the ‘80s, 90’ into ,’00, at UM and in Dallas.

Shut up with that right place right time stuff. He REBUILT it.
 
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